one last time
Ok corn futures are well over $4.00, but one does not use food grade corn for fuel.
I just got back from the grainry I can buy Corn for $1.41 a bu.
Now I hope I don't lose you realy smart people but try to stay with it.
There is 56 pounds in a bu.
35.75 bu. in a ton
Thats $50.35 a ton
Thats 84 gal. per ton times 4( see below)
or 366 gal. per ton
2.5 tons of corn in a acre
210 gallons of ethenol from a acre on the first run
( you run each batch 4 times so now)
thats 840 gallons from a acre.
50.35 a ton divided by 366 gals. = $. 14 a gal. to make.
Now I know there are futher costs, but thats not that much. Of course you can argue on the side of the gov. that never lies. or read a news paper, listen to radio and watch TV. All the news media are honest with care for money as long as they get out the real news.
BTW I haven't done drugs since 1963. Oh then I didn't inhale.... Hey it worked for Clinton
I just got back from the grainry I can buy Corn for $1.41 a bu.
Now I hope I don't lose you realy smart people but try to stay with it.
There is 56 pounds in a bu.
35.75 bu. in a ton
Thats $50.35 a ton
Thats 84 gal. per ton times 4( see below)
or 366 gal. per ton
2.5 tons of corn in a acre
210 gallons of ethenol from a acre on the first run
( you run each batch 4 times so now)
thats 840 gallons from a acre.
50.35 a ton divided by 366 gals. = $. 14 a gal. to make.
Now I know there are futher costs, but thats not that much. Of course you can argue on the side of the gov. that never lies. or read a news paper, listen to radio and watch TV. All the news media are honest with care for money as long as they get out the real news.
BTW I haven't done drugs since 1963. Oh then I didn't inhale.... Hey it worked for Clinton
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I see where you are comimg from tank. It just don't seem to add up, now does it?
I'm sure the government has some great explanation for it though[}:)]0 -
Correct me if I'm wrong ...
It seems like I heard or read some where that you could produce 4 times more "fuel-grade" corn per acre as you could "food-grade" corn.
Is that right ... or am I on drugs?0 -
quote:Originally posted by Da-Tank
Ok corn futures are well over $4.00, but one does not use food grade corn for fuel.
I just got back from the grainry I can buy Corn for $1.41 a bu.
Now I hope I don't lose you realy smart people but try to stay with it.
There is 56 pounds in a bu.
35.75 bu. in a ton
Thats $50.35 a ton
Thats 84 gal. per ton times 4( see below)
or 366 gal. per ton
2.5 tons of corn in a acre
210 gallons of ethenol from a acre on the first run
( you run each batch 4 times so now)
thats 840 gallons from a acre.
50.35 a ton divided by 366 gals. = $. 14 a gal. to make.
Now I know there are futher costs, but thats not that much. Of course you can argue on the side of the gov. that never lies. or read a news paper, listen to radio and watch TV. All the news media are honest with care for money as long as they get out the real news.
BTW I haven't done drugs since 1963. Oh then I didn't inhale.... Hey it worked for Clinton
For fuel!!! Do you have even the slightest idea of anything you are talking about? Based on that garbage, if you're not on drugs, maybe you should be. There are so many errors in that statement it's close to insane, but enjoy your delusions.
You're either too whacked out to even begin to face rational thought, or are a complete troll who doesn't even have the talent to come up with a plausible rant. This crap is so far beyond the reach of possibility that even the folks on Ritalin can see through it.
I would suggest you learn a bit more about the kind of corn used, what it is used for, and the cost for it as a starting point. My checks deposited in the bank say you don't know what you are talking about.
You might also want to check those production numbers again. This comes from the National Corn Growers Association, but I'm sure you think they don't know what they are talking about either. Your figures aren't close to theirs.
http://www.ncga.com/ethanol/pdfs/2006/HowMuchEthanolCan ComeFromCorn.v.2.pdf0 -
Just for those who are not completely insane, I would like to point out one just very minor error in this stupidity.
Here are the figures listed for yield in gallons per ton.
"There is 56 pounds in a bu.
35.75 bu. in a ton
Thats $50.35 a ton
Thats 84 gal. per ton times 4( see below)
or 366 gal. per ton"
Did anyone bother to notice while we're gasping and hyperventilating about a cover-up that if you divided 366 gallons per ton by 35.75 bushels per ton, you'd have a yield of over 10 gallons per bushel?
Alcohol weighs about 7 pounds per gallon, so that means that the yield would be about 70 pounds of fuel per bushel.
A bushel only weighs 56 pounds, so you're supposedly looking at a yield that is around 125% of the total weight of the source of the alcohol.
WOW!!!!! That's even better than a perpetual motion machine.0 -
quote:Originally posted by dlrjj
Just for those who are not completely insane, I would like to point out one just very minor error in this stupidity.
Here are the figures listed for yield in gallons per ton.
"There is 56 pounds in a bu.
35.75 bu. in a ton
Thats $50.35 a ton
Thats 84 gal. per ton times 4( see below)
or 366 gal. per ton"
Did anyone bother to notice while we're gasping and hyperventilating about a cover-up that if you divided 366 gallons per ton by 35.75 bushels per ton, you'd have a yield of over 10 gallons per bushel?
Alcohol weighs about 7 pounds per gallon, so that means that the yield would be about 70 pounds of fuel per bushel.
A bushel only weighs 56 pounds, so you're supposedly looking at a yield that is around 125% of the total weight of the source of the alcohol.
WOW!!!!! That's even better than a perpetual motion machine.
You are ruining it for all of us.0 -
I'm sorry, I'll try to do better in the future. 0 -
all this talk about cheap fuel makes me want to inhale 0 -
Here is the actual yield of nearly pure alcohol from corn
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-18989634.html or roughly 2.5 gallons per bushel. If a bushel of corn cost only $2.50 then the 2.5 gallons of alcohol distiled from it would have to cost $1 per gallon before it ever reached the distillery. I am sure that all of this works exactly like the petroleum industry where you have well-head costs (the crude coming out of the ground) called up stream, then refining costs down stream, folowed by rack price, which is the finished product going into the tanker before taxes and transportation fees are added.0 -
quote:Originally posted by kristov
Here is the actual yield of nearly pure alcohol from corn
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-18989634.html or roughly 2.5 gallons per bushel. If a bushel of corn cost only $2.50 then the 2.5 gallons of alcohol distiled from it would have to cost $1 per gallon before it ever reached the distillery. I am sure that all of this works exactly like the petroleum industry where you have well-head costs (the crude coming out of the ground) called up stream, then refining costs down stream, folowed by rack price, which is the finished product going into the tanker before taxes and transportation fees are added.
But, but, but, don't you understand the government cover-up?
Everyone who is "realy smart" (sp. copied) knows better than that. It is actually possible to distill grain four times, with no loss of output per run.0 -
can someone why e85 is only about .15 cent cheaper than regular gas? 0 -
If it wasn't for the government subsidy, it would cost more. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by 1911a1fan
can someone why e85 is only about .15 cent cheaper than regular gas?
Because ethanol is not a cheap motor fuel source. It is important to forget all about the rantings from on-line types and look at the hard facts about ethanol and the first is that ethanol is being promoted by those in the industry as an alternate fuel source rather than a cheaper fuel source. If you want cheap ethanol we need to import it from Brazil, where ethanol distilled from suger cane is much less costly than distilling ethanol from corn. The sole advantage to corn is that we have lots of it here in the United States so the use of corn based ethanol can reduce our dependence on imported petroleum for use as motor fuels. There is no real reason to expect US produced ethanol to ever be a less expensive option to gasoline because if and when ethanol becomes a leading motor fuel source petroleum prices will automatically be lowered by those sneaky (and some say illegal) oil cartels to make petroleum motor fuels equal to or less than the cost of ethanol fuels. As I said, if you want cheap fuels then import ethanol from Brazil and drop the heavy taxes imposed on it by the friends of ADM in the Congress. You had best believe that ADM dreams of being the new Exxon-Mobil. Just forget all about pumping ANYTHING into your car's gas tank at $1 per gallon because those days are gone and will never (NEVER) be seen again. The key now is to reduce our dependence on petroleum in order to make the available supplies last for as long as possible and ethanol can accomplish this.0 -
One of the primary problems with some of these "blogs" and their posted information is that they either don't know, or don't care to clarify, the difference between what most people think of as "food" corn and #2 Yellow corn.
The former is usually what you get on the cob or in a can or freezer pack, and the latter is what is fed to livestock, ground for some forms of cornmeal, and distilled for alcohol. The price quoted on the CBOT is for #2 Yellow, and it's a hell of a lot higher than a buck or two a bushel right now, though a little over a couple of bucks a bushel, give or take, has been about the average elevator price for the past few years.
It's easy to convince the public how they are being ripped off if you only tell them a part of the story, set the table so that only one conclusion can be reached, then let people draw their own incorrect conclusions. They can raise blood pressures and subscription rates at the same time.0 -
I just feel sorry for all the guys that believe that corn ethanol is the future. My Dad believes, this, he is a farmer and most farmers seem to be set on the long term heath of the ethanol industry. This seems to be fed by all the agricultural magazines. Every month I read more and more on ethanol.
Unfortunately everyone else that uses some type of corn product is seeing seeing higher prices. Take for example corn syrup has almost doubled in price in the last year. The effect of "lower" fuel prices is having a HIGHER effect on other things. Corn ethanol is not the solution, but a short term fix for a major problem. More corn is going to be planted then ever this year, more corn will be produced then ever. The by product of that in the farm market will be $5.00 to $6.00 wheat and 7-8 dollar soybeans. Along with higher beef, feeder cattle, hog, and chicken prices. These prices higher prices are all ready being seen at the supper market.0 -
quote:Originally posted by shoff14
I just feel sorry for all the guys that believe that corn ethanol is the future. My Dad believes, this, he is a farmer and most farmers seem to be set on the long term heath of the ethanol industry. This seems to be fed by all the agricultural magazines. Every month I read more and more on ethanol.
Unfortunately everyone else that uses some type of corn product is seeing seeing higher prices. Take for example corn syrup has almost doubled in price in the last year. The effect of "lower" fuel prices is having a HIGHER effect on other things. Corn ethanol is not the solution, but a short term fix for a major problem. More corn is going to be planted then ever this year, more corn will be produced then ever. The by product of that in the farm market will be $5.00 to $6.00 wheat and 7-8 dollar soybeans. Along with higher beef, feeder cattle, hog, and chicken prices. These prices higher prices are all ready being seen at the supper market.
Congratulations, you actually have some feel for how this thing works.
The projections are for a 15% increase in corn planting for the coming season if weather conditions permit. Since there are no economic, health, or production problems driving farmers out of alternative crops and to corn, this has to mean that there will be a reduction in the planted acres of several other crops without any decrease in the demand for those crops.
It is entirely possible, depending on a multitude of production and consumption factors, that the best move at this point would be to go against the production trend and pick up the slack in the markets that are being slighted. One never knows for sure, but countervailing the markets is frequently a good play.0 -
The only thing worse than an economist must be an economist who farms. Mrs K and our oldest girl are away for the weekend so I am drinking enough bourbon to ensure that there will be no corn left at all for distilling into fuel grade ethanol. Ethanol based motor fuels are viable right now and this elevates their appeal, as well as a nice little advertising campaign by ADM, but just forget all about low costs because they are no where to be found. It would be possible to make a dent in our dependence on imported crude oil and I happen to think that it would not do any harm to take a hard look at ethanol again. Here in CA alternate fuels are mostly centered around LNG (liquified natural gas) with many buses and refuse collection vehicles pwered by LNG. Ethanol would work well for many automobiles as would electric cars for use as "grocery getters" in urban areas of the country. We have to be proactive if we really desire to do something about cutting our dependence on foreign oil and the usual GB dogma about just invading a country and taking their oil does not fly in the face of what we have seen in Iraq or events in Nigeria: It is far too easy for nationalists to disrupt the flow of crude oil leaving us dry. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Da-Tank
Ok corn futures are well over $4.00, but one does not use food grade corn for fuel.
I just got back from the grainry I can buy Corn for $1.41 a bu.
Now I hope I don't lose you realy smart people but try to stay with it.
There is 56 pounds in a bu.
35.75 bu. in a ton
Thats $50.35 a ton
Thats 84 gal. per ton times 4( see below)
or 366 gal. per ton
2.5 tons of corn in a acre
210 gallons of ethenol from a acre on the first run
( you run each batch 4 times so now)
thats 840 gallons from a acre.
50.35 a ton divided by 366 gals. = $. 14 a gal. to make.
Now I know there are futher costs, but thats not that much. Of course you can argue on the side of the gov. that never lies. or read a news paper, listen to radio and watch TV. All the news media are honest with care for money as long as they get out the real news.
BTW I haven't done drugs since 1963. Oh then I didn't inhale.... Hey it worked for Clinton
Yeah, but you forgot about all of the palms that have to be greased throughout the entire supply chain down to the consumer. Figure that since most customers pay with a credit card, the muckity-mucks have factored in 3 1/2% to 5% vigorish just for carrying the balances.[;)]0 -
quote:Originally posted by kristov
The only thing worse than an economist must be an economist who farms.Heck of a way for a guy to live his life isn't it? Spend years studying BS (Economics) in school, play with the same BS for an occupation, and then shovel real BS as an avocation.
You'd think a guy would learn not to play with sh.. after awhile.[;)]
You're right, of course, about the use of ethanol to reduce our dependence on foreign oil, and also about it being a limited replacement. There's only so much arable land in the country, and only so much of it that can be used to grow corn, sugar cane, or sugar beets, and we're already seeing the resultant price increases in other farm products in addition to the high fructose corn syrup effect on soda pop.
Biomass of some sort may have more long term potential at lower ancillary cost to the economy, but there is a danger of soil depletion and erosion with those sources, more so than with corn or beets. Transportation will be a potentially expensive problem for biomass also since it is often much more bulky per ton than more dense products like corn or soybeans (diesel).
The fact that we haven't made any significant inroads despite all of the research, investment, and noise is pretty good evidence that there really aren't any good, simple, and cheap solutions, but that doesn't mean that partial success isn't better than no effort at all. It's going to take a combination of a lot of little solutions rather than one major shift, unless there is some completely new discovery of some sort.
You are also correct about the dangers of going after foreign oil; nationalists abroad are as great a danger as are isolationists at home.0 -
All I know is that somebody better do something quick, because I just put $48.00 worth of gas in my car today, and I put $38.00 in it yesterday. Did a lot of driving over the last 24 hours, and I'm glad I had my Merc to do it in. The Ranger would've hadt he snot beat out of me by the time I got to St. Paul this morning. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by 1911a1fan
can someone why e85 is only about .15 cent cheaper than regular gas?
Cause you're getting porked just like on gasoline.0
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