Krag Question
I recently read a book about the Battle of San Juan Hill. The author makes the point that the only cartridge rifle the U.S. had at the battle was the 30-40 Krag. He commented that the Mausers used by the Spanish were magazine rifles while the Krag was not. Did the Krag have a magazine? Or is he referring to teh stripper clips holding the ammo? Thanks again.
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I could be wrong, but I seem to recall that there were some Remington Keene's with the Rough Rider's at San Juan Hill. 0 -
The author was mistaken. The Krag was a revolution for the US military in that it was a bolt-action magazine-loaded rifle that fired smokeless-powder cartridges.
Unfortunately the 30-40 Krag round is a low-power round, and the Krag had a box magazine that used a gate opening on the right side of the action, making it impossible to use stripper clips. These factors doomed the Krag.
The superior Mausers that the Spaniards used caused Springfield to design the Model 0f 1903, which used an improved version of the Mauser action and replaced the Krag as the US service rifle.0 -
So to load a Krag you opened the side door and put the shells in one at a time by hand? 0 -
If the author stated that the only cartridge rifle the U.S. used at San Juan Hill was the Krag, and that it wasn't a magazine rifle, he was mistaken on two counts, actually.
The Trapdoor Springfield, although a black-power single-shot, was in every sense of the term a cartridge rifle. And, the Krag did indeed have a magazine. The capability the Mauser had, which the Krag did not, was to be loaded with stripper clips. This deficiency on the part of the Krag led directly to the development and adoption of the modified Mauser-pattern '03 Springfield.
Even very good authors have a problem with keeping their gun facts straight. I suspect many historians have little or no interest in, or education relevant to, the precise facts concerning the guns used in the course of American history.
Allan W. Eckert, in writing of Colonial, Revolutionary, and early 19th-century America, routinely refers to muskets and rifles as if they're one and the same. Stephen Ambrose, in "Undaunted Courage", about the Lewis and Clark expedition, describes the 1803 Harper's Ferry rifle as a flintlock with a 53-inch barrel, needing to have the flint inserted into the jaws of the hammer when a need arose for the gun to be fired, and requiring a rest for that lo-o-ong barrel. That he lists the 1803 rifle as the primary carry weapon of the L&C expedition, at all, is another mistake, but the documentation revealing that 1792 Contract rifles were the actual guns used had not been researched and verified at the time Mr. Ambrose wrote his book.
More answer than you were really looking for, I suspect, but, at the least opportunity to bore someone to death with the tidbits of history stored in my tiny brain, I pounce.
P.S. -- drat. Rocklobster beat me to the post.0 -
Something else,
1) there were a lot more 45-70 Springfields in the SA war than there were Krags.
2) SOP (and war dept directive) was to use the Krag as a single shot and hold the mags ammo in reserve (mag cutoff switch was used for this)
The Krag was loaded with loose rounds, while the Spanish had charger (stripper) loaded Mauser rifles.0 -
Dutchman, run an eyeball over this. It's a pretty good article about the American Krag:
http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting2006/americankrag/index.asp0 -
Can someone confirm there were no Trapdoors, Lee Navy's or Remington Rolling Blocks used by the US in the Spanish American War?
The Mauser's stripper clip system killed off the Krag in a year.The USA had to pay Germany royalties for copying the stripper clip system on the Springfield 1903.
The Krag side loading system would be superior in a sniper rifle that couldn't be top loaded w/wo stripper clips.0 -
quote:Originally posted by v35
Can someone confirm there were no Trapdoors, Lee Navy's or Remington Rolling Blocks used by the US in the Spanish American War?
The Mauser's stripper clip system killed off the Krag in a year.The USA had to pay Germany royalties for copying the stripper clip system on the Springfield 1903.
The Krag side loading system would be superior in a sniper rifle that couldn't be top loaded w/wo stripper clips.
[:D] Hard to confirm that which was not true. All three were used by American troops. As stated earlier, the Trapdoor outnumbered all the rest. The Krag was a vast improvement over the Trapdoor, but it was, in a sense, in terms of military rifles, a wrong turn. The '93 Mauser pointed us the right way. Loading one round at a time has its merits; firing each round as if it were the only one you had, has even more. But for a battle rifle, the ability to load several rounds (preferably lots) all at once, is the way to go, particularly when the enemy has already gotten to that point and is waiting for you.0 -
The main thing the troops hated about the black-powder cartridge shooters was the huge puff of smoke that was created when they were fired, giving away their position. 0 -
The mauser had the internal magazine the krag did not. 0 -
The M1903 Springfield also had/has the magazine cutoff single shot feature. I tried it once on my '03 just for "s h i t s & g r i n s". It works. But it is a controlled feed system. Shooter has to make sure the round is caught in the extractor hook before the bolt is closed.
Also hard on the brass. Top round was scored pretty well after having the bolt cycling back and forth over it several times. Not good if you reload. Joe0 -
quote:Originally posted by chrishiher
The mauser had the internal magazine the krag did not.
That's strange. All three Krags that I have owned had internal magazines. You load them from the right & they wrap around the bottom & feed from the left. Don't ever take one to a public firing range. There will be some son of a republican who will offer you more money than you can resist for it. That's what happened to my first two.0 -
First rife I ever carried hunting was a 30 40 Krag.
Open the side door and drop in 5 rounds. Weighed almost as much as I did.
Never shot a deer with it but it was fun to shoot paper with.
AC0 -
My first deer rifle also.
W.D.0 -
quote:Originally posted by The Dutchman
So to load a Krag you opened the side door and put the shells in one at a time by hand?
Just for those that haven't seen one, this is the magazine. The door pops open at the top.
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quote:Originally posted by dcinffxva
Just for those that haven't seen one, this is the magazine. The door pops open at the top.
It's the Norwegian version of the Krag that the US adopted. !!
It puts the shooter in an awkward position when loading the gun.
This is the danish. And the magazine-door is hinged in the front.. and flips out and forward. You just "pour" in 5 shots - no need for stripperclips. You can litterally just take 5 cartridges from your pocket, and easily load them into the mag and close the door.
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