Bad cops, misunderstood kids.
We've had some vandalism in the neighborhood for about a week now. Car keying, a little theft, and some random damage.
Two days ago, they got me and a neighbor two doors down. They keyed his Jeep Grand Cherokee, broke his windshield and stole some things from inside the Jeep.
Then, they broke out the back windshield of Sandy's car parked in the driveway, and snooped around inside. Nothing there to steal.
Both Rick and I called the police and reported the crime. A patrolman came out and took the report and handed it over to the detectives. He said they would call us later.
Last night, 4 doors up the street, a neighbor saw someone in his car, and called the police. They arrested the kid (15 years old and living one block over) and took him in. They questioned him and got a confession to all of the damage that's been going on for the last week, and actually a lot of stuff over the last year. Seems like we have our own little Al Capone here.
This afternoon, I got a call from the boy's father. He wants to pay for the damage if I'll drop the charges. I told him I would think it over and call him back. He did the high pressure sell of either take the deal or he's not paying.
Talked to the detective tonight, and told him what I was told. He said he had already had a few calls from folks the father had already contacted and knew what was going on.
I asked him what he wanted to do. He said he understood us wanting payment for our damage, and he wouldn't hold it against anyone who took dad up on his deal.
I told him I thought dad's lack of holding the boy accountable was part of the problem, and I was perfectly happy replacing the rear windshield with insurance and pressing charges. He said he was willing to pursue charges because it would be on a juvenile record and would be sealed later anyway.
Now, I'm all for giving a kid a break, except when mommy and daddy try to strong arm people to protect a budding criminal. In fact, I think that is how full fledged thieves get started.
I called pop tonight and told him,
(1) I'm pressing charges.
(2) I'm going to file a civil suit against Junior after he is convicted for my damages.
(3) I'm going to encourage all of the other neighbors to do the same.
Pop is PO'ed! Went into a full rant on the phone of how I was going to ruin the kids life. I told him I think he ruined the kid's life by not teaching the difference between right and wrong, and not holding him accountable for his actions.
Rick, the guy who owns the Jeep is on board. Byron, the guy who saw him in the act is on board. I'll contact the others I know of over the weekend.
I hate to punish a first time offender if things can be worked out, but this kid has a history, and pop isn't teaching him anything by buying everyone off. Besides, the cops did their job, and it just wouldn't be right to cut their legs out from under them.
We'll see what comes of it.
Two days ago, they got me and a neighbor two doors down. They keyed his Jeep Grand Cherokee, broke his windshield and stole some things from inside the Jeep.
Then, they broke out the back windshield of Sandy's car parked in the driveway, and snooped around inside. Nothing there to steal.
Both Rick and I called the police and reported the crime. A patrolman came out and took the report and handed it over to the detectives. He said they would call us later.
Last night, 4 doors up the street, a neighbor saw someone in his car, and called the police. They arrested the kid (15 years old and living one block over) and took him in. They questioned him and got a confession to all of the damage that's been going on for the last week, and actually a lot of stuff over the last year. Seems like we have our own little Al Capone here.
This afternoon, I got a call from the boy's father. He wants to pay for the damage if I'll drop the charges. I told him I would think it over and call him back. He did the high pressure sell of either take the deal or he's not paying.
Talked to the detective tonight, and told him what I was told. He said he had already had a few calls from folks the father had already contacted and knew what was going on.
I asked him what he wanted to do. He said he understood us wanting payment for our damage, and he wouldn't hold it against anyone who took dad up on his deal.
I told him I thought dad's lack of holding the boy accountable was part of the problem, and I was perfectly happy replacing the rear windshield with insurance and pressing charges. He said he was willing to pursue charges because it would be on a juvenile record and would be sealed later anyway.
Now, I'm all for giving a kid a break, except when mommy and daddy try to strong arm people to protect a budding criminal. In fact, I think that is how full fledged thieves get started.
I called pop tonight and told him,
(1) I'm pressing charges.
(2) I'm going to file a civil suit against Junior after he is convicted for my damages.
(3) I'm going to encourage all of the other neighbors to do the same.
Pop is PO'ed! Went into a full rant on the phone of how I was going to ruin the kids life. I told him I think he ruined the kid's life by not teaching the difference between right and wrong, and not holding him accountable for his actions.
Rick, the guy who owns the Jeep is on board. Byron, the guy who saw him in the act is on board. I'll contact the others I know of over the weekend.
I hate to punish a first time offender if things can be worked out, but this kid has a history, and pop isn't teaching him anything by buying everyone off. Besides, the cops did their job, and it just wouldn't be right to cut their legs out from under them.
We'll see what comes of it.
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I agree with ECC go talk to the kid before you do any thing.[:)][:p] 0 -
I don't think this is a bad cop issue, more like a bad justice system.
I would do the same thing your doing. I wouldn't worry about talking to the kid either. He is obviously a habitual offender. He just hasn't been caught until now.
Sometimes hard lessons are the ones best learned. And he needs to be taught.
I have a feeling this isn't going to stop the kid though, maybe for a while. I'll bet he's just a little more cautious next time.0 -
Good job, Heff. Stick to it. 0 -
Two separate legal areas- 1. Committing a criminal act, and 2. Civil damages. As the guys have said- Dad is legally responsible for the civil losses caused by his punk azz kid. Ignore him- other than understanding WHY his kid is a punk. Ref: Prosecution- the best deterrent is not severity of punishment, but CERTAINTY of punishment. Let him walk, and he is gonna do this crap again. 0 -
I agree. I have had similar instances and have tried both avenues. I think you are handling it correctly.
Pursue prosecution. Dad will have to pay and the lawyers will still get their cut. (that's why the cops and lawyers agree on this one[:D]-Sorry Mateo)Ask for restitution, if you don't get it-Sue the idiot.
On one of my cases, a couple of idiots drove around shooting out windows on cars and businesses over several nights amounting to about $40K in damages. I testified and the court awarded partial restitution (most of my deductible). A few months later, I caught the kid with alcohol in possession while on patrol. Although I sometimes give kids a break for this, I gave him another reminder to stay out of trouble. (For those that think me evil, I could have lodged him in jail, but didn't.)
PS-I used this instance as a lesson to my own kids about both of us being resposible if they screw up. I told them that I would not only let the court hammer them but that I would take out a 2nd mortgage and go around and pay off the every penny of the damage if they did something like this and then they would either pay me back or I would go to my grave owing the bank money and the bank would sell my house when I was gone instead of them getting it.
The other case is a "whole nother story" as they say...
By the way Mateo-did you have the surgery yet? If so, I hope you're feeling OK.0 -
quote:Originally posted by GUNFUNCO
By the way Mateo-did you have the surgery yet? If so, I hope you're feeling OK.
Thanks for asking, the knife cuts skin on August 30....0 -
quote:Originally posted by dheffley
quote:Originally posted by ECC
Danny...have you had a chance to talk to the kid himself??? Perhaps the kid is a little different than his father and would be greatful for a second chance.?.? Seems to me that you'd almost have to speak with the kid directly to come to any real decision on the matter.?.?
No I haven't and don't know him, but those in the neighborhood who do say he's an arogant little bully who like to treat younger kids bad and shoot the bird to adults he doesn't like. I think he's a real chip off the old block from what I've heard, and besides, pop was trying to be real intimidating when he told be I only had one chance to get paid, and that was to accept his offer.
I think the kid is a punk, and the dad is a punk, and I'm not going to be told by a criminal how I have to settle up or loose.
Heck man! I'm way too old to be talked down too! Especially when I'm the victom!
I hear you...sounds like you took the best course of action.0 -
You wont be able to reach the kids..
Come back in twenty years when the little poop has his own car that he works to pay for, then set it on fire... Burn his house down, after swiping his insurance payment last month...
there is no just punishment, except that of a guilty conscience which more than likely the said person will have when they look at their new vehicle and think of the things they did to other peoples'.
Although restitution is just imnsho...0 -
stealing, and vandalism are disrespectful, and must be corrected at a young age, or the kid might never learn. As always, I wholeheartedly agree with your course of action. You are doing the boy a favor, and who knows, maybe even dad will learn something.
Ben0 -
You are right and his dad is wrong.
Kind of late in life to try to get the kid on the right path but better than never.0 -
Good move. The kid needs to learn his lesson. 0 -
Press on.
DSM0 -
quote:Originally posted by Cutiegirlracing
I don't think this is a bad cop issue, more like a bad justice system.
I would do the same thing your doing. I wouldn't worry about talking to the kid either. He is obviously a habitual offender. He just hasn't been caught until now.
Sometimes hard lessons are the ones best learned. And he needs to be taught.
I have a feeling this isn't going to stop the kid though, maybe for a while. I'll bet he's just a little more cautious next time.
The "bad cop" thing was, again, my poor attempt of sarcasm due to all of the old "bad cop" postings we had some time back. I have never had a cop treat me badly, and have always been servered by them well, just as in this incident.
The "misunderstood kids" thing was, again, my poor attempt of sarcasm due to the common attitude by parents, these days, to attempt to excuse their childrens criminal behavior as just "being kids today", "being influenced by their friend", or "being misunderstood".
I don't buy any of it. I was raised differently. If this was a first time thing, and pop would have come to my door with kid in tow and having the son do the talking, saying, "Sir, I broke your car window. I'm sorry, I shouldn't have done it and I need to know what you need me to do to make it right", things would have gone completely different.
But, this kid still has not stood up to accept responsibility, and his doppy dad isn't doing anything to put that burden on his shoulders. He wants to get between the kid and his victims and handle it all himself. So, the kid lets him, stands in the background smiling thinking he's gotten away with it again, and plans his next caper.
Well, not this time bucko!0 -
quote:Originally posted by kyplumber
You wont be able to reach the kids..
Come back in twenty years when the little poop has his own car that he works to pay for, then set it on fire... Burn his house down, after swiping his insurance payment last month...
there is no just punishment, except that of a guilty conscience which more than likely the said person will have when they look at their new vehicle and think of the things they did to other peoples'.
Although restitution is just imnsho...
Thanks for the advice, but I wouldn't take criminal action agaist him over a few dollars. Wouldn't that put me on the same level as him? I don't believe I want to be thought of the way I think of him.0 -
Sorry for 1) getting in late and 2) repeating most everybody else. I think you are absolutely right on target. I get sick of parents trying to cover up their kids irresponsible and criminal behavior, and then wondering why they turn out to be bums and criminals. If I had done that I would have rather faced the cops and judge than my Daddy! 0 -
quote:Originally posted by dheffley
He said he was willing to pursue charges because it would be on a juvenile record and would be sealed later anyway.What you were told is incorrect. In Texas, juvenile records for offenses of Class B misdemeanor and above haven't actually been sealed for several years.
Without knowing a few important details I don't know for sure what specific charge was filed, but it was undoubtedly either Burglary of a Vehicle or Criminal Mischief.
Burglary of a Vehicle is a Class A misdemeanor. The grade of offense for Criminal Mishchief depends upon the dollar amount of damage done, but to give you an idea $50-$500 damage is a class B and $500-$1500 is a class A.
Bottom line, this charge will in fact be on his adult record.
This charge and possible conviction will show up when even a simple TCIC computer inquiry is run on his criminal history. It'll also be available for consideration during the punishment phase of any future criminal proceedings he might become involved in.0 -
My rear window has a defroster in it and I have estimates for $405 to $656 to replace it. They are coming on Monday to do the work, and all I will pay is $100 deductable. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by dheffley
My rear window has a defroster in it and I have estimates for $405 to $656 to replace it. They are coming on Monday to do the work, and all I will pay is $100 deductable.
With criminal mischief the grade of offense is based on the total cost to either repair damage or replace items. Doesn't matter that insurance is covering any of it.
Consider also that the judge may order him to pay restitution for these damages. Daddy could very well end up paying you (or your insurance company) even if you go through with the criminal charge.0 -
Some states are attempting to require the parents pay all the cost to the state in jailing the minor. The father may be only worrying about himself. 0
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