The Mistake In Iraq
I really believe that our greatest mistake in Iraq was that we did not crush these terrorists while we could have. They should have attacked every stronghold, one right after another following the Battle of Faluja. Instead we ice cream footed around and held trials against American Soldiers for killing terrorists. The American fighting men were pulled back into a defensive and now we are trying to win this war the "nice way"
I would have a hard time asking any American to fight on forign soil and then watch the leaders tie their hands and the media mock them.
The leaders make a great mistake when they ask our men to achieve an objective and then tell them they can't do it the only way it should have ben done.
I know I am not over there but these are just the feelings I have about this war at this time.
I would have a hard time asking any American to fight on forign soil and then watch the leaders tie their hands and the media mock them.
The leaders make a great mistake when they ask our men to achieve an objective and then tell them they can't do it the only way it should have ben done.
I know I am not over there but these are just the feelings I have about this war at this time.
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we just need to make it a parking lot. 0 -
+1 0 -
quote:held trials against American Soldiers for killing terrorists. Yeah, I'm sure that 14 year old girl knew everything about Al Qaeda's plans... just needed a little "persuading" to get her to open her mouth, right? 0 -
pretty hard to justify the freedom rhetoric if the plan becomes to blow up anything that moves 0 -
quote:Originally posted by ElMuertoMonkey
quote:held trials against American Soldiers for killing terrorists. Yeah, I'm sure that 14 year old girl knew everything about Al Qaeda's plans... just needed a little "persuading" to get her to open her mouth, right?
I was not even thinking about a 14 year old girl.0 -
The "mistake in Iraq" was invading it in the first place. 0 -
i have not heard a SINGLE american politician say this "sunnis and shiites, please stop killing each other" or "there is no good reason why the sunnis and shiites are killing each other" 0 -
quote:Originally posted by KSUmarksman
pretty hard to justify the freedom rhetoric if the plan becomes to blow up anything that moves
Gun Broker dogma insists that we reserve the right to nuke every country and destroy every living thing on this planet. We must also offer demonstrations of our military might by firing off an occassional ICBM with a blank load in order to scare the hell out of people (I'm sure that terrorists around the world will tremble at our feet and beg us for forgiveness after the launch). Turning Iraq into a parking lot would have cost no where near the 400 billion we have pi$$ed away over there nor cost us the 3000 brave Americans who gave up their lives on this folly. Note that the Gun Broker Gripe Group wants to free Iraq and make it a safe place but also demands that we exterminate every Muslim on the planet (excepting Iraqis)...You figure that one out!0 -
The only "mistake" made in the GWOT was to let the Democraps know we were going in!
They have to make their parallels to Vietnam in order to change public opinion for the "better". The only time the Dems feel empowered is when they are attacking our troops or any Republican.
So, surprise, surprise; after only six years of constant negative press about the Prez, his advisors, his plans, his Cabinet, his Foreign Policy, and his religion: some polls show a portion of the country has swallowed the BS and is now against the war.
If our troops had been able to fight this engagement as thoroughly as we did in almost any other situation in the last century; we would have been through with the problem long ago, and would be whining about what to do with all that oil revenue!
Remember that the entire country of irak is a construct; the British conglomerated the tribes in the area and called the resulting "state" irak. They don't recognize a single country, there's no National Pride, they just want to grow up to be head Wallah, and lead a (admittedly psychotic) religious war against "infidels" not so they can live in any better conditions or have greater economic growth, but to convert or kill all unbelievers. How F'd up is that?!0 -
Some of us that have been against this little adventure from the very beginning recognized that we do not have leaders willing to take the steps necessary to win.
Not willing to win...stay the hell home.
Those blaming the Democrats/news media/waR protestors are merely looking for the way out of admitting that they backed a man interested in making lots of money for his buddies...and not in securing America.0 -
quote:Gun Broker dogma insists that we reserve the right to nuke every country and destroy every living thing on this planet. We must also offer demonstrations of our military might by firing off an occassional ICBM with a blank load in order to scare the hell out of people (I'm sure that terrorists around the world will tremble at our feet and beg us for forgiveness after the launch). Turning Iraq into a parking lot would have cost no where near the 400 billion we have pi$$ed away over there nor cost us the 3000 brave Americans who gave up their lives on this folly. Note that the Gun Broker Gripe Group wants to free Iraq and make it a safe place but also demands that we exterminate every Muslim on the planet (excepting Iraqis)...You figure that one out!
Could you kindly provide some links to support your assertions regarding this often referenced "Gun Broker Dogma"?
Perhaps you have focused on occasional, random posts by individual members and it suits your political agenda to paint the whole board with the same broad brush?
Who, exactly, IS the "Gunbroker Gripe Group" little HAIRY?
Without some kind of particulars to support it, I would submit that the above post is just more bedwetting, liberal blather.[:o)]0 -
quote:Originally posted by hotshoot
we just need to make it a parking lot.
A glass parking lot.0 -
[^] You are right on the money MVP. You have hit the nail right on the head. Unfortunately we have not learned ANY lessons from VietNam. We are doing the same things which cost us so Dearly in that conflict, and once again we are allowing politics to decide war/tactical policy. If we don't grow the 'nads we need to have some spine and backbone for conducting a war to kill our enemies and destroy the despots and tyrants that need to be killed, we are going to continue down this sad and ridiculous road of conducting sham trials of soldiers for committing war.
Even sadder, I don't know if our country has the stomach to do the job right as the liberal major media will continue to color us as the bad guys of the globe, when we are the ones every one turns to when the tyrants run amok. We need to start calling out the treasonous for what they are, and not let them hide wrongfully under their sham excuse of freedom of the press and freedom of speech. They are making a mockery of those freedoms and acting seditiously and treasonously, and they need to be taken to task on that or we need to be able to ignore them and put them in the place where they belong when they speak so outrageously and ridiculously.0 -
"The only "mistake" made in the GWOT was to let the Democraps know we were going in!
They have to make their parallels to Vietnam in order to change public opinion for the "better". The only time the Dems feel empowered is when they are attacking our troops or any Republican.
So, surprise, surprise; after only six years of constant negative press about the Prez, his advisors, his plans, his Cabinet, his Foreign Policy, and his religion: some polls show a portion of the country has swallowed the BS and is now against the war."
Prior to the war, the Army Chief of Staff told the administration that 150,000 troops were not nearly enough, but that twice that number was needed. It was a Republican President who fired that knowledgable man. It was a Republican Secretary of Defense who insisted that 150,000 troops would be plenty.
After 4 years of disastrous decisions by a Republican congress and administration, now that things have gone to crap, some want to blame Democrats. Go figure.0 -
...Ask Germany, Japan and other countries if overwhelming force and killing everything that moved did not play an itty bitty part in their decision to give it up. War is the most horendous activity ever concieved/propagated by mankind. No "John Wayne", apple pie crap...gore, fear, horror and grief, is war...that's why it's called war.
We as a nation seem to have lost our stomach to do what needs to be done. Will innocient civies, men, women, and children die? YES! Will brave American soldiers die? Yes! AND??? IT'S WAR!
This does not mean that every soldier that has knowngly taken a life, does not have that "feeling" that goes with killing someone you don't even know, much less hate, again, IT'S war!
In war, you had better be in it to win, or else YOU lose, YOU die...few second chances. Woulda/coulda/shoulda...God and country don't matter a tinkers damn when your wearing what is left of your friend that was next to you just moments before.
We as a country better get on the same page and stop with all the blame game crap and focus on the real threat. There IS an enemy out there that has publicly VOWED to destroy us. What the hell more does anyone need to know???? Here we are facing an enemy that is TELLING us they want us dead! THAT, is almost unprecidented!
Yet some sit back and boo-haa the idea! I honestly do not know what it will take for these people to acknowledge the fact we ARE in a war, probably nothing!
We will be hit again, and maybe the next attack will be far worse than 9/11, but I fear that too...will not open their eyes. The peace freaks will just call it an isolated incident, and call for LEO's to handle it.
Maybe if we loose an entire city to a nuke, or biological attack....these people will realize we have a "problem", but nothing more...just a "problem".
I see people here all the time laughing, making jokes at the idea of the terroist hammering America, because the terroist "are not supported as Japan, or Germany was backed, by a central government or military...so they poo-poo the thought.
Without the above stated criteria, 9/11 did a pretty damn good number on us. The terroist wont be comming by ship, they wont be dropping from the sky, they wont be storming the beaches in a giant "D-Day" type assault. Yet I see the libs mocking the "overstated" terrorist threat...as if these were their plans for destroying America. I'd mock those types of threats too, if THAT were part of their battle plan! THAT is not the way the terroist think, or operate, get a grip.
When the next attack(s) happen, and thousands of Americans die, our economy is thrown into a tailspin..you who think the terroist threat is way overblown, non exsistant, or a propagated propaganda campaign...will still feel the same; because you don't comphrehend the threat now...[V]
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quote:Originally posted by MVP
quote:Originally posted by ElMuertoMonkey
quote:held trials against American Soldiers for killing terrorists. Yeah, I'm sure that 14 year old girl knew everything about Al Qaeda's plans... just needed a little "persuading" to get her to open her mouth, right?
I was not even thinking about a 14 year old girl.
EMM was pointing out that the American troops put on trial were there for intentionally killing innocent civilians, not terrorists. For example, Army Private Steve Green and two other soliders raped and murdered a 14-year old Iraqi girl and then killed her family to cover it up, this was after "watching" the girl for two weeks so they could learn her daily routine and plan the best way to ambush and rape her.
It was later discovered that Steve Green entered the Army under the "moral waiver" program that excuses past criminal behavior, he literally went straight from jail into the Army. He was also diagnosed by an Army psychiatrist as having Anti-Social Personality Disorder, AKA he was a confirmed sociopath.0 -
quote:Originally posted by warriorsfan
quote:Originally posted by MVP
quote:Originally posted by ElMuertoMonkey
quote:held trials against American Soldiers for killing terrorists. Yeah, I'm sure that 14 year old girl knew everything about Al Qaeda's plans... just needed a little "persuading" to get her to open her mouth, right?
I was not even thinking about a 14 year old girl.
EMM was pointing out that the American troops put on trial were there for intentionally killing innocent civilians, not terrorists. For example, Army Private Steve Green and two other soliders raped and murdered a 14-year old Iraqi girl and then killed her family to cover it up, this was after "watching" the girl for two weeks so they could learn her daily routine and plan the best way to ambush and rape her.
It was later discovered that Steve Green entered the Army under the "moral waiver" program that excuses past criminal behavior, he literally went straight from jail into the Army. He was also diagnosed by an Army psychiatrist as having Anti-Social Personality Disorder, AKA he was a confirmed sociopath.
I know what EMM was refering to but I was talking about the soldiers who were tried and aquited for killing terrorists in Faluja.
Stalking and raping a 14 year old girl and killing her family is always wrong. Even in war.0 -
quote:Originally posted by MVP
quote:Originally posted by ElMuertoMonkey
quote:held trials against American Soldiers for killing terrorists. Yeah, I'm sure that 14 year old girl knew everything about Al Qaeda's plans... just needed a little "persuading" to get her to open her mouth, right?
I was not even thinking about a 14 year old girl.
Thank God someone did.0 -
quote:Originally posted by stanman
quote:Gun Broker dogma insists that we reserve the right to nuke every country and destroy every living thing on this planet. We must also offer demonstrations of our military might by firing off an occassional ICBM with a blank load in order to scare the hell out of people (I'm sure that terrorists around the world will tremble at our feet and beg us for forgiveness after the launch). Turning Iraq into a parking lot would have cost no where near the 400 billion we have pi$$ed away over there nor cost us the 3000 brave Americans who gave up their lives on this folly. Note that the Gun Broker Gripe Group wants to free Iraq and make it a safe place but also demands that we exterminate every Muslim on the planet (excepting Iraqis)...You figure that one out!
Could you kindly provide some links to support your assertions regarding this often referenced "Gun Broker Dogma"?
Perhaps you have focused on occasional, random posts by individual members and it suits your political agenda to paint the whole board with the same broad brush?
Who, exactly, IS the "Gunbroker Gripe Group" little HAIRY?
Without some kind of particulars to support it, I would submit that the above post is just more bedwetting, liberal blather.[:o)]
You must mean one of those 100 random anti-Islam posts that pop up here during the course of the year?
My agenda is for allowing the maximum amount of personal freedom for each and every American no matter his/her race, creed, religion or national origin and does not recognize that any one group is superior to any other nor entitled to a larger say in the running of our country (this means that just because you are a white christian you are not special). My agenda also includes a minimum level of government involvement in our daily lives as well as the adoption of a fair and just system of taxation which will not punish those Americans who have taken the risks needed to become sucessful.
Note how anyone who fails to fall lock step into line is automatically classifed as a liberal?
Here we go (just in case you thought I made this up) http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2256510 -
quote:Originally posted by allen griggs
"The only "mistake" made in the GWOT was to let the Democraps know we were going in!
They have to make their parallels to Vietnam in order to change public opinion for the "better". The only time the Dems feel empowered is when they are attacking our troops or any Republican.
So, surprise, surprise; after only six years of constant negative press about the Prez, his advisors, his plans, his Cabinet, his Foreign Policy, and his religion: some polls show a portion of the country has swallowed the BS and is now against the war."
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Prior to the war, the Army Chief of Staff told the administration that 150,000 troops were not nearly enough, but that twice that number was needed. It was a Republican President who fired that knowledgable man. It was a Republican Secretary of Defense who insisted that 150,000 troops would be plenty.
After 4 years of disastrous decisions by a Republican congress and administration, now that things have gone to crap, some want to blame Democrats. Go figure.
+10 -
The mistake in the Iraq War is that American's are screwing over their brothers and sisters that are getting disabled over there.
www.gao.gov/new.items/d06362.pdf
They are Temporary Retiring these boys and girls and shortly thereafter they are rating them at 20% disabled.....then they don't have to keep them in a retired status and can get rid of them. You have to be 30% disabled to remain disabled retired by DOD regs.
That's not how you take care of Americans or make community's look up to the US Military.0 -
I had no idea that each service branch set it's own guidelines for disabilites. As I read the report if you have less than 20 years of service and are less than 20% disabled you are simply given a lump sum payment and told to leave. Since a monthly benefit does not kick in until someone is 30% disabled I am guessing that it is very hard (and subjective) to reach that level. 0 -
The biggest mistake we've made in Iraq is not dividing it up 5 different ways and re-drawing boarders by now. Give a chunk to Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria, and Turkey. Divide it all up, give it to these countries and let them worry about it so we can get the hell out. Does the world really need Iraq any more? I would think countries would be willing to accept free land. There's hardly a more divided group of people living together in a country anywhere else on the planet so I don't know why they'd care. I'm so tired of hearing about Iraq that I don't care what they do with it. Seems like the progress ended a couple years ago. Now it's a money pit. Uniting the morons under a democracy is a pipe dream so I'd love to know what the real motives are driving this plan now. 0 -
Withdrawal plan?? LOL The spending on Iraq and Afghanistan has JUST BEGUN! We've got a brand new 365 billion to send over there starting now, until 2009!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070203/ts_nm/iraq_bush_budget_dc
A total of 170 billion for 2007.
In comparison, the budget they just passed, allots 39.1 billion in federal funding for highway projects and improvements for the entire US this year. And that's up 3.6 billion from last year. This 39.1 billion also came very near to being cut from the budget this year. They were going to freeze it!!! There were people who actually wanted to freeze money going to improvements for our own country.
2008- 145 billion
2009- (A probable grossly underestimated) 50 billion.
On a side note, I did some investigating after arguing with a guy at work over who pays the most in taxes and found that the median income family this year, will pay less percentage-wise in federal income taxes than they have since 1955. All classes of citizens are paying less in taxes than they were when Bush took office, but yes, the top 5% ARE getting better tax breaks than the rest of us. All while the bottom tier of people, the bottom 10% are paying 1% of the taxes. And everybody is scrambling to figure out how to give us even more tax cuts.
So, where's the money coming from? All this spending's going to come back and bite us eventually. I think we're setting ourselves up for a rude awakening.0 -
Let me recall what has happened in the last four years.Are president has found very nice looking invisible clothes.We have won the war.We now have to spend a large sum of money for who knows how long to police the war we won?Is this right?Is there really a way to get out of this mess? 0
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