VA tech families and $
Some of the families of those killed at VA tech are saying they want to be compensated by the school and the state. They're saying they expect at least what the 9/11 victims' families got, which is an average of $2 million for fatalities and $400,000 for injuries.
Some families have said they are not looking for any money at all.
What do you think about this? In 9/11 many of those killed were family men and women, and money to help with raising the children and supporting the widow seemed reasonable. Here, though, most had no dependents at all.
Some families have said they are not looking for any money at all.
What do you think about this? In 9/11 many of those killed were family men and women, and money to help with raising the children and supporting the widow seemed reasonable. Here, though, most had no dependents at all.
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I don't think it should be a blanket award, and I don't think the award should make anyone rich.
Doug0 -
You can be sure that if a tornado/flood/fire ever hits my home the government had better be there pronto with a 32' trailer and a pre-paid debit card. Then I expect them to rebuild my home and compensate me for my troubles.[:D][:D] 0 -
I expect the gov to wipe my butt while they are paying for everything else i feel i and my family need/want. 0 -
When the government refuses to let the residents arm themselves with CCW on campuses, they assume the responsibility of protecting the students. The state failed in it's duties. The state is liable. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Captplaid
When the government refuses to let the residents arm themselves with CCW on campuses, they assume the responsibility of protecting the students. The state failed in it's duties. The state is liable.
+1
my sentiments exactly,
this was not some act of God but a situation exacerbated by direct government action (banning CCW on campus) add to that UNARMED campus-cops and you have a major liability issue.0 -
quote:Originally posted by KSUmarksman
quote:Originally posted by Captplaid
When the government refuses to let the residents arm themselves with CCW on campuses, they assume the responsibility of protecting the students. The state failed in it's duties. The state is liable.
+1
my sentiments exactly,
this was not some act of God but a situation exacerbated by direct government action (banning CCW on campus) add to that UNARMED campus-cops and you have a major liability issue.
Amen. But the general public has developed the mentality that the government is there to take complete care of them. Self reliance is going away. We've all seen what happeneds when the government assumes total responsability for something.0 -
I do think the school district, its policy makers, and the city the school is budgeted under should all be held liable, and the families should be compensated by them. I also think many of the policy makers (superintendents, and what not) should be penalized in some manner for their incompetence. If the state has a law that requires the kids to attend a public school, then they to should be held liable, if not I don't see how they could be liable. Cities shut down neighborhood schools and make bigger schools with larger student bodies and larger classrooms to save money, and don't have the means available to keep them safe. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Captplaid
When the government refuses to let the residents arm themselves with CCW on campuses, they assume the responsibility of protecting the students. The state failed in it's duties. The state is liable.
The Commonwealth of Virginia did NOT prohibit licensed CCW holders from arming themselves. That was a decision made by Virginia Tech Administration so the parents would feel comfortable that their little darlings were getting their education in a "safe environment". [:(!]0 -
quote:Originally posted by Spider7115
The Commonwealth of Virginia did NOT prohibit licensed CCW holders from arming themselves. That was a decision made by Virginia Tech Administration so the parents would feel comfortable that their little darlings were getting their education in a "safe environment". [:(!]
Ummmm, if I remember correctly, the state passed the law that CCW holders could NOT carry on public campuses. Ergo, if this is FACT then the state is VERY liable to pay just compensation to those families for failing in their duties.0 -
Actually since the School policy (no CCW allowed)and current attacks on 2nd IMO are directly responsible for at least 33% of the deaths I hope the families Clean up on this!!! I say 33% based on the story that there were at least 3 CCW's among the dead!!! I figure at least one, had they been not been denied their right to defend themselves would have dropped that freak like rock!!!
America needs to wake up before the next victims are little closer to home!!! I've said it before and I'll stand by the comment to the death...The Anti-Gunners set the VT victims up like ducks in a shooting gallery... When you deny a person the right to defend his life against a freak they are as guilty as if they had pulled the trigger themselves!!!!
Want to see the face of a killer, look no further...
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I can only speak for myself but I could not except one dollar of blood money. How you could ever spend one cent of it knowing how you got it, is beyond me. But that is only my feelings. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Nighthawk
I can only speak for myself but I could not except one dollar of blood money. How you could ever spend one cent of it knowing how you got it, is beyond me. But that is only my feelings.
New house, new car, new cloths the list for some of thise recipants goes on. It will make them feel a little better initally, but sooneer then later the euphoria will fade and the pain will be right back. Look at the 9/11 families, those who demanded governmetal pay out have been the most out spoken, the most persistant at wanting more from the gov.0 -
"I can only speak for myself but I could not except one dollar of blood money. How you could ever spend one cent of it knowing how you got it, is beyond me. But that is only my feelings."
I completely agree.
And we here, on this forum, complain about the things lawyers do ??
Doug0 -
FEEL GUILT ABOUT SPENDING IT? WTH? Do you feel guilty about spending life insurance? It IS the same thing. It is MONEY made from anothers DEATH. And in this case UNNECESSARY death. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by freemind
quote:Originally posted by Spider7115
The Commonwealth of Virginia did NOT prohibit licensed CCW holders from arming themselves. That was a decision made by Virginia Tech Administration so the parents would feel comfortable that their little darlings were getting their education in a "safe environment". [:(!]
Ummmm, if I remember correctly, the state passed the law that CCW holders could NOT carry on public campuses. Ergo, if this is FACT then the state is VERY liable to pay just compensation to those families for failing in their duties.
With all due respect, your memory is incorrect. The law applies to elementary, middle and high schools. Colleges and Universities, such as Virginia Tech, are allowed to establish their own policies and to violate that policy is a trespass charge only, not a concealed handgun violation:
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-308.1
? 18.2-308.1. Possession of firearm, stun weapon, or other weapon on school property prohibited.
A. If any person possesses any (i) stun weapon as defined in this section; (ii) knife, except a pocket knife having a folding metal blade of less than three inches; or (iii) weapon, including a weapon of like kind, designated in subsection A of ? 18.2-308, other than a firearm; upon (a) the property of any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds; (b) that portion of any property open to the public and then exclusively used for school-sponsored functions or extracurricular activities while such functions or activities are taking place; or (c) any school bus owned or operated by any such school, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.
B. If any person possesses any firearm designed or intended to expel a projectile by action of an explosion of a combustible material while such person is upon (i) any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds; (ii) that portion of any property open to the public and then exclusively used for school-sponsored functions or extracurricular activities while such functions or activities are taking place; or (iii) any school bus owned or operated by any such school, he shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony; however, if the person possesses any firearm within a public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school building and intends to use, or attempts to use, such firearm, or displays such weapon in a threatening manner, such person shall be sentenced to a mandatory minimum term of imprisonment of five years to be served consecutively with any other sentence.
The exemptions set out in ? 18.2-308 shall apply, mutatis mutandis, to the provisions of this section. The provisions of this section shall not apply to (i) persons who possess such weapon or weapons as a part of the school's curriculum or activities; (ii) a person possessing a knife customarily used for food preparation or service and using it for such purpose; (iii) persons who possess such weapon or weapons as a part of any program sponsored or facilitated by either the school or any organization authorized by the school to conduct its programs either on or off the school premises; (iv) any law-enforcement officer; (v) any person who possesses a knife or blade which he uses customarily in his trade; (vi) a person who possesses an unloaded firearm that is in a closed container, or a knife having a metal blade, in or upon a motor vehicle, or an unloaded shotgun or rifle in a firearms rack in or upon a motor vehicle; or (vii) a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, traffic circle, or other means of vehicular ingress or egress to the school. For the purposes of this paragraph, "weapon" includes a knife having a metal blade of three inches or longer and "closed container" includes a locked vehicle trunk.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Doug Wilson
And we here, on this forum, complain about the things lawyers do ??
Doug
No kidding...0 -
quote:Originally posted by Spider7115
With all due respect, your memory is incorrect. the law applies to elementary, middle and high schools. Colleges and Universities, such as Virginia Tech, are allowed to establish their own policies and to violate that policy is a trespass charge only, not a concealed handgun violation:
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-308.1
? 18.2-308.1. Possession of firearm, stun weapon, or other weapon on school property prohibited.
A. If any person possesses any (i) stun weapon as defined in this section; (ii) knife, except a pocket knife having a folding metal blade of less than three inches; or (iii) weapon, including a weapon of like kind, designated in subsection A of ? 18.2-308, other than a firearm; upon (a) the property of any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds; (b) that portion of any property open to the public and then exclusively used for school-sponsored functions or extracurricular activities while such functions or activities are taking place; or (c) any school bus owned or operated by any such school, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.
B. If any person possesses any firearm designed or intended to expel a projectile by action of an explosion of a combustible material while such person is upon (i) any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds; (ii) that portion of any property open to the public and then exclusively used for school-sponsored functions or extracurricular activities while such functions or activities are taking place; or (iii) any school bus owned or operated by any such school, he shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony; however, if the person possesses any firearm within a public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school building and intends to use, or attempts to use, such firearm, or displays such weapon in a threatening manner, such person shall be sentenced to a mandatory minimum term of imprisonment of five years to be served consecutively with any other sentence.
The exemptions set out in ? 18.2-308 shall apply, mutatis mutandis, to the provisions of this section. The provisions of this section shall not apply to (i) persons who possess such weapon or weapons as a part of the school's curriculum or activities; (ii) a person possessing a knife customarily used for food preparation or service and using it for such purpose; (iii) persons who possess such weapon or weapons as a part of any program sponsored or facilitated by either the school or any organization authorized by the school to conduct its programs either on or off the school premises; (iv) any law-enforcement officer; (v) any person who possesses a knife or blade which he uses customarily in his trade; (vi) a person who possesses an unloaded firearm that is in a closed container, or a knife having a metal blade, in or upon a motor vehicle, or an unloaded shotgun or rifle in a firearms rack in or upon a motor vehicle; or (vii) a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, traffic circle, or other means of vehicular ingress or egress to the school. For the purposes of this paragraph, "weapon" includes a knife having a metal blade of three inches or longer and "closed container" includes a locked vehicle trunk.
I stand corrected. Thank you. But here is some food for thought. Some states do not allow localities, counties, townships, ect to pass restrictions on ccw other than what the STATE sets. By the VA legislature not doing the same they have SOME responsibility in this.
So, while I stand corrected, I am not totally off base here.0 -
quote:Originally posted by freemind
quote:Originally posted by Spider7115
The Commonwealth of Virginia did NOT prohibit licensed CCW holders from arming themselves. That was a decision made by Virginia Tech Administration so the parents would feel comfortable that their little darlings were getting their education in a "safe environment". [:(!]
Ummmm, if I remember correctly, the state passed the law that CCW holders could NOT carry on public campuses. Ergo, if this is FACT then the state is VERY liable to pay just compensation to those families for failing in their duties.
http://www.roanoke.com/news/nrv/wb/xp-21770
Virginia Tech's ban on guns may draw legal fire
Some people question whether the university has the authority to ban the carrying of firearms. How about you?
By Kevin Miller
381-1676
BLACKSBURG - Virginia Tech's recent action against a student caught carrying a gun to class could draw unwanted attention from groups already angry about firearms restrictions on public college campuses.
University officials confirmed that, earlier this semester, campus police approached a student found to be carrying a concealed handgun to class. The unnamed student was not charged with any crimes because he holds a state-issued permit allowing him to carry a concealed gun. But the student could face disciplinary action from the university for violating its policy prohibiting "unauthorized possession, storage or control" of firearms on campus.
Tech spokesman Larry Hincker declined to release the student's name or specifics of the incident, citing rules protecting student confidentiality. But Hincker said Tech's ban on guns dates back several decades.
Students who violate the school policy could be called before the university's internal judicial affairs system, which has wide discretion in handing down penalties ranging from a reprimand to expulsion.
"I think it's fair to say that we believe guns don't belong in the classroom," Hincker said. "In an academic environment, we believe you should be free from fear."
Most public colleges in Virginia ban or restrict guns on campus. But the root of that authority is murky, according to some observers.
Virginia law already prohibits students or visitors from carrying guns onto the grounds of public and private K-12 schools. The state also prohibits concealed weapons in courthouses, places of worship during a service, jails and on any private property where the owner has posted a "no guns" notice. State employees are barred from possessing guns while at work unless needed for their job.
But Virginia code is silent on guns and public colleges. And two bills seeking to give college governing boards the authority to regulate firearms on campus died in committee during this year's General Assembly session.
David Briggman, a resident of Keezletown in Rockingham County, has made it his personal mission to challenge state colleges' authority to enact tougher gun restrictions than the state.
Briggman, who is a former police officer, said he forced Blue Ridge Community College to allow him to carry a gun onto campus while a student. And he sued James Madison University over its ban on concealed weapons even among permit holders. While JMU's policy still stands, Briggman said he has been told by campus police officials that they will not arrest visitors who carry a gun legally.
"It's extremely easy to challenge university policy by looking at ... whether they are given the statutory authority to regulate firearms on campus, and of course, they're not," Briggman said Tuesday.
Hincker, meanwhile, said it is not unusual for colleges to have more restrictive policies than the state. As an example, Hincker said certain chemicals and explosives that are legal on the outside are prohibited in the classroom or in dormitories for safety reasons.
"We think we have the right to adhere to and enforce that policy because, in the end, we think it's a common-sense policy for the protection of students, staff and faculty as well as guests and visitors," Hincker said.
Virginia Tech also has the backing of the Virginia Association of Chiefs of Police. In a policy position paper dated April 1, association executive director Dana Schrad wrote that the presence of guns on college campuses "adds a dangerous element to an environment in which alcohol is a compounding factor." Students should not have to be concerned about guns on campus, Schrad wrote.
"The excellent reputation of Virginia's colleges and universities depends in part on the public's belief that they are sending their college-age children to safe environments," the policy paper reads.
At least one attorney who represents college students would like to see the concealed-carry permit issue clarified.
John Robertson, the Student Legal Services attorney at Tech, said he's heard differing interpretations of the policy at Tech. Robertson, whose position is funded through the Student Government Association's budget, does not represent students in disputes with the university but offers free legal advice and services to students on civil and criminal matters.
Robertson said he would like to see either a court or the state Attorney General's Office resolve the matter. As for a university's refusal to honor a concealed-carry permit, Robertson added: "I am dubious that one particular arm of the state can do so without a particular statute."
Hincker acknowledged that the concealed guns issue had "never been tested" and that the university could be opening itself up to legal action.
"But we stand by the policy unequivocally," Hincker said.0 -
Give it to charity, whatever... Personally I look at it this way...When a school, and politicians make a stupid rule and that stupid rule is freaking wrong, and 33 people die because of it... Then the makers of that stupid rule better hope they have their malpractice insurance paid up. And when those stupid rules also happen to be a direct attempt to systematically destroy the 2nd Amendment those involved should be hauled out of their offices and publicly hanged for the murder that they helped setup!!!
If you take away my right to defend myself both YOU and the freak that killed me are guilty of murder!
America is a country of morons, for only a moron would take the gun out of the hand of a good man Thinking that by some miracle of God the freaks are going to comply a lay theirs down as well...Of course Ms Feinstein has came up with a freaking great arguement against my rant...Who cares if a few million good people that can't defend themselves die...It'll just make more room for the more desirable Dianne Frankenstein voting Mexicans...0
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