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Building an AR and need more advice.

Cutiegirlracing
I love building and learning things and my latest project is an AR build. I love this project because I can work on it in my living room and watch my son at the same time. He even helps me.
I just recieved my lower from Double star and I'm ready to start building. I'm looking to build a bench rest long range AR.
I want to get this kit from Model 1 and upgrade the stock, pistol grip and trigger. Here's what I have in mind.

http://www.model1sales.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=KTA245&storeid=1&image=tact24k.gif&CFID=27943380&CFTOKEN=83545331

With this stock

http://www.model1sales.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=FBAMP556&storeid=1&image=magpulprs.gif&CFID=27943380&CFTOKEN=83545331

and this grip, it's the wooden PSG1 grip.

http://www.model1sales.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=FPG000&storeid=1&image=pgrips.gif&CFID=27943380&CFTOKEN=83545331

The trigger I want is the RRA NM 2 stage.
Like this one

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=85732826

But once I have the stock, trigger, and pistol grip. I'll almost have the complete lower. So would I be better off and have a better rifle if I just went ahead and made a complete lower with the parts I wanted and brought this upper.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=85732826


If I did go ahead with the last option. Is this everything I will need to complete my Ar and be shoot it. I know I will still need a scope, clip and ammo.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=85732826

http://www.model1sales.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=FBAMP556&storeid=1&image=magpulprs.gif&CFID=27943380&CFTOKEN=83545331

PSG1 wood grip

http://www.model1sales.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=FPG000&storeid=1&image=pgrips.gif&CFID=27943380&CFTOKEN=83545331

And this trigger and lower kit

http://www.model1sales.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=FPG000&storeid=1&image=pgrips.gif&CFID=27943380&CFTOKEN=83545331I
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Comments

19 comments

Date Votes
  • sarge_3ad
    CGR, building a AR is alot of fun and gives you some bragging right, because alot of people wouldn't know where to begin and are amazed that you can build something like a firearm. I built one a fews years back from parts and assemblies and I've found out that you can usully build cheaper by buying assemblies. However you may want to upgrade some parts and then you've spent more money. Since you seem to know what you want in your rifle you would probably be better off building yours from parts that way you get the rifle for you. You have got some pretty good ideas, but if you would like more ideas get a free catalog from Brownells and search what the have to offer or go on line. They have enough parts to build your dream rifle, and if you know a gunsmith with a account you could get your parts even cheaper.

    By the way here's my AR:

    myAR.jpg

    Good luck and have fun.
    Sarge
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  • FrancF
    quote:I'm looking to build a bench rest long range AR.

    The only thing I will say is, do the homework on chrome lined barrels and bores, they are NOT all created equal.[:)]

    Before I open a can-o-worms. The heavy DPMS stainless bbl I put on my AR shoots better than the factory barrel on my Colt H-bar. HOWEVER!!!!!

    This does not mean chrome barrels can't shoot! Its the grade of chrome
    that can make the difference 4130-4150 etc.

    ar15.jpg
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  • Cyclonus
    quote:Originally posted by FrancF
    quote:I'm looking to build a bench rest long range AR.

    The only thing I will say is, do the homework on chrome lined barrels and bores, they are NOT all created equal.[:)]

    Before I open a can-o-worms. The heavy DPMS stainless bbl I put on my AR shoots better than the factory barrel on my Colt H-bar. HOWEVER!!!!!

    This does not mean chrome barrels can't shoot! Its the grade of chrome
    that can make the difference 4130-4150 etc.



    Just would like to know your opinion on the chrome barrel of an armilite M15 if you dont mind me asking.


    Oh and CGR why go with the wooden grip? The plastic one would IMHO look alot better when assembled due to the all black colors. Im thinking you probably like the feel of it better. I LOVE THAT STOCK though thanks now im gonna have to get a new AR and put that stock on it. BTW is the one your getting the one with the 4 rail handgaurd?
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  • buschmaster
    disclaimer: I don't build hot rod AR's! but I can help with what I think I know.

    the trigger is pretty much a drop-in part, that is, all you have to do is make sure you bought a good one. and make sure it's stoned smooth as glass.

    other parts like the grip, stock, handguards, etc are up to your personal taste, what fits you best is what you need. looks like you have some ideas on that already.

    looks like your biggest question is

    quote:But once I have the stock, trigger, and pistol grip. I'll almost have the complete lower. So would I be better off and have a better rifle if I just went ahead and made a complete lower with the parts I wanted and brought this upper.in other words, "which upper should I buy".

    other people besides me know what combination of parts on an upper would make a good long range target shooter, but I would like to mention that it would behoove you to get the upper and lower matched (mated, re-machined so they fit 100%) an example going the other way is when you get a poorly matched upper and lower, they're so wobbly you have to put in one of those red rubber pieces in the rear of the lower so when they mash together they don't wobble. you don't want wobble. so get them properly mated so the rifle is solid when assembled. -normally there is some degree of looseness to ensure two different makes of upper & lower will fit together, remember, it is after all a military pattern rifle. you want to eliminate all the inherent loose tolerances, and that's a big one. also chamber dimensions and bolt/bolt face tolerances, but that's a different story.

    some manufacturers offer matched uppers & lowers, I'd get a matched set from, say, RRA but have them put on the barrel you want, then drop in those other parts you wanted like trigger, grip, etc. since it's a target rifle, undoubtedly you're going to use a scope, therefore the barrel won't have a front sight on it, therefore I don't think you need to do anything special with the indexing. maybe make sure the barrel nut torque is just right. I wouldn't be surprised if superduper-high-end marksmen use some kind of fancy aftermarket barrel nut either.

    note, the heavier and longer the barrel, the steadier it will be, making for slightly less wobble when aiming. standing shooters, in fact, sometimes use leather jackets and a support-hand glove weighted with lead to further the effect.
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  • FrancF
    quote:Originally posted by Cyclonus
    quote:Originally posted by FrancF
    quote:I'm looking to build a bench rest long range AR.

    The only thing I will say is, do the homework on chrome lined barrels and bores, they are NOT all created equal.[:)]

    Before I open a can-o-worms. The heavy DPMS stainless bbl I put on my AR shoots better than the factory barrel on my Colt H-bar. HOWEVER!!!!!

    This does not mean chrome barrels can't shoot! Its the grade of chrome
    that can make the difference 4130-4150 etc.



    Just would like to know your opinion on the chrome barrel of an armilite M15 if you dont mind me asking.


    Gota shoot it to know[:D] For me, if it can't shoot a 1/4" 5 round group or better at 100 yards it needs work.
    Like I said before, Chrome barrels can be outstanding, good, or junk.
    Mine was ok but I knew I could do better.
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  • Cyclonus
    quote:Originally posted by FrancF
    quote:Originally posted by Cyclonus
    quote:Originally posted by FrancF
    quote:I'm looking to build a bench rest long range AR.

    The only thing I will say is, do the homework on chrome lined barrels and bores, they are NOT all created equal.[:)]

    Before I open a can-o-worms. The heavy DPMS stainless bbl I put on my AR shoots better than the factory barrel on my Colt H-bar. HOWEVER!!!!!

    This does not mean chrome barrels can't shoot! Its the grade of chrome
    that can make the difference 4130-4150 etc.



    Just would like to know your opinion on the chrome barrel of an armilite M15 if you dont mind me asking.


    Gota shoot it to know[:D] For me, if it can't shoot a 1/4" 5 round group or better at 100 yards it needs work.
    Like I said before, Chrome barrels can be outstanding, good, or junk.
    Mine was ok but I knew I could do better.



    Thanks you sort of and sort of didnt answer my question but oh well The one I had I never shot at paper but I did shoot at filled water jugs and beer bottles at 90yds with open sites and I hit every target the first time and every time. (took me awhile to pick up all that broken glass. It was a 20 inch M15A2 by armalite (at the time I only had the 10rd mag it came with.) But I was laying flat on the ground with a bipod.
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  • FrancF
    quote:Originally posted by Cyclonus
    quote:Originally posted by FrancF
    quote:Originally posted by Cyclonus
    quote:Originally posted by FrancF
    quote:I'm looking to build a bench rest long range AR.

    The only thing I will say is, do the homework on chrome lined barrels and bores, they are NOT all created equal.[:)]

    Before I open a can-o-worms. The heavy DPMS stainless bbl I put on my AR shoots better than the factory barrel on my Colt H-bar. HOWEVER!!!!!

    This does not mean chrome barrels can't shoot! Its the grade of chrome
    that can make the difference 4130-4150 etc.



    Just would like to know your opinion on the chrome barrel of an armilite M15 if you dont mind me asking.


    Gota shoot it to know[:D] For me, if it can't shoot a 1/4" 5 round group or better at 100 yards it needs work.
    Like I said before, Chrome barrels can be outstanding, good, or junk.
    Mine was ok but I knew I could do better.



    Thanks you sort of and sort of didnt answer my question but oh well


    To answer directly- I have know Idea what grade of chrome lining you have in your barrel. If it shoots well enough for you then your set.
    I like my guns to make tiny groups, and thats only the start.

    Cutiegirlracing, sounds like she wants to build a tack driving AR . I am no expert- but I researched every thing I could find before I modified my Colt H-bar.
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  • Cutiegirlracing
    FrancF....What you recommend on chrome and barrels. Or should I get non chrome?

    Cyclonus....I like the look of the wood, plus I figure I can custom carve/fit it to my hand if I need too. I'm not getting the rail. I won't be using it so it's money wasted. I love the way they look though.

    buschmaster....You have a very good point about matching uppers and lowers. I never even thought about it. I'm lucky though, because my dad can machine it for me. I'll have him mate the pieces. Is there anything else I should have him do while he's at it?


    Does anyone have opinions on Jewell tiggers? What about match grade bolt assemblies?

    Thanks Everyone for all this great advice.It's going to show in my AR when I get it done.
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  • Cyclonus
    quote:Originally posted by FrancF
    quote:Originally posted by Cyclonus
    quote:Originally posted by FrancF
    quote:Originally posted by Cyclonus
    quote:Originally posted by FrancF
    quote:I'm looking to build a bench rest long range AR.

    The only thing I will say is, do the homework on chrome lined barrels and bores, they are NOT all created equal.[:)]

    Before I open a can-o-worms. The heavy DPMS stainless bbl I put on my AR shoots better than the factory barrel on my Colt H-bar. HOWEVER!!!!!

    This does not mean chrome barrels can't shoot! Its the grade of chrome
    that can make the difference 4130-4150 etc.



    Just would like to know your opinion on the chrome barrel of an armilite M15 if you dont mind me asking.


    Gota shoot it to know[:D] For me, if it can't shoot a 1/4" 5 round group or better at 100 yards it needs work.
    Like I said before, Chrome barrels can be outstanding, good, or junk.
    Mine was ok but I knew I could do better.



    Thanks you sort of and sort of didnt answer my question but oh well


    To answer directly- I have know Idea what grade of chrome lining you have in your barrel. If it shoots well enough for you then your set.
    I like my guns to make tiny groups, and thats only the start.

    Cutiegirlracing, sounds like she wants to build a tack driving AR . I am no expert- but I researched every thing I could find before I modified my Colt H-bar.



    Yeah it looks like she is building a AR into a PSG1 might look and shoot just like one would be cool. Although I'll admit that Ive never measured a group or now how to do so. Therefor I cant really tell if I was shooting very well or if all AR's get that kind of accuracy. The chrome lining on it was very nice and very smooth Bore and barrel shined like a mirror when it was clean Sadly I didnt even have it long enough nor shoot it long enough to break it in. I bought it new and only put 30rnds total through it.
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  • Cutiegirlracing
    FrancF...I do want to build a tack driver. I'm shooting with a 10/22 out to 200 yards. I'm getting a 8 inch groups with 3 shots at 200 yards. I don't know how good that is in the world, but around here it's not bad. I'm proud of it anyway, but I can't do it everytime.
    Everyone tells me I've reach the limits of my rifle. It's a built 10/22, but yeah it's not consisant after 100 yards.
    I love long range shooting and with this AR I plan to move out to 500 plus.
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  • Zebra
    I have to give CGR credit! I haven't even figured out how to take down my AR-15 yet!
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  • Cutiegirlracing
    Cyclonus....It's funny you should mention the PSG1. I came down to me building an AR from scatch or building up a Sar 8 I had or a FAL. I decided AR because I love AR's. Plus I now have this lower so, I've past the "which gun?" stage of my build.
    I may regret choosing the 223 over the 308. But I am plan on getting a bench rest bolt action in 6.5-284 norma. When I get that gun depends on how much I spend on this one.
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  • Cutiegirlracing
    quote:Originally posted by Zebra
    I have to give CGR credit! I haven't even figured out how to take down my AR-15 yet!


    Just do what I do. Take it apart anyway and if you get it back together than you'll be one up.
    When I was going up I always took things apart. Going up in a race shop with alot of things that come apart wasn't always a good thing.
    I would say 1 out of 5 things I took apart I got back together. I usually got in trouble for the over 4.
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  • buschmaster
    quote:Originally posted by Cutiegirlracing
    buschmaster....You have a very good point about matching uppers and lowers. I never even thought about it. I'm lucky though, because my dad can machine it for me. I'll have him mate the pieces. Is there anything else I should have him do while he's at it?that's probably all there is to it. perhaps these guys can help you, they're pretty knowledgeable but I don't know if they'd like the idea of answering 20 questions when they don't get to do the work. you can try it. http://www.essentialarms.com
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  • Cyclonus
    Yeah I wouldve loved to have had a PSG1 but at the 20k price tag I doubt it I really like the scope on that thing (seen one at a range once) Id personally try to find a scope like that and mount it to that rig.
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  • MVP
    CGR
    The only major thing I would do different then what I am seeing in your plans is I would buy the high rise upper to eliminate the need for riser blocks or the tall rings.
    There are several more parts needed for the lower then the trigger kit, pistol grip and stock. You would be better off buying the whole kit from RRA and getting the 2 stage trigger in the kit and then selling the stock and pistol grip to help pay for the new Wood Furniture.
    Of the many ARs I have assembled and worked on for long range accuracy I think the best design in the high rise.
    Here is a pic of my 5 shot one hole @ 100yds AR.
    Notice I like the wood on an AR also and also the High rise upper.
    I also use Double Star a lot and love them as far as quality and fit goes.
    I have some contacts with great prices if you need any help. I am sure you get plenty of help offers but I thought I would still offer.
    ar15001-1.jpg
    ar15003.jpg
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  • Cutiegirlracing
    That's a really nice AR MVP. Could you tell us more about the stock? Is it custom? I did think about a high rise. I may go that route. I really wouldn't need the forward assist either.
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  • MVP
    quote:Originally posted by Cutiegirlracing
    That's a really nice AR MVP. Could you tell us more about the stock? Is it custom? I did think about a high rise. I may go that route. I really wouldn't need the forward assist either.

    The Butt stock was bought from Bownells from their last catalog but I can't find it in their current #60 catalogue. If someone still has #59 they could probably look it up but I can't find my #59 right now.

    The Foward assist and even the dust cover are unneccasary for long range accuracy and a design for the battle feild.
    The receivers that have eliminated the foward assist and dust covers will also be a bit lighter.
    I made an AR with the DPMS lightweight upper where the FA and DC were eliminated but people are funny and seem to prefer the edded weight of the classic design.
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  • MVP
    Here is a link of the upper I would use for a new rifle build if I were going to build a 500+ yard AR, just to add to your ideas.

    http://www.dpmsinc.com/store/products/?prod=819&cat=1704
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