Self Defense Round
I was looking around my local gunshop, and I started talking to the owner about how much power would be enough to stop someone. I asked him if a .38+p was enough to stop someone, and he told me that a lot of people only carry .17hmr and .22 caliber guns. He said the .22 and .17hmr might be able to stop someone, but it couldnt kill them, even if you got them in the head. Is this true, are these rounds really that weak? Please explain close and long range results.
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A gun, Any gun can kill someone. How well that gun kills someone can be a big difference. The point of a gun is to do damage to the parts that keep a body alive. Small guns like the .22 can be very deadly since the bullet usually transfers all of its energy into the body. Many .223 FMJ rounds CAN (not the same as will) pass right through you which is not good since there is little energy transfer to do damage. People that have used some drugs take much more damage to kill.
If you are carrying a gun for self defense you want something that will stop the attack as fast as you can. Will a .22 kill someone? YES. Will a .45 kill someone? YES. Which is more effective, I would say the larger the better assuming you are using ammo that transfers energy better. Easy way to look at it is why do you use soft point for hunting vs FMJ ammo?
I am guess that this dealer told you 12ga OO buckshot kills people in 1 shot every time too.... I have heard many reports of people being shot more then one time with buckshot and not killing them. I saw a person get shot from very close with OO buck and not have any lethal injuries. He was having a very bad night but he was in stable condition talking to me with great vital signs (I am a medic).0 -
i had a friend who was murdered with a 22 cal took 9 shots according to his sister 0 -
Hear tell 22 was used by hit men in the passed, one or two pops to the head, rounds do not come out, just bunce around and do mega dammage. 0 -
5.56mm (223) will not "pass right through" a body if military grade FMJ rounds are used. They create a devastating wound cavity when the projectile breaks up. Just ask any MD who has treated those wounded/killed by them. In addition there are several studies (some posted on the Web).
There is a reason that they are the choice of the US Military.
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There has been at least ONE documented fatal shooting with a 5mm AIR RIFLE. As the man said- any gun CAN kill someone. In self defense your goal is to STOP them. During the Moro uprising in the Phillipines, the US Army found that the guy with the machete might die after you shot him with your .38 Long Colt revolver- but he was going to kill you with that machete before he died. Which lead to the .45 ACP- which could STOP the bad guy. Do not confuse lethality and stopping power. And your advisor at the gun shop needs to get in a new line of work- something that he has knowledge of. 'Cause his knowledge of guns leaves a lot to be desired. 0 -
.22 (as I assume it's .22LR) is PLENTY to kill.
As to headshots - there are many variables. Shot placement, projectile weight/type/velocity..
Is the person hit in the forehead where the skull is thick and perhaps at an angle.? This might/might not bounce off. I've heard tell of both instances.
Is the person hit straight in the eye.?
The eye doesn't stand a chance - and neither does the back wall of the eye-socket. A standard .22LR to the eye is almost certainly fatal, as it will go straight to the brain.
Yes, .22LR subsonic IS or at least have been the caliber of choice by assasins. It's easy to silence, it's easy to make a follow-up shot or series of shots. Rumor has it, it's a 60-grain subsonic that's widely used. It will be easy to muffle/silence, and it will easily break a skull and bounce around inside the skull.
I've read somewhere - that the .22LR is the round that actually injure and kill most people on a worldwide scale each year. Haven't been able to find the article to back it up.
It might sound crazy, but take into account that the amount of .22LR ALONE, greatly surpasses the total amount of ALL OTHER rounds in ALL other calibers put together.
Also - people don't think it's so dangerous - and I've personally seen people give a 5-6-7 year old kid a pack of .22's and told them to go shoot in the back garden.
Now... THAT'S when accidents happens, eventhough the kid is alert of safety and have been taught well.
I took the liberty of assuming it was the .22LR..
As calibers like .22Lr, .22Mag, .22Hornet, .222Rem, .223Rem, .22-250 and such... ALL are .22-caliber guns. But when people say .22 caliber, they mean .22LR in most cases.0 -
The Mafia will sure be surprised to hear that a .22 can't kill anyone. I guess during all those hits the victims died of a heart attack instead of the gun shot wound.
Smitty0 -
One of the primary issues with a .22 wound is that the penetration channel is less visible. In an ER situation, it is difficult to determine what's damaged, and thus repair hemorrhaging organs. Many organs collapse around the tiny channel, and prevent a surgeon to find and sew up the damage. With 9mm, the hole is at least, easy to see. 0 -
...Find a dealer that is not full of hot air for starters, if he is inclined to tell you this garbage no telling what other poop he will spray your direction.
A .22 would not be my first choice as a "manstopper", but then there is no "perfect" manstopper rounds either...just some better than others. ANY cal bullet is much better than the best knife, bat, etc. The human body can take an ENORMOUS amount of punishment, more so than most could ever imagine.
A head shot can drop someone, only to have them flop around like a chicken with it's head wrung spewing a stream of blood and "alive", so to speak, unlike the movies often portray.
To bring DOWN a person with no if's and's or but's...shoot for the pelvic area and blow away their hip(s), the pelvic region offers a large target area.
A 22 can hit you in the shoulder and then wind up your sack, wreaking havoc on it's journey to nestle up against your boys.
...I subsribe to the "big hole" theory myself, the bigger the hole the better off I am. My main carry guns are all in 45acp, in the truck resides a 12g pump also, w/00...[;)]0 -
So now, in addition to the .45 LONG Colt(which doesn't exist), we now have a .38 LONG Colt, which also doesn't exist.
Let me take a moment to blow my brains out with my .25 LONG Colt.
Doug0
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