Thinking about joining the Air Force, Need Insight
I will be graduating in May with my BS in Law Enforcement & Justice Administration with a minor in Security Administration. I have no huge desire to work for a police department and I really want to work private security. I am currently a Corporate Security Intern with Caterpillar and I thoroughly enjoy every minute of it. However, Caterpillar and 99.9% of other companies will not hire fresh grads for security. They want military experience, years of security experience, or retired/former cops. I had the chance to eat lunch the other day with a retired Marine Captain who now works in Corporate Security for Caterpillar and he told me to look into the Air force, so I did. He said I would go in as an Officer and be able to work in Security Forces and gain very valuable experience and knowledge. He said as a 20 year veteran of the Marine Corps, that he highly recommends the Air Force. I plan on visiting a recruiter over the next couple weeks to learn more. However, I knew I could learn a great deal from the people of this site, so I turned here first. My questions are as follows...
1. If I go in for Security Forces would I actually get put into it?
2. Have you been in the Air Force and what are you thoughts/opinions about it?
3. What do I need to know about the Air Force that recruiters won't tell me?
Thank you for any help and/or insight. [:)]
1. If I go in for Security Forces would I actually get put into it?
2. Have you been in the Air Force and what are you thoughts/opinions about it?
3. What do I need to know about the Air Force that recruiters won't tell me?
Thank you for any help and/or insight. [:)]
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quote:Originally posted by 300Win_Mag
1. If I go in for Security Forces would I actually get put into it? One would certainly think so; that's what I requested and got. Ended up being assigned to the 812 Air Police Sq, Roswell AFB, NM from basic. quote:
2. Have you been in the Air Force and what are you thoughts/opinions about it? Couldn't decide if I wanted to stay or not, so after 24+ years in the USAF, I got out (retired). Got to meet a lot of fine people and live in interesting countries; was able to have my family with me in Taiwan and Egypt. [;)]quote:
3. What do I need to know about the Air Force that recruiters won't tell me? Idsman75 can answer this better than I could; he probably will be along. BTW, listen to the Marine, he knows from personal experience.
Good luck.0 -
I got 2 words for you:
GO ARMY![:D]0 -
quote:Originally posted by git_r_done
I got 2 words for you:
GO ARMY![:D]
The Marine Captain I had lunch with and another Marine (23 year vet, and also in Caterpillar Corporate Security) both said, "DO NOT LOOK AT THE DAMN ARMY!" [:D] That is a direct quote from both. I have the utmost respect for both of these men. They have been great so far to me.0 -
United States Navy, 1979-19910 -
Unless they can guarantee you a specific job in a contract, I wouldn't do it because they are notorious for only guranteeing you a career field. For example, the recruiter tells you that you can be an F-15 mechanic but can only guarantee you "Mechanic" for your career field. You could end up a generator mechanic after you finish your boot camp.
Secondly, the Air Force was OVER-strength for the longest time. They implemented a "blue to green" program that offered Air Force perosnnel bonuses to switch to the Army. That tells me that the Air Force is bottom-heavy and good luck on promotion. There has to be slots available ABOVE you in order to generate a need to promote people of your rank. "Over strength" is a nightmare when it comes to promotion prospects. I love it when people the next rank above me retire or get out of the Army. That means there's more room up there for me. It increases my chance for promotion. The Air Force recruiter will gloss over this by talking about "quality of life" and about how cushy the Air Force is. Guess what. I determine my own quality of life. I don't need the military service to have anything to do with what I choose to do in my free recreational time. When the Air Force recruiter does this I want you to think of something in the back of your mind. Think silently to yourself, "Does this guy assume that I'm a p-u-s-s-y?" I'd take most of their pitch as an insult because all they'll do is talk to you about how fun and easy life is. They'll even tell you that it's just like being a civilian. 20 years from now (you may decide to make the military a career) do you want to sit around the VFW or the Legion having a beer with your fellow retirees and tell stories about your "glorified civilian military service"?
Thirdly, I have orders that allow me to wear the Security Forces basic function badge (or whatever it is called). A few people in the Army are authorized to wear it. I'll tell you how I got it. I was deployed to Honduras and served as a member of Joint Task Force Bravo. I was attached to an Air Force/Army Joint Security Force and I did the Air Force "Security Forces" job for six months. Know where I spent most of my time when I wasn't working as an armorer? I was sitting on a dang flight line counting airplanes and calling in tail numbers on the radio. BOOOOOOORING. The Air Force SF's told me all about their security guard jobs in the Air Force trudging around in the snow guarding some hanger.
I'm in the Army but I'll give you a little piece of advice that I don't give much. I've been an MP for 10 years so I'm speaking from a SLIGHT base of experience.
If you want to do REAL law enforcement work, I'd go Coast Guard. Those guys deal with all kinds of real-life drug interdiction and rescue work regularly. Unfortunately, there's a pretty healthy waiting list and you won't get some Coast Guard recruiter to come out and visit with you. You may have to drive a hundred miles or more to see one simply because the Coast Guard doesn't really have to recruit. They just process applications.
Secondly, I would look at the Army MP Corps. You have a lot more opportunity in the Army to do things like work as a K-9 MP or as an Investigator (did that) after you've had a couple years experience. You'll go to the field more and you'll definitely wind up in Iraq or Afghanistan at one point in time or another and the work on a deployment will be a bit more dangerous than you will find in the Air Force but you'll have more practical experience beyond that of a glorified security guard that may occasionally write a ticket.
That's just my humble opinion. That's not talking from a biased standpoint. That's how I'd guide my own brother if I was asked the same questions.
If you want to be an Infantryman or a Marine then by all means join the USMC. You have to want one or both of those primarily though. Your USMC recruiter won't guarantee you law enforcement experience and is lying if he tries. Once again, promotions will be slow. I put several ex-Marines in the Army and the chief complaint was slow promotion opportunities.
The Navy will turn you into a glorified security guard on a boat.0 -
With a BS you need to go in as an officer. Enlisted security forces personell only guard the gate and count rivets on the generals jet. My sister was SF and my brother in law is a MSgt in SF. Both told me 15 yrs ago not to go into SF. I am a MSgt in aircraft mechanics (hydraulics). An officer or SRNCO in the SF career field are the only ones that get the experience that you look for. Don't listen to a recruiter that says you can enlist and then apply for OTS in a year or two. You can apply, but the going rate for OTS acceptance now is about 20%. If that does'nt work out, You'll be stuck in another 2-4 yrs of enlistment. Apply to OTS as a civilian graduate, if that doesn't pan out, no wasted time. Then you know to look elsewhere.
Just my opinion.[:)]
Earl0 -
quote:Originally posted by earlwellman
With a BS you need to go in as an officer. Enlisted security forces personell only guard the gate and count rivets on the generals jet. My sister was SF and my brother in law is a MSgt in SF. Both told me 15 yrs ago not to go into SF. I am a MSgt in aircraft mechanics (hydraulics). An officer or SRNCO in the SF career field are the only ones that get the experience that you look for. Don't listen to a recruiter that says you can enlist and then apply for OTS in a year or two. You can apply, but the going rate for OTS acceptance now is about 20%. If that does'nt work out, You'll be stuck in another 2-4 yrs of enlistment. Apply to OTS as a civilian graduate, if that doesn't pan out, no wasted time. Then you know to look elsewhere.
Just my opinion.[:)]
Earl
I would definitely only go in as an Officer.0 -
Bad timing.
The USAF is in the middle of "force shaping", where they're trying to trim the fat and save tight budget dollars. It's getting harder to get in and lots of active duty duty officers aren't being retained when their enlistment is up. A total of 40,000 positions are to be cut over the next year.
The bulk of USAF officers come from either the AF Academy or ROTC. When you sign up you'll fill out a dream sheet where you list a series of available jobs by order of preference, but all those ROTC and Academy people get first pick. Those simply joining with a degree get the leftovers.
The only thing you have going for you is that the Security Forces career field may not be popular with new officers. It's one of the most bottom heavy career fields, with it's Lt's being responsible for more enlisted people than in most other fields. SF also has a greater percentage of these who are young first enlistment airmen who tend to require much more attention.0 -
whatever you choose...think about ALL your decisions.
air force: hey bill....lets get some coffee...well first i need to have my cleaning lady tidy up extra good and tell me CO to piss off.... [;)][:D]
or being an officer, do you want to join the marines/army and lead some of the finest men in the world...(well mostly the marines..[;)][:D])
most other branches are a bit 'sour' when it comes to the air farce....awesome billeting...more females...cleaning maids...laxed attitude...
again, im not saying any of this is a bad thing...
either way keep us posted in your choice
LET THE FLAMING BEGIN! [}:)][}:)][}:)][;)]0 -
Here's a question. Why do you want to be an officer? I could have been an officer several years ago. No thank you. My brother will be a Captain this summer and they're giving him Company command within the next two months. I don't envy him one bit. That's just my personal take on it. I would hate to have my platoon leader's job.
There's a Sergeant in my unit who has a law degree and passed the bar. I don't view the role of a non-commissioned officer as a "step down" from the officer's corps. There's a reason why they call us the backbone of the Army.0 -
Retired, US Army. Enlisted, NCO, Officer. ALL branches of the Armed Forces have good duty, and crappy duty. Talk to the recruiters. See what they have to offer. My only real advice is to remember the running cadence we used to sing with the troops. "Hey young soldier, don't feel blue- My recruiter was a liar too!" And that is an OLD song ! Whatever is offered- GET IT IN WRITING. If it is not in writing, it never happened. In writing, the service does not deliver, you are released from service. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by MN Hunter
whatever you choose...think about ALL your decisions.
air force: hey bill....lets get some coffee...well first i need to have my cleaning lady tidy up extra good and tell me CO to piss off.... [;)][:D]Anyone here who was in the AF ever have a cleaning lady? ...I mean besides your little hootch maid in SEA.[;)]
Times have changed without you noticing, MN Hunter. The Navy is now the only branch that doesn't issue weapons and conduct ground combat training in basic. USAF began this several years ago and during the middle of this year will be increasing basic training time by about a third to include further field training.0 -
As an AF SF officer, you're going to have to deal with some really stupid Airmen. From my observations, the kids being selected by the AF to play cop are about as dumb as they can get with out being mentally retarded. Guess they don't have to be too smart when all they do is match pictures with faces when they check your ID card and access badge. 0 -
SF is likely you will get it if your 1st choice(IF SELECTED.)
Recruiters are liars, find one that is good even if in the next state. too much work (AFOQT, references, etc, and time 6mo+) to watse an application with some jerk who won't tell you that he doesnt know what he is doing
Good Luck
go to the OTS website http://www.airforceots.com/portal/index.php
run by appliants and attendees. and for expectations of application
They will tell you what you need , and answer you questions better than the old coots here!0 -
Also, most enlisted recruiters don't know jack about how to go about becoming an officer. Just a little more personal experience. 0 -
you have to know the process and what you want before talking or requesting anything from your OFFICER recruiter. read that site and ask questions before you apply 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Txs
quote:Originally posted by MN Hunter
whatever you choose...think about ALL your decisions.
air force: hey bill....lets get some coffee...well first i need to have my cleaning lady tidy up extra good and tell me CO to piss off.... [;)][:D]Anyone here who was in the AF ever have a cleaning lady? ...I mean besides your little hootch maid in SEA.[;)]
Times have changed without you noticing, MN Hunter. The Navy is now the only branch that doesn't issue weapons and conduct ground combat training in basic. USAF began this several years ago and during the middle of this year will be increasing basic training time by about a third to include further field training.
when did you last check where they DIDNT have room cleaning done weekly, please do tell. your right, maybe years back. but i just got out of the service not more than 1yr ago... so yes, nowadays they do have them Txs and with "catered" chow....its nice they are now STARTING to have field training...hopefully this will extend basic training to more than a couple weeks [}:)][}:)][;)][:D]0 -
I know that it is too late now but why didn't you simply go through ROTC and let Uncle Sam foot most of the bill for your education? You would receive your university degree, serve your obligated time and then move on into civilian life with a degree and the military experience that you apparently need for your profession. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by kristov
I know that it is too late now but why didn't you simply go through ROTC and let Uncle Sam foot most of the bill for your education? You would receive your university degree, serve your obligated time and then move on into civilian life with a degree and the military experience that you apparently need for your profession.
where were you a few years back...[;)][:D]0 -
quote:Originally posted by tsavo303
Recruiters are liars
I won't take offense to that considering that my tour as a Recruiter was up in 2005. That's not how we ran our office. The response that I wanted to give would be automatically filtered anyways.
bleen you.0 -
they have (or had) a masters ROTC, might be worth looking into to suppliment your CJ degree 0 -
IDS-Sorry, no offense intended, he will be best able to get accepted and what he wants if he does not trust the inconsistant advice that some would give (like I got from different recruiters when I applied.) like all things, some are better than others.
quote:Originally posted by idsman75
quote:Originally posted by tsavo303
Recruiters are liars
I won't take offense to that considering that my tour as a Recruiter was up in 2005. That's not how we ran our office. The response that I wanted to give would be automatically filtered anyways.
bleen you.0 -
heh heh heh....some of my response was tounge-in-cheek. I guess you can't project vocal intonation and such on a forum. I'm a little "froggy" tonight. [;)] 0 -
...Two words...Semper Fi! 0 -
My brother recently retired from the USAF. He flew F16's in the 62nd TFS out of MacDill during the first Gulf War.
He loves the Air Force, says go for it, you'll be glad you did.0 -
I met a women a few years ago who was an investigator in the air force who only dealt with crimes committed either by military personel or on their property. she had been in the air force for 7 years and had received great training. she was planning on going into the FBI or a police force. i think the air force would be good since they dont worry about all the grunt stuff like marines or army 0 -
Last year I spent a 7 month TDY at Nellis Air Force base out in Nevada. First time I have been on an Air Force base, as I was Army. I could not believe how lax the security was and how poor the SF troops were. You could tell they all used the same web gear and holster, etc and just handed it to the next one coming on duty. It would be too small for some of the guys and they would let it hang open in front, unbuckled. Then a female would come on duty and the belt would be hanging down way past her waist. There was no way she could have ever gotten the pistol out, the way it was just flopping around. One gate was always manned by armed contract security for some reason and they looked much sharper than the SF troops. And the patrol SF guys...what a boring job. They just drove around the base at 10 MPH all day long. If I was you, I would seriously look at the Coast Guard and get into one of the units that do the Homeland Security type stuff. That will get you a security clearance, and with the clearance and the training will get you a good fulltime job with the feds or private security companies like Wackenhut, who do the nuke plant security.
http://www.gocoastguard.com
http://www.g4s.com/usw/usw-careers/usw-careers-career_opportunities.htm0 -
quote:Originally posted by git_r_done
I got 2 words for you:
GO ARMY![:D]
I'm with GRD on this one![:D]0 -
AF pilots are known to be snobs. Promotion as a non-flying officer is likely to be painfully slow. You might make Captain in 4 years, and likely spend most of your career in what many would consider dead-end jobs. I think if I was a young man and seriously looking at a military career or even looking to spend a few years in the military, I would want the Coast Guard, even as enlisted. The Coasties, based on what little I know, actually do something worthwhile. Years ago when I was in the AF, security guards were pretty much a half step above cooks. It is not my intent at all to denigrate AF security or cooks, as they are vital. Those jobs just don't seem like there is much potential for fun. 0 -
I know there's a little good-humored cynicism in what you say [:D]
My brother is a First Lieutenant. He was commissioned in May 2004. He's looking at getting pinned Captain this year. There's a lot of room in the Army's Officer Corps and there's plenty of room for promotion.
When you decide to either retire or resign your commission and get a job in the civilian world, the higher your rank the better your resume looks. I was in the County Sheriff's office near an area where I used to live and was basically told I could "walk on" if I got out of the Army as an E-6 or higher provided that I qualified in every other way. I made E-6 in 4 1/2 years. My potential for employment in the civilian law enforcement world in an area that used to interest me actually went up in a big way in 4 1/2 years. I don't know of any other service where those promotion opportunities exist that quickly provided that you do your part.0
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