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Waco rising!

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26 comments

  • spanielsells
    quote:"He'll portray us as deceived and put us down and say David Koresh was the devil," said Clive Doyle, who survived the fire and lived at the site until leaving last year because of conflicts with Pace.

    I won't say that Koresh was the devil, but the rest of the statement is right-on.
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  • chollagardens
    Pace estimates that the project will take years -

    and several million dollars in donations

    - to complete, partly because the property lacks running water and a septic system.

    [:o)]..or auction off pieces of the burned buildings and/or memorial on eBay[:o)]
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  • ObiWan
    Seems like Koresh was a smarter man....he didn't need millions to build a "fortress" as the US Govt called it along with the media.


    ...but was killed over a $200 tax.


    I think people living in a commune is better than individualism.....but that's my American Indian blood talking. ....This consumerism govt wants everyone segregated to keep govt revenue up to support global control.

    And we all see how far the American Indians, and the Waco thing panned out.......consumerism or DIE.
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  • He Dog
    quote:Originally posted by HobbyGuy
    Just another cretin using the bible for self-promotion. [}:)][V] He should consider spending his time working with battered women, the needy, or the homeless. [;)]



    in some far distant country.
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  • spryor
    "..A 10-month independent investigation concluded in 2000 that Koresh was solely to blame..."

    Wonder just how "independent" this investigtion was, or what role
    the gubment played..?..hmmm
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  • 11b6r
    Freely admit there is a LOT I don't know. Have yet to see ONE unregistered full auto, or ONE anti-tank weapon, or ONE explsoive device that was possessed by the folks at the Branch. did i miss something?
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  • warriorsfan
    quote:Originally posted by 11b6r
    Freely admit there is a LOT I don't know. Have yet to see ONE unregistered full auto, or ONE anti-tank weapon, or ONE explsoive device that was possessed by the folks at the Branch. did i miss something?


    They had modified a few semi-autos to fire fully-auto. The ATF got involved in the first place after the other residents in the area reported hearing fully-automatic weapons fire on the Branch Davidain property.

    And it amazes me that people here on gunbroker to this day still insist that Koresh was not a pedophile, even though he made religious videos in which he is shown alongside his 12 and 13-year old "child brides" who claim that Koresh has fathered children by them. He was a sicko pedophile cult leader. The only innocent people who died at Waco were the children, the adults all got what they deserved for letting that sick f**k rape their children in the name of God. DNA tests performed on the bodies after the siege confirmed that Koresh did indeed father children with several of the underage girls, including the 14-year old sister of one of his "legal aged" wives.
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  • salzo
    quote:Originally posted by warriorsfan


    They had modified a few semi-autos to fire fully-auto. The ATF got involved in the first place after the other residents in the area reported hearing fully-automatic weapons fire on the Branch Davidain property.

    And it amazes me that people here on gunbroker to this day still insist that Koresh was not a pedophile, even though he made religious videos in which he is shown alongside his 12 and 13-year old "child brides" who claim that Koresh has fathered children by them. He was a sicko pedophile cult leader. The only innocent people who died at Waco were the children, the adults all got what they deserved for letting that sick f**k rape their children in the name of God. DNA tests performed on the bodies after the siege confirmed that Koresh did indeed father children with several of the underage girls, including the 14-year old sister of one of his "legal aged" wives.




    What a jackass.
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  • ObiWan
    How come ATF ain't burnin' down Catholic Churchs for it's preachers....reverends...whatever pokin little boys in the backside?

    Ain't that use of an assault weapon??[:p]
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  • Colt Super
    Nice shot at trying to misdirect the issue.

    The American government killed dozens of American citizens, including women and children, because of the Davidians religious beliefs.

    And if you don't think it could happen to you, because of your beliefs, you are gazing through a dense fog.

    Doug
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  • warriorsfan
    quote:Originally posted by Doug Wilson
    Nice shot at trying to misdirect the issue.

    The American government killed dozens of American citizens, including women and children, because of the Davidians religious beliefs.

    And if you don't think it could happen to you, because of your beliefs, you are gazing through a dense fog.

    Doug


    If your "religious" beliefs include procreating with as many 13-year old girls as you can get your hands on, then I would say that that the government has a reason to come after you. I'm sorry, but child rape is not a protected religious custom under the First Amendment. Would you let your 13-year old daughter become the child bride of someone like David Koresh? Why not? By your own admission, he wasn't doing anything wrong. I guess we should just respect his religious beliefs, even if that included having a harem of underage girls.

    And if it really was the "evil" FBI versus the poor innocent religious group, why did the Branch Davidians not release all of the children to safety? They kept those kids as human shields, nothing more. And let's not forget that Koresh and the FBI brokered a deal for a peaceful surrender and Koresh BROKE it. He was nothing but another Jim Jones, when he knew that his little sick cult society was going to end, he decided that he was going to take as many people as he could down with him.
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  • moonshine
    Gee sounds like another cult!
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  • Colt Super
    Warriorsfan -

    Your points are well taken. I have never seen or heard any independent - that is non-government or non-media - substantiation that those things were true. If they were, he deserved to die, and I would have happily pulled the trigger on him. The women and children did not deserve the death penalty for being mislead.

    The black-suited, jump-booted feds could have captured him without the deaths of those innocents.

    I am always willing to look at evidence that proves me incorrect, and always willing to revise my opinion, if it is.

    Doug
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  • gruntled
    There was absolutely no reason for the raid. They could have taken Koresh when he was off the compound. They were just grandstanding for the photo ops & look what it cost. Stupid, stupid, stupid.
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  • Colt Super
    That is what my study of the incident has led me to believe, also.

    Doug
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  • salzo
    quote:Originally posted by warriorsfan
    I'm sorry, but child rape is not a protected religious custom under the First Amendment. Would you let your 13-year old daughter become the child bride of someone like David Koresh? Why not? By your own


    Actually,the parents of those girls were aware of what Koresh was doing.
    The local officials investigated rape and child abuse allegations, and they concluded that charges were not warranted. We have this rule of law thing in this country, at leastt, we pretend we do. The law investigated, the law decided they could not bring a case against Koresh. The rule of law also leaves issues of child abuse for the local governments to investigate. The rule of law PROHIBITS THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT from getting involved with such issues. The rule of law went out the window, when the feds decided to invade the Davidians home, and claimed they did so because of child abuse allegations. Child abuse is none of the feds business.
    By law, the federal government acted unlawfully-but that is OK, because the federal government knows that the masses are brainwashed, and will excuse or ignore the governments illegal activity-all that is required is for them to come up with a good reason, like uhhh child abuse, and the masses will not only excuse, but cheer the illegal activities of the federal government(see Warriors fans comment-typical of the brainwashed).
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  • spryor
    quote:Originally posted by warriorsfan
    quote:Originally posted by 11b6r
    Freely admit there is a LOT I don't know. Have yet to see ONE unregistered full auto, or ONE anti-tank weapon, or ONE explsoive device that was possessed by the folks at the Branch. did i miss something?


    They had modified a few semi-autos to fire fully-auto. The ATF got involved in the first place after the other residents in the area reported hearing fully-automatic weapons fire on the Branch Davidain property.
    Wonder how much of that could've simply been bump firing.
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  • warriorsfan
    quote:Originally posted by Doug Wilson
    Warriorsfan -

    Your points are well taken. I have never seen or heard any independent - that is non-government or non-media - substantiation that those things were true. If they were, he deserved to die, and I would have happily pulled the trigger on him. The women and children did not deserve the death penalty for being mislead.

    The black-suited, jump-booted feds could have captured him without the deaths of those innocents.

    I am always willing to look at evidence that proves me incorrect, and always willing to revise my opinion, if it is.

    Doug


    Here's what I think, and this is just my personal opinion. Koresh has a Messiah complex, he though he WAS Jesus Christ. He proclaimed that he was "the Son of God, the Lamb who could open the Seven seals" (that is a direct quote). He also claimed that he was entitled to 140 wives based on his interpretation of the Song of Solomon in the Bible.

    So in-keeping with his belief that he was Jesus Christ or at the very least, a Christ-like figure, he would have needed to "martyr" himself like Jesus did and in a similar fashion. He needed to die at the hands of the Romans, or in this case, the U.S. government. He wanted to become a martyr, and I think he chose this massive "suicide by cop" approach where he wanted himself and his followers to be killed by the government. He took deliberate steps to provoke the FBI and ATF. His followers killed four ATF agents during the initial raid. During the siege, Koresh made a deal with the FBI to surrender. When the FBI kept up their end of the bargain by releaseing one of his propaganda tapes to the media, Koresh reneged on the deal by claiming that "God told him to." He made no effort to peacefully end the situation, he was going to wait and wait and wait until the FBI were FORCED to come get him. He knew they wouldn't wait forever. He wanted to go out in a blaze of glory, in keeping with his Messiah complex, he wanted to become a martyr.
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  • Colt Super
    I can single-pull the trigger of an AR, Mini, 742, 66, Hi-Power, and some other stuff, so fast, that if you aren't looking at me, you can't tell it is not full-auto fire.

    And, there is at least one guy here on the forum that has seen me do it, on many occassions.

    Doug
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  • salzo
    quote:Originally posted by warriorsfan
    [

    Here's what I think, and this is just my personal opinion. Koresh has a Messiah complex, he though he WAS Jesus Christ. He proclaimed that he was "the Son of God, the Lamb who could open the Seven seals" (that is a direct quote). He also claimed that he was entitled to 140 wives based on his interpretation of the Song of Solomon in the Bible.

    So in-keeping with his belief that he was Jesus Christ or at the very least, a Christ-like figure, he would have needed to "martyr" himself like Jesus did and in a similar fashion. He needed to die at the hands of the Romans, or in this case, the U.S. government. He wanted to become a martyr, and I think he chose this massive "suicide by cop" approach where he wanted himself and his followers to be killed by the government. He took deliberate steps to provoke the FBI and ATF. His followers killed four ATF agents during the initial raid. During the siege, Koresh made a deal with the FBI to surrender. When the FBI kept up their end of the bargain by releaseing one of his propaganda tapes to the media, Koresh reneged on the deal by claiming that "God told him to." He made no effort to peacefully end the situation, he was going to wait and wait and wait until the FBI were FORCED to come get him. He knew they wouldn't wait forever. He wanted to go out in a blaze of glory, in keeping with his Messiah complex, he wanted to become a martyr.


    Brainwashed. You should make propaganda films for the government.
    Ignore evidence, spin a good yarn.
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  • Colt Super
    I don't really think he has been brainwashed - just that he listened/watched the media, without looking further.

    If you want to know what really happened, that info is available at your Public Library - I sure wouldn't recommend the internet as a source.

    Doug
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  • EhlerDave
    Wow I am amazed to see this arugument... If your information comes from the "media" you are brainwashed.... if your information comes from "bubba the local bar drunk" then it is true....

    Let me ask who has real information? who was there? who has any proof of anything?

    Now come on lets see it... to many people on here spitting out facts that are just more "propaganda" for both points of veiw.

    I know people died, but you must ask why.... in 51 days why did they keep the kids inside? I have heard they were used as sheilds, well from my point of view that seems about right.

    Now I wont argue that Big Brother overstepped it boundries.

    Now all you folks with all the facts can anyone tell me why he changed his name?
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  • Colt Super
    He was on the run from Billy the Kid, according to msnbc.

    Doug
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  • EhlerDave
    quote:Originally posted by Doug Wilson
    He was on the run from Billy the Kid, according to msnbc.

    Doug


    Even if YOU believe the meida hype about Billy being dead I dont... He is old and slow .... not hard to outrun any more...[:D]
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  • Colt Super
    Can't outrun a .45 Colt.

    Doug
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  • mateomasfeo
    Damn! I was hoping Waco had gotten some new resturants!
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