Israeli guns
What is it about Israel and their ability to design some really great looking guns? The Uzi, Galil, Tavor, Hezi...
And why did George HW Bush have to sign that damned import ban?
I WANT A TAVOR AND I WANT ONE NOW!!!!!!!
And why did George HW Bush have to sign that damned import ban?
I WANT A TAVOR AND I WANT ONE NOW!!!!!!!
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DWS,
And you're a know-nothing old woman.0 -
EMM, I agree with you. The Galil/Tavor/Uzi (regardless of who designed them or how original they are) have a very spartan look that is definitely pleasing.
I especially like the Galil. The hard, utilitarian lines of the gas tube and receiver are brilliantly contrasted with the familiar and comforting form of the handguard. Its like a piece of Swedish furniture, except it shoots bullets.0 -
quote:Originally posted by DancesWithSheep
Read up on the deal with Valmet for the Galil and where the TAVOR design was borrowed from.
I've read a lot about the Valmet and Galil. Guess what? They're different guns. While prototypes and first runs used Valmet receivers, the Galil in fact has several, but important differences in the barrel, receiver, bolt, and manufacture.
If you are capable, read about it here. Or you can have a literate relative (assuming you have any) read it for you.
http://www.remtek.com/arms/imi/galil/galil.htm
As for the Tavor, it "borrows" the bullpup concept from prior bullpups, nothing more beyond the fundamentals of firearms design.
So much for your know-it-all idiocy.0 -
quote:Originally posted by ElMuertoMonkey
What is it about Israel and their ability to design some really great looking guns?
quote:Originally posted by MosinNagantDisciple
The Galil/Tavor/Uzi (regardless of who designed them...).
Hilarious.0 -
MND,
The civvie Tavor that Barrett was about to produce before the deal feel through was even cooler-looking than the one the IDF is getting. It had a more rounded forearm guard and no handle guard.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Ba Sardo
I've read a lot about the Valmet and Galil.
Sure. Like five minutes ago. Are your lips tired?0 -
Wow... DWS is so sharp it took him 6 minutes to respond twice to the same post!
What's the matter? Didn't have that clever thought the first time 'round?0 -
EMM,
What happened to the Barrett deal? Is it going to happen or are the dreams of a domestically produced Tavor just that?0 -
The only response I got from the IMI guy was that the deal was off.[:(] 0 -
quote:Originally posted by ElMuertoMonkey
Wow... DWS is so sharp it took him 6 minutes to respond twice to the same post!
What same post was that? Is your reading deficit really that bad? If so, stamp your foot twice.0 -
DWS,
Oh, now you want proof?
Provide some of your own and then we'll talk. There's a good boy.0 -
I don't like bullpups, but if I got one that would be it. looks pretty tough.
seeing what they did with the Tavor, I think if they took the XM-8 and let the israelis work it over, and fixed the sucky optics platform, you'd have the cat's meow.0 -
Looks like this went from a semi-intelligent post to a worthless name-calling session. 0 -
Not knowing 1/2 of what anyone of you guys or gals know. I do konw that that arguement above was only for count credit. Sort of correcting someones spelling( if you know what they mean why say anything)? Might be a bunch of english teachers out there, but then why can't Jhonny read or write?[:0][:0] 0 -
quote:Originally posted by buschmaster
I don't like bullpups, but if I got one that would be it. looks pretty tough.
seeing what they did with the Tavor, I think if they took the XM-8 and let the israelis work it over, and fixed the sucky optics platform, you'd have the cat's meow.
Never having handled an XM-8, I'll take your word for it that the optics weren't that great. Personally, I think it looked a little too "Starship Troopers" without enough of a diffference from the M16/M4 to justify its adoption.
Spaniel,
What do you think about Israeli firearms? Good, bad, indifferent?0 -
Now if the Tavor came in a 308. [:p] 0 -
Tavor in .308?
Why not an american made bullpup in .308?
http://www.meco.org/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=880 -
Come on DWS, even you have to admit the addition of a bottle opener to the Galil was a revolutionary new design in "modern" combat rifles. [;)] 0 -
quote:Originally posted by CA sucks
Tavor in .308?
Why not an american made bullpup in .308?
http://www.meco.org/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=88
I like that one, except for it ejects the brass out the front, through a tube. I'm not so sure I like the "tube" idea. If you are pointing upward, the brass stays in the tube until it's full. When you lower the rifle, the brass falls out. I could see a time when the sound of empty brass "accidentally" hitting the floor would NOT be a good idea. [:0]
Time will tell if it's a good design or not.0 -
Agreed[^]quote:Originally posted by phillip
quote:Originally posted by ElMuertoMonkey
phillip,
Here's a link to the Tavor.
http://www.world.guns.ru/assault/as30-e.htm
Excellent site,That will be going in my favs.0 -
quote:Originally posted by eboydell
Well, I'll say it:"IT IS A ZIONIST PLOT!"[;)]
And what a plot it is![^][:D]0 -
quote:Originally posted by pickenup
quote:Originally posted by CA sucks
Tavor in .308?
Why not an american made bullpup in .308?
http://www.meco.org/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=88
I like that one, except for it ejects the brass out the front, through a tube. I'm not so sure I like the "tube" idea. If you are pointing upward, the brass stays in the tube until it's full. When you lower the rifle, the brass falls out. I could see a time when the sound of empty brass "accidentally" hitting the floor would NOT be a good idea. [:0]
Time will tell if it's a good design or not.
I don't see how its any worse than the sound an ejected case normally makes. If you have fired and there is a casing in the tube, they already know where you are- and I would imagine you would lower the rifle anyway as you start to move, and the cases would fall out about the same place you last fired from.
On the other hand, it makes it easier to pick up cases for those who like to reload, and probably results in less casings being damaged by ejection. It is marketed to civilians, not military, after all- though I can see a military wanting to use it.
Personally, I think it looks way better than the Tavor.0 -
CA sucks,
I do like the Kel-Tec RFB. The only thing I'm afraid of is that it'll have the SU-16 stigma, that it's a good gun until you put some work into it yourself and then it's a great gun.
I would prefer any improvements I add to a gun to be completely optional.[;)]0 -
quote:Originally posted by CA sucks
quote:Originally posted by pickenup
quote:Originally posted by CA sucks
Tavor in .308?
Why not an american made bullpup in .308?
http://www.meco.org/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=88
I like that one, except for it ejects the brass out the front, through a tube. I'm not so sure I like the "tube" idea. If you are pointing upward, the brass stays in the tube until it's full. When you lower the rifle, the brass falls out. I could see a time when the sound of empty brass "accidentally" hitting the floor would NOT be a good idea. [:0]
Time will tell if it's a good design or not.
I don't see how its any worse than the sound an ejected case normally makes. If you have fired and there is a casing in the tube, they already know where you are- and I would imagine you would lower the rifle anyway as you start to move, and the cases would fall out about the same place you last fired from.
On the other hand, it makes it easier to pick up cases for those who like to reload, and probably results in less casings being damaged by ejection. It is marketed to civilians, not military, after all- though I can see a military wanting to use it.
Personally, I think it looks way better than the Tavor.
I think so too. AND it's obtainable. [:D]
Do you think the tube would be prone to jams?0 -
Taken from Worldguns.RU Nothing new.
The experience, gained by the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) during the Six-days war of 1967, showed the deficiencies of the FN FAL rifles, which were the main armament of the IDF infantry. The FAL rifles were too sensitive to fine sand and dust of Arab deserts, and too long and bulky to carry and maneuver. On the other hand, the same war showed the advantages of the Kalashnikov AK-47 assault rifles, used by Arab infantry with great success. After the end of this war IDF decided to develop a new assault rifle, which will eventually replace the FN FAL battle rifles and some of the UZI submachine guns. It was also decided that the new assault rifle should be built around the new American low-impulse cartridge, known as 5.56x45mm. During the late 1960s the IDF tested two rival designs, one of the Uziel Gal, and the other of the Israel Galili. The latter design, based on the Finnish Valmet Rk.62 assault rifle (a license-built AK-47 clone), eventually won the competition and was selected as a new IDF assault rifle in the 1973, but its actual adoption was delayed by the next Israeli-Arab Yom Kippur war of the 1973. The machinery and documentation package was bought from Valmet and transferred to the state owned Israel Military Industries (IMI) company. There are some rumors that the first production Galil rifles were built on the Valmet-made receivers. The basic Galil rifle later evolved into several configurations, including the full-size 5.56mm AR and ARM assault rifles, compact 5.56mm SAR rifle for the tank and vehicle crews, 7.62mm NATO AR selective fire and 7.62mm NATO semi-automatic Galatz sniper rifle, 5.56mm MAR subcompact assault rifle, also known as Micro-Galil, and some other modifications, like the unsuccessful .30 Carbine Magal police rifle.
While being a successful weapon, the Galil was not widely issued to the IDF during its lifetime, because during the late 1960s and early 1970s Israel received large shipments of the US M16 and CAR-15 assault rifles at the very low prices. M16 rifles became the major armament of the IDF, with the Galils mostly issued to the Armored corps, Artillery corps and some units of the Israeli Air Forces. The Galil rifles were exported to the various South American, African and Asian countries. Estonia also received some Galil rifles in the early 2000s. The slightly modified Galil rifle is manufactured by the South African Vektor company, a division of the DENEL. Those models included the R-4 (Galil AR), R-5 (Galil SAR) and R-6 (Galil MAR) assault rifles, and are used by the South African Military. Another offspring of the Galil is the Croatian APS-95 assault rifle. The semi-automatic only versions of the both 5.56mm and 7.62mm Galil AR rifles were widely sold to both domestic and foreign civilian and law enforcement markets.
In general, the Galil rifles are fine weapons, but somewhat heavy and expensive to manufacture.
Technical description.
Basically, the Galil assault rifle can be described as a modified Kalashnikov AK-47 design, and a detailed description of its functioning can be found in respective article at this site. The key differences between the Galil and the AK-47 are as follows. The Galil featured a machined steel receivers of the original AK-47 rifles, but of slightly different shape. The AK-47-style safety - selector switch at the right side of the gun is complemented by the additional smaller switch at the left side of the receiver, above the pistol handle. The cocking handle is bent upward, so it can be operated with either hand. The sights of the Galil featured a front hooded post, mounted on the gas block, with the rear diopter sight, mounted on the receiver top cover. Rear sight is of the flip-up type, with settings for 300 and 500 meters. Additional folding night sights with luminous inserts can be raised into position, which allows to aim the gun in the low light conditions at the ranges of up to 100 meters. The barrel and the flash hider can be used to launch the rifle grenades from the barrel, using the blanc or live cartridges (depending on the rifle grenade type). The Galil ARM also features a folding detachable bipods and a carrying handle. The bipod base incorporates a bottle opener and a wire cutter. The standard folding buttstock is patterned after FN FAL Para, folds to the right to save the space. Some of the late production Micro-Galil (MAR) rifles also are fitted with the Picatinny-type rail, which allows to mount various sighting devices. Standard AR and ARM rifles can be fitted with scope mounting rail on the left side of the receiver. All 5.56mm Galil rifles are fed using proprietary 35 or 50 rounds curved box magazines with AK-47 style locking. M16-type magazines can be used via the special adapter. 7.62mm Galil rifles are fed using proprietary 25 rounds box magazines. Civilian semi-automatic Galil variants sometimes are fitted with 10 rounds magazines to comply with local firearms laws.0 -
Dean,
Worldguns.ru is one of the best sites around. I especially appreciate the photos they have.0 -
How come no one talks about the Desert Eagle???? I made a sizeable cotribution to the Israelie economy to own one in 50AE. It was money well spent.
W.D.0 -
Sardo
It started out as a good site, but over the years it's become a really good site. I remember back in the 90's when 70% of it was in Russian. All I could do was look at the pictures! LOL
Dean
quote:Originally posted by Ba Sardo
Dean,
Worldguns.ru is one of the best sites around. I especially appreciate the photos they have.0 -
Dean,
THIS is the bad boy I want to get my mitts on!
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as09-e.htm
With grenade launcher, of course!0 -
Dean,
Securityarms.com is another good site for pictures. Their descriptions are kind of hit or miss and the organization on that site could be improved, though.0
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