Feel sick I sold him the Glock
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime_file/2007/04/18/2007-04-18_feel_sick_i_sold_him_the_glock.html
Feel sick I sold him the Glock
But store owner sez he's not 'responsible' -
killer was calm and passed an FBI check
BY JAMES GORDON MEEK
DAILY NEWS WASHINGTON BUREAU
Wednesday, April 18th 2007, 4:00 AM
Print Email Suggest a Story Discuss
John Markell, the owner of the Roanoke, Va., gun shop that sold Cho Seung-hui a 9-mm., holds the same model Glock handgun that Cho used in his campus massacre.
ROANOKE, Va. - John Markell sat in a blue minivan in the parking lot of his ramshackle gun shop yesterday, agonizing over the Glock 19 he sold to the Virginia Tech killer only a few weeks ago.
Markell, 58, was not there the day Cho Seung-hui bought the 9-mm. handgun from a clerk - but he cashed his check.
"I don't feel I'm responsible, but I just feel terrible he used one of our guns," Markell told the Daily News in a barely audible whisper.
The longtime sportsman in dark aviator sunglasses and a black Glock-logo baseball hat appeared so distraught that bystanders told him they were sorry.
Despite his regret, Markell presides over an impressive arsenal.
Through a glass door with a picture of Osama Bin Laden under a red bull's-eye, lay one large display case with 20 military-style M-4 assault rifles. Hundreds of handguns and a Kalashnikov were laid out in glass cases.
For $3,875, anyone with a clean record, cash and three IDs can buy a .50-caliber Barrett sniper rifle from Markell.
The Glock 19 - an Austrian police firearm made in Georgia - was just like the one Markell picked up from the floorboard of his minivan during an interview. He pulled the slide back and demonstrated how simple it is to load the 15-round magazine.
"I was already just torn up over the tragedy," Markell said about first hearing news of the massacre.
But when the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives agents showed up at the store Monday night and said a sales receipt from his shop was found on Cho's corpse, Markell said he "was pretty numb."
Markell noted the purchase was legal. The future mass murderer was carefully observed by the clerk who sold the gun and he acted normally.
He showed a Virginia driver's license, his checkbook and his immigration card and was approved by the FBI's instant check crime computer, Markell said.
The Glock came with two magazines and Cho bought one box with 50 rounds of low-velocity "plinker" ammo for shooting paper targets, Markell said.
With customers getting spooked over the notoriety and a staff ready to quit because Markell keeps giving interviews to reporters from as far away as Uganda, the chagrined gun dealer said he would likely get out of the business.
"I'd sell cheap today," he said.
Feel sick I sold him the Glock
But store owner sez he's not 'responsible' -
killer was calm and passed an FBI check
BY JAMES GORDON MEEK
DAILY NEWS WASHINGTON BUREAU
Wednesday, April 18th 2007, 4:00 AM
Print Email Suggest a Story Discuss
John Markell, the owner of the Roanoke, Va., gun shop that sold Cho Seung-hui a 9-mm., holds the same model Glock handgun that Cho used in his campus massacre.
ROANOKE, Va. - John Markell sat in a blue minivan in the parking lot of his ramshackle gun shop yesterday, agonizing over the Glock 19 he sold to the Virginia Tech killer only a few weeks ago.
Markell, 58, was not there the day Cho Seung-hui bought the 9-mm. handgun from a clerk - but he cashed his check.
"I don't feel I'm responsible, but I just feel terrible he used one of our guns," Markell told the Daily News in a barely audible whisper.
The longtime sportsman in dark aviator sunglasses and a black Glock-logo baseball hat appeared so distraught that bystanders told him they were sorry.
Despite his regret, Markell presides over an impressive arsenal.
Through a glass door with a picture of Osama Bin Laden under a red bull's-eye, lay one large display case with 20 military-style M-4 assault rifles. Hundreds of handguns and a Kalashnikov were laid out in glass cases.
For $3,875, anyone with a clean record, cash and three IDs can buy a .50-caliber Barrett sniper rifle from Markell.
The Glock 19 - an Austrian police firearm made in Georgia - was just like the one Markell picked up from the floorboard of his minivan during an interview. He pulled the slide back and demonstrated how simple it is to load the 15-round magazine.
"I was already just torn up over the tragedy," Markell said about first hearing news of the massacre.
But when the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives agents showed up at the store Monday night and said a sales receipt from his shop was found on Cho's corpse, Markell said he "was pretty numb."
Markell noted the purchase was legal. The future mass murderer was carefully observed by the clerk who sold the gun and he acted normally.
He showed a Virginia driver's license, his checkbook and his immigration card and was approved by the FBI's instant check crime computer, Markell said.
The Glock came with two magazines and Cho bought one box with 50 rounds of low-velocity "plinker" ammo for shooting paper targets, Markell said.
With customers getting spooked over the notoriety and a staff ready to quit because Markell keeps giving interviews to reporters from as far away as Uganda, the chagrined gun dealer said he would likely get out of the business.
"I'd sell cheap today," he said.
0
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$3875 for a Barrett?
Where is this guy's gunshop again????0 -
Hope this doesn't sound too un-sympathetic to what happened but,
One of my first thoughs when this went down was, I sure wouldn't want to be the dealer that sold Cho the guns. Legal or not. Just because of exactly what he's going through right now with the ATF, press, public srutiny, etc.
He did nothing wrong. Period. If it was me, I'd feel bad for what happened, but I'd feel NO resposibility whatsoever for what took place. Definately wouldn't close shop over it. If Cho didn't get them from him he would have got them down the street at the next shop. It's just as simple as that.
Ben0 -
quote:Originally posted by jbw1776
Hope this doesn't sound too un-sympathetic to what happened but,
One of my first thoughs when this went down was, I sure wouldn't want to be the dealer that sold Cho the guns. Legal or not. Just because of exactly what he's going through right now with the ATF, press, public srutiny, etc.
He did nothing wrong. Period. If it was me, I'd feel bad for what happened, but I'd feel NO resposibility whatsoever for what took place. Definately wouldn't close shop over it. If Cho didn't get them from him he would have got them down the street at the next shop. It's just as simple as that.
Ben
Agreed!0 -
Question:
When a person is attacked with a knife or repeatedly stabbed to death or systematically dismembered by some maniac, does the media ever report on where the murderer obtained or possibly bought the cutlery? The cleaver? The machete? Department store? On-line? Home Show? Or, what brand? Or the type of blade, i.e. slicing, butcher, fillet, chef's, boning, etc.?
How many chainsaw dealers have publicly apologized for selling one to a bloodthirsty psycho?
Does anyone who legitimately buys and sells knives and cutlery for a living ever come forward and express regrets and sorrow about a reprehensible act committed with a blade by some lunatic?
Has any car company ever contacted the family of a deceased individual to express sorrow or regret for making and selling the car that ultimately killed the decedent, regardless of the circumstances?
I didn't think so.0 -
How can someone who is not a citizen buy a gun in this country! Blows me away![:0]
My guess is this guy is going to get sued in so many directions that he should leave the country on the next train to Mexico.[:0]
He did everything right except grant the interviews. Should have clammed up and just talked to authorities. His admission of feeling bad is a guilty plea in the eyes of a liberal attorney.[;)]0 -
Here's what I don't understand. The shooter was stalking at least two women, one woman got the police involved. The shooter was ordered to undergo a psychological examination, and the court declared him to be a "danger to himself and others." So how was he allowed to buy a gun? Correct me if I'm wrong, but people who have been declared mentally-deranged aren't permitted to buy or possess firearms, isn't that why background checks exist in the first place? To keep lunatics like this guy from buying a gun? Why wasn't this information in the NICS system? Do the courts not have a means of reporting the criminally-deranged to the FBI? This seems like a big gaping loophole in the background check system, what's the point of background checks if people who have been declared by the courts to be a "danger to others" can buy a gun? 0 -
quote:Originally posted by ObiWan
$3875 for a Barrett?
Where is this guy's gunshop again????
They didn't mention the model. The Barrett 99's MSRP is only $4,000. A lot of gun shops charge less than MSRP.
http://barrettrifles.com/rifle_99.aspx0 -
quote:Originally posted by warriorsfan
Here's what I don't understand. The shooter was stalking at least two women, one woman got the police involved. The shooter was ordered to undergo a psychological examination, and the court declared him to be a "danger to himself and others." So how was he allowed to buy a gun? Correct me if I'm wrong, but people who have been declared mentally-deranged aren't permitted to buy or possess firearms, isn't that why background checks exist in the first place? To keep lunatics like this guy from buying a gun? Why wasn't this information in the NICS system? Do the courts not have a means of reporting the criminally-deranged to the FBI? This seems like a big gaping loophole in the background check system, what's the point of background checks if people who have been declared by the courts to be a "danger to others" can buy a gun?
You have got a good, solid point. Maybe this is where the lawsuits should start![;)] Oooooops.....can't sue the FBI!0 -
quote:Originally posted by git_r_done
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime_file/2007/04/18/2007-04-18_feel_sick_i_sold_him_the_glock.html
Feel sick I sold him the Glock
But store owner sez he's not 'responsible' -
killer was calm and passed an FBI check
BY JAMES GORDON MEEK
DAILY NEWS WASHINGTON BUREAU
Wednesday, April 18th 2007, 4:00 AM
Print Email Suggest a Story Discuss
John Markell, the owner of the Roanoke, Va., gun shop that sold Cho Seung-hui a 9-mm., holds the same model Glock handgun that Cho used in his campus massacre.
ROANOKE, Va. - John Markell sat in a blue minivan in the parking lot of his ramshackle gun shop yesterday, agonizing over the Glock 19 he sold to the Virginia Tech killer only a few weeks ago.
Markell, 58, was not there the day Cho Seung-hui bought the 9-mm. handgun from a clerk - but he cashed his check.
"I don't feel I'm responsible, but I just feel terrible he used one of our guns," Markell told the Daily News in a barely audible whisper.
The longtime sportsman in dark aviator sunglasses and a black Glock-logo baseball hat appeared so distraught that bystanders told him they were sorry.
Despite his regret, Markell presides over an impressive arsenal.
Through a glass door with a picture of Osama Bin Laden under a red bull's-eye, lay one large display case with 20 military-style M-4 assault rifles. Hundreds of handguns and a Kalashnikov were laid out in glass cases.
For $3,875, anyone with a clean record, cash and three IDs can buy a .50-caliber Barrett sniper rifle from Markell.
The Glock 19 - an Austrian police firearm made in Georgia - was just like the one Markell picked up from the floorboard of his minivan during an interview. He pulled the slide back and demonstrated how simple it is to load the 15-round magazine.
"I was already just torn up over the tragedy," Markell said about first hearing news of the massacre.
But when the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives agents showed up at the store Monday night and said a sales receipt from his shop was found on Cho's corpse, Markell said he "was pretty numb."
Markell noted the purchase was legal. The future mass murderer was carefully observed by the clerk who sold the gun and he acted normally.
He showed a Virginia driver's license, his checkbook and his immigration card and was approved by the FBI's instant check crime computer, Markell said.
The Glock came with two magazines and Cho bought one box with 50 rounds of low-velocity "plinker" ammo for shooting paper targets, Markell said.
With customers getting spooked over the notoriety and a staff ready to quit because Markell keeps giving interviews to reporters from as far away as Uganda, the chagrined gun dealer said he would likely get out of the business.
"I'd sell cheap today," he said.
And why shouldn't they be able to?!?!?[}:)][}:)]
It just irks me because they make that statement, like why in the world is this possible, oh my goodness, it can't be!![:(!][:(!][:(!]0 -
does this man have a web page
(we) as in gun owners chould contact him and tell him to stay in the
buisness (he) did it buy the ATF book not his fault0 -
Sig232- A resident alien with a "Green card" can buy a gun and I believe he can serve in the military. He is considered a permanent resident. I think the only thing he can't do is vote.
Why is this dealer talking to the press? He should lock the doors and send everyone on a 30 day vacation and "No comment" would be the only words passing my lips. I would also be looking for a good lawyer experienced in firearm related lawsuits because they are coming... dozens of them.0 -
quote:
"I'd sell cheap today," he said.
the reporter called it a "RamSchackle", but I hope he stays in Business.0 -
My interview would consist of, " We did nothing wrong or illegal. No further comments. No more interviews."
But, trying to put myself in that guy's shoes, the situation would be much tougher to handle than guessing at how we might feel about it, considering we had nothing to do with it.
Despite no fault of his own. It would be hard on anybody. I would not be looking to sell the shop cheap though.
All the publicity, albeit bad, will probably increase his business actually.0 -
quote:Originally posted by SaxonPig
Sig232- A resident alien with a "Green card" can buy a gun and I believe he can serve in the military. He is considered a permanent resident. I think the only thing he can't do is vote.
Why is this dealer talking to the press? He should lock the doors and send everyone on a 30 day vacation and "No comment" would be the only words passing my lips. I would also be looking for a good lawyer experienced in firearm related lawsuits because they are coming... dozens of them.
Right, and isn't it ironic that illegals are able to vote in some states?0 -
quote:Originally posted by vess1
All the publicity, albeit bad, will probably increase his business actually.
I'd say that's exactly why he's entertaining interviews.0 -
If the killers right to privacy wasn't more important than our right to life then some of this would be different. The ACLU argued that a persons mental health is to private to include in a NICS check thus the "mental well being" part of the form is left up to the honesty of the buyer. NICS doesn't have access to the mental records of someone buying a gun! The ACLU places a nuts privacy over your life. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by wizard78
If the killers right to privacy wasn't more important than our right to life then some of this would be different. The ACLU argued that a persons mental health is to private to include in a NICS check thus the "mental well being" part of the form is left up to the honesty of the buyer. NICS doesn't have access to the mental records of someone buying a gun! The ACLU places a nuts privacy over your life.
I agree about the physician-patient confidentiality part. Who would go to a doctor to get help if they knew their doctor was going to pick up the phone and call the police or the FBI as soon as you left the office?
But this wasn't a privacy concern. It was a judge who declared him to be a danger to himself and others, not a doctor. Since it was a matter of the courts, I think that makes it a public matter and not a private one. Do judges and the courts not have means to enter this type of information into the NICS database? Not only that, but from a police safety standpoint, shouldn't officers have access to that type of infromation on LEIN? Shouldn't the police have access to the same information that the courts have? It seems like there's a problem here involving communication between the different arms of the criminal justice system.0 -
quote:Originally posted by SaxonPig
Sig232- A resident alien with a "Green card" can buy a gun and I believe he can serve in the military. He is considered a permanent resident. I think the only thing he can't do is vote.
Why is this dealer talking to the press? He should lock the doors and send everyone on a 30 day vacation and "No comment" would be the only words passing my lips. I would also be looking for a good lawyer experienced in firearm related lawsuits because they are coming... dozens of them.
Thanks for the info! I am surprised that it is legal for Green Card holders to purchase guns in this country. That does not make sense to me. But then the liberals seem to want to give illegials full citizenship rights.0 -
according to the state police here in va. when cho was commited it was VOLUNTARILY, if you are INVOLUNTARILY commited to a mental institution you can not buy guns. BUT voluntarily you can keep you right to purchase, which absolutely makes no sense to me, if a court says you are mental THEY should forward that info to the state police and it should be they're job to make sure he isn't allowed to buy guns, basically the state police and va. courts dropped the ball bigtime on this one...... sound right to you guys? 0 -
Cho likely knew exactly what he was doing as far as purchasing firearms. He could have easily purchased from a private seller. 0 -
I guarantee that this is GOING to close this store....no if, ands or buts about it.
When a gun store has something happen to put it in "the light" it runs people off and slowly it will become unable to stay in business. Gun people are definately skiddish when it comes to the authorities....even though they are not breaking any rules or laws. Usually, they just don't want the ATF or FBI looking at them or into what they own. So, they will not be shopping at that store and he will not be there long.
He may have some come by to "show support" and there will be sales....but not the regular dependable OVERHEAD PAYING kind of business. After a while he will be able to have a store and nobody will think twice of it.
If it happened to me and that NUT JOB had bought from my store...I would close the doors and NEVER open them again....sell what inventory I have on line and to the local businesses and do what I could to get things moving to another location in about two to three years. He should NEVER speak to the media. That is a major NO-NO!!!!0 -
I have seen two gun stores that were near where I lived that were quickly run out of bussiness after the owners each killed a gunman during a holdup.
In each case the robbers were members of local gangs & their homeboys harrassed their customers & drove them out of bussiness.0 -
quote:Through a glass door with a picture of Osama Bin Laden under a red bull's-eye, lay one large display case with 20 military-style M-4 assault rifles. Hundreds of handguns and a Kalashnikov were laid out in glass cases.
For $3,875, anyone with a clean record, cash and three IDs can buy a .50-caliber Barrett sniper rifle from Markell.
If this is a ramshackeled gun shop I would like to see a high end one0 -
quote:Originally posted by warriorsfan
Here's what I don't understand. The shooter was stalking at least two women, one woman got the police involved. The shooter was ordered to undergo a psychological examination, and the court declared him to be a "danger to himself and others." So how was he allowed to buy a gun? Correct me if I'm wrong, but people who have been declared mentally-deranged aren't permitted to buy or possess firearms, isn't that why background checks exist in the first place? To keep lunatics like this guy from buying a gun? Why wasn't this information in the NICS system? Do the courts not have a means of reporting the criminally-deranged to the FBI? This seems like a big gaping loophole in the background check system, what's the point of background checks if people who have been declared by the courts to be a "danger to others" can buy a gun?
Apparently the locality he was ordered to get this psychiatric examination from "didn't have the funds to forward their records to the Federal authorities." I'm not sure why that happened, but it never made it into the Federal database.
And there's another thing to be learned here - the woman he was stalking didn't press charges.
IF SOMEONE IS STALKING YOU - PRESS CHARGES. The a**hole is a danger to you, a danger to others, and by "not wanting to cause trouble" you are vitually ensuring that trouble will happen.
If she had pressed charges, this would not have happened.
If the locality had forwarded the info to the Feds, this would not have happened.
If a responsible gun owner had been on that campus, this would not have happened.
We know what went wrong people. Let's do something about it.0 -
I personally have shopped at Roanoke Firearms many times. John, the Owner, and his staff are friendly, sharp, honest and interested in their customers. Although I no longer live in Roanoke, I regularly go out of my way to stop by to "say hi and kick a tire or two". The reporter described the shop as "ramshackle", but it's a great place. Not big, but clean, well-stocked, well-located and well-lit. I called one of John's staff a couple of nights ago to express my concern for them. Perhaps you'll do the same--their number is (540) 366-9707. Better yet, use your credit card and buy something from them. But skip the "pro gun" rhetoric if you call them. Now's not the time. Now's the time to simply say "Hang in there guys--we're thinking of you!" 0 -
Does this mean the next fatality caused by a drunk driver will cause the bar who last served the driver with a drink, and the dealership that sold him the car to close? 0 -
If they want to blame somebody blame the FBI they're the ones that approved the sale.
Something that really ticks me off on this whole thing is the fact that I have a C&R License and CCW Licenses in 6 different states and when I go purchase a new gun I get put on delay every single time! But yet here's a foreigner that can buy a gun with no problems. Piss on the government I'm sick of them.
Smitty0 -
Killer passed the check!!! Bottom line....
I just don't get it... as I said the other day I once failed because my zipcode didn't jive on my DL...
I see guys fail at guns shows all the time. Often because their name is similar to a bad guys... I even talked to a guy that fails everytime and has to wait and pick up his purchase at the next show or drive to the dealer shop later in the week...
Frankly it is hard for me to believe this happened! And evidently it happened twice, since the shooter evidently bought his weapons a two different places.
Something is very very wrong here. It is almost like...like someone wants the system to fail... The only acceptable explanation that I can handle in my mind is that he purchased these guns before he was determined to be a danger to himself and others. I now am having serious doubts that his condition was ever even reported...0
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