Clerics must be taken out!
They are for the most part a large part of the war in Iraq! JMHO!
BAGHDAD - The powerful Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr ordered his militiamen on Sunday to redouble their battle to oust American forces and argued that Iraq's army and police should join him in defeating "your archenemy." The U.S. military announced the weekend deaths of 10 American soldiers, including six killed on Sunday.
Security remained so tenuous in the capital on the eve of the fourth anniversary of the U.S. capture of Baghdad that Iraq's military declared a 24-hour ban on all vehicles in the capital from 5 a.m. Monday. The government quickly reinstated Monday as a holiday, just a day after it had decreed that April 9 no longer would be a day off.
Among the 10 U.S. deaths announced Sunday were three soldiers killed by a roadside bomb while patrolling south of Baghdad; one killed in an attack south of the capital; and two who died of combat wounds sustained north of the capital, in Diyala and Salahuddin provinces. On Saturday, the military said, four U.S. soldiers were killed in an explosion near their vehicle in Diyala.
At least 3,280 members of the U.S. military have died since the beginning of the Iraq war in March 2003, according to an Associated Press count. The figure includes seven military civilians.
South of Baghdad, a truck bomb exploded near the Mahmoudiya General Hospital, killing at least 18 people and wounding 23. The pickup truck loaded with artillery shells blew apart several buildings in a warren of auto repair shops.
Violence in Iraq remained as relentless as the deepening debate in the United States about the way forward in the war four years after Marines and the Army's 3rd Infantry Division swept into the Iraqi capital 20 days into the American invasion.
At least 47 people were killed or found dead in violence Sunday, including 17 execution victims dumped in the capital.
Al-Sadr commands an enormous following among Iraq's majority Shiites and has close allies in the Shiite-dominated government. The statement Sunday carried his seal and was distributed in the Shiite holy city of Najaf, where the cleric called for an enormous demonstration to mark the fourth anniversary of Baghdad's fall.
U.S. officials have said al-Sadr left Iraq for neighboring Iran after the start of a U.S. and Iraqi security crackdown. His followers say he is in Iraq.
"You, the Iraqi army and police forces, don't walk alongside the occupiers, because they are your archenemy," the al-Sadr statement said.
He urged his followers not to attack fellow Iraqis but to turn all their efforts on American forces.
"God has ordered you to be patient in front of your enemy, and unify your efforts against them - not against the sons of Iraq," the statement said.
Al-Sadr apparently issued the statement in response to three days of clashes between his Mahdi Army militiamen and U.S.-backed Iraqi troops in Diwaniyah, south of Baghdad.
In Washington, Sen. Joseph Lieberman (news, bio, voting record), an independent of Connecticut, said al-Sadr's words showed the American troop surge was working.
"He is not calling for a resurgence of sectarian conflict. He's striking a nationalist chord. We're going to have to watch him closely. He's not our friend. ... He's acknowledging that the surge is working," the senator, a strong backer of the war, said on CNN's "Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer."
In Najaf, police spokesman Col. Ali Jiryo said cars were banned from entering the city for 24 hours starting 8 p.m. Sunday. Buses were to be at all entrances of the city to transport arriving demonstrators or other visitors to the city center. Najaf residents would be allowed to drive, he said.
Hours after the Mahmoudiya bombing, five charred bodies littered a courtyard. Most of the dead were mechanics in the repair shops, officials said. The hospital was slightly damaged by shrapnel. Many of the victims were in their homes at the time of the blast, 20 miles south of Baghdad.
While religious-based killings are lower in Baghdad in the eighth week of the security crackdown, Sunni insurgents - including al-Qaida in Iraq - and Shiite militia fighters have shifted their battleground to regions like Baqouba, the Diyala province capital northeast of Baghdad.
At least 62 bodies - execution victims who were tortured - were found in or near Baqouba last week alone.
In a rural area just east of Baghdad, three mortar rounds crashed into houses and six people were taken to a hospital in Sadr City with breathing troubles from a possible chemical agent, police said.
Doctors said the victims' faces turned yellow and they were unable to open their eyes. One hospital official said the chemical was chlorine, although such an effect was unlikely given the small amount of the chemical that could be fitted into the shells.
U.S. forces captured a senior al-Qaida leader and two others in a raid Sunday morning in Baghdad, the U.S. military said.
The al-Qaida figure was identified as "the gatekeeper to the al-Qaida emir of Baghdad" and was linked to several car bomb attacks in the Iraqi capital, the military said in a statement, without naming the captive.
Iraqis streamed toward Najaf for Monday's 4th anniversary demonstration. Witnesses said thousands of residents in Baghdad's largest Shiite slum, Sadr City, boarded buses and minivans Sunday for Najaf.
"The faithful should participate in a demonstration in Najaf on April 9, demanding that the occupiers withdraw from our lands. They should carry or wear Iraqi flags," al-Sadr's office said.
On Sunday, Iraqi flags flew from most houses and shops in Sadr City. Drivers and motorcyclists affixed them to their vehicles. Police escorted convoys of pickup trucks overflowing with young boys waving Iraqi flags, en route to Najaf.
An Iraqi flag was hoisted over a military base in Basra, Iraq's second-largest city, as Iraqi troops took control of the facility Sunday from British forces. The Shatt al-Arab base is the second to be transferred to Iraqi control in Basra over the past month.
BAGHDAD - The powerful Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr ordered his militiamen on Sunday to redouble their battle to oust American forces and argued that Iraq's army and police should join him in defeating "your archenemy." The U.S. military announced the weekend deaths of 10 American soldiers, including six killed on Sunday.
Security remained so tenuous in the capital on the eve of the fourth anniversary of the U.S. capture of Baghdad that Iraq's military declared a 24-hour ban on all vehicles in the capital from 5 a.m. Monday. The government quickly reinstated Monday as a holiday, just a day after it had decreed that April 9 no longer would be a day off.
Among the 10 U.S. deaths announced Sunday were three soldiers killed by a roadside bomb while patrolling south of Baghdad; one killed in an attack south of the capital; and two who died of combat wounds sustained north of the capital, in Diyala and Salahuddin provinces. On Saturday, the military said, four U.S. soldiers were killed in an explosion near their vehicle in Diyala.
At least 3,280 members of the U.S. military have died since the beginning of the Iraq war in March 2003, according to an Associated Press count. The figure includes seven military civilians.
South of Baghdad, a truck bomb exploded near the Mahmoudiya General Hospital, killing at least 18 people and wounding 23. The pickup truck loaded with artillery shells blew apart several buildings in a warren of auto repair shops.
Violence in Iraq remained as relentless as the deepening debate in the United States about the way forward in the war four years after Marines and the Army's 3rd Infantry Division swept into the Iraqi capital 20 days into the American invasion.
At least 47 people were killed or found dead in violence Sunday, including 17 execution victims dumped in the capital.
Al-Sadr commands an enormous following among Iraq's majority Shiites and has close allies in the Shiite-dominated government. The statement Sunday carried his seal and was distributed in the Shiite holy city of Najaf, where the cleric called for an enormous demonstration to mark the fourth anniversary of Baghdad's fall.
U.S. officials have said al-Sadr left Iraq for neighboring Iran after the start of a U.S. and Iraqi security crackdown. His followers say he is in Iraq.
"You, the Iraqi army and police forces, don't walk alongside the occupiers, because they are your archenemy," the al-Sadr statement said.
He urged his followers not to attack fellow Iraqis but to turn all their efforts on American forces.
"God has ordered you to be patient in front of your enemy, and unify your efforts against them - not against the sons of Iraq," the statement said.
Al-Sadr apparently issued the statement in response to three days of clashes between his Mahdi Army militiamen and U.S.-backed Iraqi troops in Diwaniyah, south of Baghdad.
In Washington, Sen. Joseph Lieberman (news, bio, voting record), an independent of Connecticut, said al-Sadr's words showed the American troop surge was working.
"He is not calling for a resurgence of sectarian conflict. He's striking a nationalist chord. We're going to have to watch him closely. He's not our friend. ... He's acknowledging that the surge is working," the senator, a strong backer of the war, said on CNN's "Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer."
In Najaf, police spokesman Col. Ali Jiryo said cars were banned from entering the city for 24 hours starting 8 p.m. Sunday. Buses were to be at all entrances of the city to transport arriving demonstrators or other visitors to the city center. Najaf residents would be allowed to drive, he said.
Hours after the Mahmoudiya bombing, five charred bodies littered a courtyard. Most of the dead were mechanics in the repair shops, officials said. The hospital was slightly damaged by shrapnel. Many of the victims were in their homes at the time of the blast, 20 miles south of Baghdad.
While religious-based killings are lower in Baghdad in the eighth week of the security crackdown, Sunni insurgents - including al-Qaida in Iraq - and Shiite militia fighters have shifted their battleground to regions like Baqouba, the Diyala province capital northeast of Baghdad.
At least 62 bodies - execution victims who were tortured - were found in or near Baqouba last week alone.
In a rural area just east of Baghdad, three mortar rounds crashed into houses and six people were taken to a hospital in Sadr City with breathing troubles from a possible chemical agent, police said.
Doctors said the victims' faces turned yellow and they were unable to open their eyes. One hospital official said the chemical was chlorine, although such an effect was unlikely given the small amount of the chemical that could be fitted into the shells.
U.S. forces captured a senior al-Qaida leader and two others in a raid Sunday morning in Baghdad, the U.S. military said.
The al-Qaida figure was identified as "the gatekeeper to the al-Qaida emir of Baghdad" and was linked to several car bomb attacks in the Iraqi capital, the military said in a statement, without naming the captive.
Iraqis streamed toward Najaf for Monday's 4th anniversary demonstration. Witnesses said thousands of residents in Baghdad's largest Shiite slum, Sadr City, boarded buses and minivans Sunday for Najaf.
"The faithful should participate in a demonstration in Najaf on April 9, demanding that the occupiers withdraw from our lands. They should carry or wear Iraqi flags," al-Sadr's office said.
On Sunday, Iraqi flags flew from most houses and shops in Sadr City. Drivers and motorcyclists affixed them to their vehicles. Police escorted convoys of pickup trucks overflowing with young boys waving Iraqi flags, en route to Najaf.
An Iraqi flag was hoisted over a military base in Basra, Iraq's second-largest city, as Iraqi troops took control of the facility Sunday from British forces. The Shatt al-Arab base is the second to be transferred to Iraqi control in Basra over the past month.
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"firebrand" or similar exciting and aggressive sounding adjective in front of "cleric" is media code-word for "terrorist" and "enemy." 0 -
Why stop at Iraq and why stop at Moslem? 0 -
one of the biggest mistakes made in the iraq war was not killing Sadr from day one. now we and the iraqi people are paying dearly for it. i just cant understand why we havent killed him yet. 0 -
Once again we are fighting a war without the intention to win. We still have not gammed the radio or TV stations that instigate terrorism. Stalin said with controll of the TV he could controll the hearts and minds of the people. That is how important it is. Terrorist are expressly not covered by the Geneuve Convention and can be killed or executed because they are terrorists, same goes for spys. The clerics get away with their acts because NO one stops them. Kill a few and they will get the message. This is a war of wills. And can only be fought on that level. 0 -
The problem we face is that by not taking them out, we leave a hostile power intact within Iraq.
If we DO take them out, we leave a void that will be filled by whom?
Our lack of foresight in taking out Saddam led to Iran's ascendance within the Gulf region. Taking out Al Sadr, as good an idea as that may seem, may lead to some unforeseen and unintended consequences that could very well leave us in a worse position than we're in now. We cannot and should not assume that when they are removed that their places will be taken by someone sympathetic or friendly to our cause.
Our desire to win must be matched with plans that are feasible and goals that are attainable. The results we get from winning must be as much of our own design as possible. To fight and to win for a result that can only be guessed at is a foolhardy gamble.
Before we take Al Sadr out, we must ensure that there is someone else to fill his shoes and that individual is willing to do as we say.0 -
quote:Originally posted by ElMuertoMonkey
The problem we face is that by not taking them out, we leave a hostile power intact within Iraq.
If we DO take them out, we leave a void that will be filled by whom?
Our lack of foresight in taking out Saddam led to Iran's ascendance within the Gulf region. Taking out Al Sadr, as good an idea as that may seem, may lead to some unforeseen and unintended consequences that could very well leave us in a worse position than we're in now. We cannot and should not assume that when they are removed that their places will be taken by someone sympathetic or friendly to our cause.
Our desire to win must be matched with plans that are feasible and goals that are attainable. The results we get from winning must be as much of our own design as possible. To fight and to win for a result that can only be guessed at is a foolhardy gamble.
Before we take Al Sadr out, we must ensure that there is someone else to fill his shoes and that individual is willing to do as we say.
Why wait? Could we get someone worse?0 -
p3skyking,
quote:Why wait? Could we get someone worse?
It is impossible to overestimate just how bad a situation can become.
Mind you, I don't advocate waiting so much as I advocate thinking it out and acting accordingly.0 -
al-Sadr wants the United States out of Iraq. If he can convince the
Iraqi people to unite against the invaders i.e. the United States,
we're really going to have a good time of it. We'll get just what
President Bush wants, a country with people focused on living together
without outside interference (United States). Democracy at its finest.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Cameroon
al-Sadr wants the United States out of Iraq. If he can convince the
Iraqi people to unite against the invaders i.e. the United States,
we're really going to have a good time of it. We'll get just what
President Bush wants, a country with people focused on living together
without outside interference (United States). Democracy at its finest.
Good point. It will only be a matter of time before these extremists begin appealing to nationalists who believe that any government (no matter how bad) run by the people of Iraq is a better government than one forced onto them by the USA. If they read a few Gun Broker posts where our members are demanding that we take their oil as our own because it was paid for with the lives of Americans (we deserve $2 per gallon gasoline) that should do wonders to increase the level of hostility.0 -
Yep, that towel head needs to go collect his 72 virgins. 0 -
MT357 - Don't understand your reply. Wasn't the reason President Bush
wanted to "surge" American troops to help the Iraqi government to take
control of their own country? Now, al-Sadr wants to help by stoping
sectarian/insurgent violence to show the Iraqi people can govern them-
selves and you want him dead? If they can govern themselves, what's
the big deal?0 -
Among the 10 U.S. deaths announced Sunday were three soldiers killed by a roadside bomb while patrolling south of Baghdad; one killed in an attack south of the capital; and two who died of combat wounds sustained north of the capital, in Diyala and Salahuddin provinces. On Saturday, the military said, four U.S. soldiers were killed in an explosion near their vehicle in Diyala.
South of Baghdad, a truck bomb exploded near the Mahmoudiya General Hospital, killing at least 18 people and wounding 23. The pickup truck loaded with artillery shells blew apart several buildings in a warren of auto repair shops.
At least 47 people were killed or found dead in violence Sunday, including 17 execution victims dumped in the capital.
Hours after the Mahmoudiya bombing, five charred bodies littered a courtyard. Most of the dead were mechanics in the repair shops, officials said. The hospital was slightly damaged by shrapnel. Many of the victims were in their homes at the time of the blast, 20 miles south of Baghdad.
At least 62 bodies - execution victims who were tortured - were found in or near Baqouba last week alone.
In a rural area just east of Baghdad, three mortar rounds crashed into houses and six people were taken to a hospital in Sadr City with breathing troubles from a possible chemical agent, police said.
Looks like that surge is really working great.
Thank you, Commander in Chief Bush.
.0 -
Our forces have needed to take the head off the snake from the time we first ran into Al Sadar! He is a trainer of young minds in the dicipline of hate for all other religions. Until these radical muslims are eliminated they will infect the whole of the middle east and insure that we will have to fight WWIII in their land in the not to distant future.
Of course this will be a much higher level conflict, with nukes most likely and after they have extracted much from the West!0 -
AlSadr has to die. 0 -
AlSadr or anyone else is immaterial. what matters is that the citizens of Iraq agree that the US in NOT an invader, but a temporary support for the government elected by the majority of the people. Since the religious leaders are not into elections, they want the government to fail. As such the religious leaders are at war with the government and de facto with the US.
the solution will be when the preponderance of the Iraqi citizens believe that they are better off with the elected government than with the theocracy. IF/when that happens there will be no place for the terrorists to hide and the fighting/bombings will soon stop.
To kill someone even as despicable as some of the leaders, will do nothing but make a martyr of him and dead he will have many converts.0 -
Although he was Orthodox, Mircea the Elder, the Prince of Wallachia, also participated with a contingent in the Crusading army. His principality now constituted the border between Christendom and Islam. 
Siege of Nicopolis shortly before the fall of Constantinople.
Dracula's Grandfather brought a small contingent of 10,000 men to this Crusade.0 -
Sig -
Sounds like you have a pretty good plan.
Should it be "III", "3", or "Three" ??
Doug0
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