Absolutely and unequivocally unfriken believable
Lead bullets under fire in California
In California, and Tuolumne and Calaveras counties especially, hunting is something revered by many generations, passed from father to son or daughter with a sense of pride and participation.
However, a statewide issue has come into focus that may affect the "heart of the art," by forcing hunters to use non-lead bullets.
The issue
In the early 1950s, lead was deemed by the state Department of Fish and Game (DFG) to be a cause of mortality in some wildlife, particularly in waterfowl (ducks or geese) and fish. The animals were ingesting fragments of lead from sinkers or hunting pellets, causing them to experience lead poisoning that led to behavioral changes, illness and even death depending on the amounts.
After years of political wrangling, in 1991 a nationwide ban was enacted on lead shot for hunting waterfowl.
Shooters still are allowed to use lead shot for upland bird and mammal hunting, target practice, trap shooting and other legitimate shooting.
Now, a strict ban on the use of lead bullets is being sought.
"The majority of hunters still use lead and if they forced every hunter in California, out of the blue, to stop using lead and switch to something else, it would be a huge hardship," said retired Fish and Game Biologist Jim Maddox. "Every hunter in the state owns lead bullets and there really aren't many different, or available, options out there."
The centerpiece of the environmentalist effort is the California Condor. In 1987 there were only 22 left in the wild and a decision was made to capture them in an attempt to repopulate the nearly extinct species. Reintroduction to natural habitats in California began in 1992 and there are currently 68 free-flying condors in California, and about 130 overall with populations also established in Arizona and Mexico.
Yet environmentalists fear the huge birds still are in danger of extinction because of factors that include habitat loss, oil and gas drilling activities, shootings and death via power lines - but especially lead poisoning, which is called by environmental groups "the greatest obstacle to full recovery of the condor."
"There is biological evidence it is effecting the condor negatively," said Maddox. "A reasonable and prudent approach is necessary when considering what to do; the Department of Fish and Game can either limit all use of lead bullets, limit it in condor habitats, or do nothing."
According to a report compiled by a team of experts at the request of the DFG in February 2007, since 1992, 15 condors have died and more than 30 have required emergency blood treatment because of lead poisoning.
Condors primarily feed on carrion - the carcasses of dead animals. Many of the condors' meals are deceased because of hunters and that those hunters most likely used lead-based bullets.
"Right now the Department of Fish and Game requires that when you are deer hunting, the bullets have a lead tip," said Connie Youngman, owner and operator of B-Bar-Y Traders in Jamestown. "Otherwise the bullet would go straight through the animal and it would take much longer for it to die, or possibly just wound it."
In 2005, the California Fish and Game Commission denied requests to regulate lead contamination in the range of the condor, leading to a November 2006 lawsuit that was filed by Native American, conservation and health organizations, and even some hunters to ban the use of lead ammunition.
In response, the commission is revisiting the issue next month during its triennial California hunting regulations meeting.
According to spokesperson for the DFG, Steve Martarano, four options have been proposed to the commission:
Banning lead bullets in the traditional condor range for big game (deer, pigs, elk, etc.) which includes deer hunting zones down the Northern California coastal range from San Francisco to San Luis Obispo, and in the southeastern part of California.
Expand the banning of lead bullets in additional ranges to include most of the Southern Sierra Nevada, which is considered historical condor range but does not include Tuolumne or Calaveras counties.
Ban all lead bullets used in big game hunting.
No action.
"We really would prefer the first option," said Martarano. "We already have taken steps in the direction of using non-lead bullets in these areas by encouraging hunters to use alternatives.
"We have seminars demonstrating that the new types of bullets perform just as well as the lead, and the nearby stores do sell them," Martarano continued. "But we understand that they are a bit more expensive, and hope that in the near future we can offer some sort of incentive to help hunters pick up the cost."
According to the Web site for the Center for Biological Diversity, which headed the anti-lead campaign that was launched in December 2006, Tejon Ranch is banning non-lead ammunition for all hunting and predator control starting this fall.
Tejon, a 270,000-acre preserve, located just east of Ventura County in the Tehachapi Mountains, is home to the state's largest private hunting program.
The center claims on the Web, "If Tejon can go lead-free, the rest of California should be able to follow suit."
Our area
According to the Web site of the Central Sierra Audubon Society, the California Condor is on the "highly unlikely" list of viewable birds in the Central Sierra.
Yet the Sierra Nevada Ecosystems Project Web site claims that the California Condor did once live in the Mother Lode.
"Condors selected nest sites in cliffs and even in giant sequoias, which brought them well into the west slope of the Sierra as far north as Tuolumne County," claims the site.
Tuolumne County Historian Carlo DeFerrari said, "There is only one documented reference to one being in Tuolumne County that I know, but there may have been more."
DeFerrari cites a journal by famous naturalist John W. Audubon, who claims he clearly saw three to four condors in Tuolumne County, near Hawkins Bar on the Tuolumne River, in March 1850.
What's ahead
Condors or no in the foothills, if regulations are adopted in favor of banning all lead bullets in California, a wave of change could overtake the area's large hunting community.
"About 90 percent of bullets have lead in them, and there are other options, but they are pricey," said Angels Gun Club range master Dave Verhalen. "It's really expensive ... some of that stuff it's so pricey (there are only 10 bullets) per box."
"The alternate Thompson's Carbite Shot are about $52.95 for a box of 10, steel shot $21.95, and lead $14.95," said Youngman. "The carbite stuff has to be molded, so it's really costly."
According to Martarano, "It's up to the California Fish and Game Commission, and their next meeting will be April 12 in Bodega Bay."
And Just how many are eating out of the landfills in there study?[;)]
In California, and Tuolumne and Calaveras counties especially, hunting is something revered by many generations, passed from father to son or daughter with a sense of pride and participation.
However, a statewide issue has come into focus that may affect the "heart of the art," by forcing hunters to use non-lead bullets.
The issue
In the early 1950s, lead was deemed by the state Department of Fish and Game (DFG) to be a cause of mortality in some wildlife, particularly in waterfowl (ducks or geese) and fish. The animals were ingesting fragments of lead from sinkers or hunting pellets, causing them to experience lead poisoning that led to behavioral changes, illness and even death depending on the amounts.
After years of political wrangling, in 1991 a nationwide ban was enacted on lead shot for hunting waterfowl.
Shooters still are allowed to use lead shot for upland bird and mammal hunting, target practice, trap shooting and other legitimate shooting.
Now, a strict ban on the use of lead bullets is being sought.
"The majority of hunters still use lead and if they forced every hunter in California, out of the blue, to stop using lead and switch to something else, it would be a huge hardship," said retired Fish and Game Biologist Jim Maddox. "Every hunter in the state owns lead bullets and there really aren't many different, or available, options out there."
The centerpiece of the environmentalist effort is the California Condor. In 1987 there were only 22 left in the wild and a decision was made to capture them in an attempt to repopulate the nearly extinct species. Reintroduction to natural habitats in California began in 1992 and there are currently 68 free-flying condors in California, and about 130 overall with populations also established in Arizona and Mexico.
Yet environmentalists fear the huge birds still are in danger of extinction because of factors that include habitat loss, oil and gas drilling activities, shootings and death via power lines - but especially lead poisoning, which is called by environmental groups "the greatest obstacle to full recovery of the condor."
"There is biological evidence it is effecting the condor negatively," said Maddox. "A reasonable and prudent approach is necessary when considering what to do; the Department of Fish and Game can either limit all use of lead bullets, limit it in condor habitats, or do nothing."
According to a report compiled by a team of experts at the request of the DFG in February 2007, since 1992, 15 condors have died and more than 30 have required emergency blood treatment because of lead poisoning.
Condors primarily feed on carrion - the carcasses of dead animals. Many of the condors' meals are deceased because of hunters and that those hunters most likely used lead-based bullets.
"Right now the Department of Fish and Game requires that when you are deer hunting, the bullets have a lead tip," said Connie Youngman, owner and operator of B-Bar-Y Traders in Jamestown. "Otherwise the bullet would go straight through the animal and it would take much longer for it to die, or possibly just wound it."
In 2005, the California Fish and Game Commission denied requests to regulate lead contamination in the range of the condor, leading to a November 2006 lawsuit that was filed by Native American, conservation and health organizations, and even some hunters to ban the use of lead ammunition.
In response, the commission is revisiting the issue next month during its triennial California hunting regulations meeting.
According to spokesperson for the DFG, Steve Martarano, four options have been proposed to the commission:
Banning lead bullets in the traditional condor range for big game (deer, pigs, elk, etc.) which includes deer hunting zones down the Northern California coastal range from San Francisco to San Luis Obispo, and in the southeastern part of California.
Expand the banning of lead bullets in additional ranges to include most of the Southern Sierra Nevada, which is considered historical condor range but does not include Tuolumne or Calaveras counties.
Ban all lead bullets used in big game hunting.
No action.
"We really would prefer the first option," said Martarano. "We already have taken steps in the direction of using non-lead bullets in these areas by encouraging hunters to use alternatives.
"We have seminars demonstrating that the new types of bullets perform just as well as the lead, and the nearby stores do sell them," Martarano continued. "But we understand that they are a bit more expensive, and hope that in the near future we can offer some sort of incentive to help hunters pick up the cost."
According to the Web site for the Center for Biological Diversity, which headed the anti-lead campaign that was launched in December 2006, Tejon Ranch is banning non-lead ammunition for all hunting and predator control starting this fall.
Tejon, a 270,000-acre preserve, located just east of Ventura County in the Tehachapi Mountains, is home to the state's largest private hunting program.
The center claims on the Web, "If Tejon can go lead-free, the rest of California should be able to follow suit."
Our area
According to the Web site of the Central Sierra Audubon Society, the California Condor is on the "highly unlikely" list of viewable birds in the Central Sierra.
Yet the Sierra Nevada Ecosystems Project Web site claims that the California Condor did once live in the Mother Lode.
"Condors selected nest sites in cliffs and even in giant sequoias, which brought them well into the west slope of the Sierra as far north as Tuolumne County," claims the site.
Tuolumne County Historian Carlo DeFerrari said, "There is only one documented reference to one being in Tuolumne County that I know, but there may have been more."
DeFerrari cites a journal by famous naturalist John W. Audubon, who claims he clearly saw three to four condors in Tuolumne County, near Hawkins Bar on the Tuolumne River, in March 1850.
What's ahead
Condors or no in the foothills, if regulations are adopted in favor of banning all lead bullets in California, a wave of change could overtake the area's large hunting community.
"About 90 percent of bullets have lead in them, and there are other options, but they are pricey," said Angels Gun Club range master Dave Verhalen. "It's really expensive ... some of that stuff it's so pricey (there are only 10 bullets) per box."
"The alternate Thompson's Carbite Shot are about $52.95 for a box of 10, steel shot $21.95, and lead $14.95," said Youngman. "The carbite stuff has to be molded, so it's really costly."
According to Martarano, "It's up to the California Fish and Game Commission, and their next meeting will be April 12 in Bodega Bay."
And Just how many are eating out of the landfills in there study?[;)]
0
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quote:
Yet environmentalists fear the huge birds still are in danger of extinction because of factors that include habitat loss, oil and gas drilling activities, shootings and death via power lines - but especially lead poisoning, which is called by environmental groups "the greatest obstacle to full recovery of the condor."
All I can say is, you can ban lead to your hearts content but most wild animals do not live in a bubble.0 -
quote:Originally posted by HobbyGuy
I remember the reasons for the change from lead shot to steel shot for wetland hunting (and agree with it). Lead polutes the water, then the fish and birds die from lead poisoning.
I agree as well on that note. Migratory birds and fish whats to keep them from picking up lead poisoning in other states/waters with no restrictions?0 -
So condors have resorted to eating bullets?
Cripes,they NEED to be extinct!0 -
quote:Condors primarily feed on carrion - the carcasses of dead animals. Many of the condors' meals are deceased because of hunters and that those hunters most likely used lead-based bullets.
Horse crap- They are hanging out at the land fills with the rest of the buzzards and sea gulls looking for a free meal.0 -
Maybe the wonderful state of kalifornia could convince the illegal mexicans to eat the stuff ??
D.0 -
[8D]--Well lets see-Condors have died from lead poisoning, from eating DEAD carrion--
--What is that ?? ex wives/deer UNTRACKED/ coyotes LEFT to die/ squirrels LEFT to die/pine cones shot from trees ????
--Rabbits to shot up to take home and eat ???
--Doe's shot by mistake???
--What do you hunters think ????
--[:o)][:o)]--JIMBO0 -
...just another attempt to chip away at our rights to hunt (to own guns also), all part of the "big picture" for the anti-gun, anti-hunting whacko crowd......granted, a heavly hunted area say for ducks could after years get an accumulation of lead shot; but for any handgun/rifle rounds (except for a range) to be a threat, spare me...and that includes lost game, or any yotes or other "trash" animals left for the buzzards...[;)] 
0 -
quote:Originally posted by jimbowby
[8D]--Well lets see-Condors have died from lead poisoning, from eating DEAD carrion--
--What is that ?? ex wives/deer UNTRACKED/ coyotes LEFT to die/ squirrels LEFT to die/pine cones shot from trees ????
--Rabbits to shot up to take home and eat ???
--Doe's shot by mistake???
--What do you hunters think ????
--[:o)][:o)]--JIMBO
Forgot to add Deer that get hit by cars that contain lead[:o)]0 -
[8D]Listen Francf--Just because I've been accused of having a LEAD FOOT-It ain't no deers fault!!!!
--[xx(][xx(]--JIMBO0 -
Or birds that get sucked up in jet engines,
or Birds that fly into windmills (clean power, with a little bleach[:D])0 -
quote:Originally posted by jimbowby
[8D]Listen Francf--Just because I've been accused of having a LEAD FOOT-It ain't no deers fault!!!!
--[xx(][xx(]--JIMBO
[:D][:D]0 -
Hmmmm, so am I suppose to stop eating condors all together or just limit my intake to avoid long term exposure causing lead poisoning? 0 -
jimbowby- I just get tweaked at this stuff. As you know I hunt around Fort hunter Liggett area. The amount of lead ordnance from the last 60 years in the area has not affected hunting or wildlife one bit. 0 -
[8D]-Yea, I know, but when they banned lead shot for waterfowl it seemed logical--
--I really don't know what the he11 we'll do if they start control of lead in centerfire rifles/pistols, even though I don't hunt any more I do a LOT of "fireing" !!!and I have many thousands of pistol/rifle ammo--ALL with lead !!!!
--Time will tell--JIMBO0 -
I"m in for copper coated porcelon but then again "How about that copper oxide"[:o)][:o)] 0 -
Maybe NERF bullets would make them happy. Oh wait, then the animals would just choke on them. Quandry. [8D] 0 -
Where do they get their facts about the condors eating carrion that has lead in it? I have shot a lot of animals in my time and with the exception of a couple of pheasants shot at long range and one deer shot with a cap and ball revolver, ALL of my bullets/shot have passed through the animal. Therefore they are out in the woods somewhere, not in the animal. 0
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