Any Californians willing to try this?
Haven't checked the laws or verified any of the sources yet, but I found this on Wikipedia:
"Open Carry Laws
Open carry of a loaded handgun in a county with population of greater than 200,000 persons is illegal. (needs citation) Although while this is the case, open carry of an unloaded handgun is legal. There is no section of the California penal code that prohibits open carry of an unloaded handgun (except for in certain areas such as state-owned or federal properties). Carrying a legal magazine separate from the handgun is also not banned under the penal code (a definition of a loaded firearm is in Section G of California Penal Code 12031). Also in the case of People vs. Clark (1996) a shotgun shell attached to the shotgun although not chambered or placed in a position where it was able to be fired was declared to be legal under California law and the charge of having a loaded firearm against Clark was dismissed."
So.... if you can open carry an unloaded weapon, can you concealed carry an unloaded weapon?
Seems to me it would be an easy work around if you just carried a pistol and a loaded magazine.
If you get robbed at gunpoint, you probably wont be able to draw, load a magazine, and chamber a round- but if someone starts a public shooting, you would most likely have time to load your weapon and eliminate them.
However, I suspect every cop that sees you will try and arrest you, and almost everyone that sees you will call the police. If nothing else they might get your for disturbing the peace- but it sure would be a deterrent to getting mugged.
If this "loophole" worked for unloaded concealed carry as well... I might be tempted to try it.
"Open Carry Laws
Open carry of a loaded handgun in a county with population of greater than 200,000 persons is illegal. (needs citation) Although while this is the case, open carry of an unloaded handgun is legal. There is no section of the California penal code that prohibits open carry of an unloaded handgun (except for in certain areas such as state-owned or federal properties). Carrying a legal magazine separate from the handgun is also not banned under the penal code (a definition of a loaded firearm is in Section G of California Penal Code 12031). Also in the case of People vs. Clark (1996) a shotgun shell attached to the shotgun although not chambered or placed in a position where it was able to be fired was declared to be legal under California law and the charge of having a loaded firearm against Clark was dismissed."
So.... if you can open carry an unloaded weapon, can you concealed carry an unloaded weapon?
Seems to me it would be an easy work around if you just carried a pistol and a loaded magazine.
If you get robbed at gunpoint, you probably wont be able to draw, load a magazine, and chamber a round- but if someone starts a public shooting, you would most likely have time to load your weapon and eliminate them.
However, I suspect every cop that sees you will try and arrest you, and almost everyone that sees you will call the police. If nothing else they might get your for disturbing the peace- but it sure would be a deterrent to getting mugged.
If this "loophole" worked for unloaded concealed carry as well... I might be tempted to try it.
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Just asking for trouble. 0 -
I think I will pass on this.....I don't hanker to be body slammed on the pavement like SpongeBob Squarepants by some over zealous LEO. [:0][:0]
rider0 -
When the LEO questions you or tells you to put your hands in the air just flip him off because thats legal too. No laws against flipping a cop the bird so there should be no problems. 0 -
the last guy in california to try it is now in a siberian gulag 0 -
In North Carolina they have a law that can be best sumed up as "Going armed to the terror of the public" or something on that order. Would think that Kalifonia would have invented something on that order. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by CA sucks
Haven't checked the laws or verified any of the sources yet, but I found this on Wikipedia:I think that says a lot...
Anywho:
Even before Clark the law specifically stated that if any ammo was attached to the firearm in any way it was considered loaded. I guess Clark got one a them jury-nullification-type juries.
Current law says that if there is ammo anywhere in the possession of the same person who is in possession of the firearm, it is considered loaded. As in, if you have an unloaded .22 in your locked-but-not-CA-approved-firearm-container tacklebox in the backseat, and 1 .22 cartridge in the locked glovebox, you might as well be carrying a condition one .45 in your waistband.
Mo trivia: There are different laws about carrying concealed and carrying loaded. Yes, technically it is legal in the state to carry an unloaded handgun on the person, as long as it is carried openly in a holster. Case law shows one man who was convicted of concealed carry, not carrying loaded, because the gun was stuck in his back pocket and not in a holster. You'd think pointing out that the only reason the officer saw it in the first place was that it was as exposed as if it had been carried in a holster, but rules is rules.
My favorite part was that the concealed carry section only applied to "firearms capable of being concealed upon the person", the definition of which did not include rifles and shotguns. So a few years ago it would've been legal to carry an unloaded mini and a few mags under a coat.0 -
As far as I know, carrying a loaded magazine (or shell carrier for shotguns) in the same case as the weapon you are transporting is illegal in California, even if the case is locked. Since that's the case, I doubt very seriously if you can open carry an unloaded weapon with ammunition within easy reach. 0 -
as far as I know... I don't live there so I don't have to worry about it! bwahahahaaa 0 -
MPV quote: When the LEO questions you or tells you to put your hands in the air just flip him off because thats legal too. No laws against flipping a cop the bird so there should be no problems. And while you're at it you can say " Hey porky, this ain't against the law, so you
can't do nothin'" And then (because there is no law against it) the LEO will say: "Gee Mr.Citizen, Thanks for the great info! sorry to have bothered you."0 -
I believe that law was repealed
12025. (a) A person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when
he or she does any of the following:
(1) Carries concealed within any vehicle which is under his or her
control or direction any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person.
(2) Carries concealed upon his or her person any pistol, revolver,
or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
(3) Causes to be carried concealed within any vehicle in which he
or she is an occupant any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person.
(b) Carrying a concealed firearm in violation of this section is
punishable, as follows:
(1) Where the person previously has been convicted of any felony,
or of any crime made punishable by this chapter, as a felony.
(2) Where the firearm is stolen and the person knew or had
reasonable cause to believe that it was stolen, as a felony.
(3) Where the person is an active participant in a criminal street
gang, as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 186.22, under the
Street Terrorism Enforcement and Prevention Act (Chapter 11
(commencing with Section 186.20) of Title 7 of Part 1), as a felony.
(4) Where the person is not in lawful possession of the firearm,
as defined in this section, or the person is within a class of
persons prohibited from possessing or acquiring a firearm pursuant to
Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the
Welfare and Institutions Code, as a felony.
(5) Where the person has been convicted of a crime against a
person or property, or of a narcotics or dangerous drug violation, by
imprisonment in the state prison, or by imprisonment in a county
jail not to exceed one year, by a fine not to exceed one thousand
dollars ($1,000), or by both that imprisonment and fine.
(6) By imprisonment in the state prison, or by imprisonment in a
county jail not to exceed one year, by a fine not to exceed one
thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment if
both of the following conditions are met:
(A) Both the pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being
concealed upon the person and the unexpended ammunition capable of
being discharged from that firearm are either in the immediate
possession of the person or readily accessible to that person, or the
pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon
the person is loaded as defined in subdivision (g) of Section 12031.
(B) The person is not listed with the Department of Justice
pursuant to paragraph (1) of subdivision (c) of Section 11106, as the
registered owner of that pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person.
(7) In all cases other than those specified in paragraphs (1) to
(6), inclusive, by imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed one
year, by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by
both that imprisonment and fine.
(c) A peace officer may arrest a person for a violation of
paragraph (6) of subdivision (b) if the peace officer has probable
cause to believe that the person is not listed with the Department of
Justice pursuant to paragraph (1) of subdivision (c) of Section
11106 as the registered owner of the pistol, revolver, or other
firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, and one or more
of the conditions in subparagraph (A) of paragraph (6) of subdivision
(b) is met.
(d) (1) Every person convicted under this section who previously
has been convicted of a misdemeanor offense enumerated in Section
12001.6 shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail for at
least three months and not exceeding six months, or, if granted
probation, or if the execution or imposition of sentence is
suspended, it shall be a condition thereof that he or she be
imprisoned in a county jail for at least three months.
(2) Every person convicted under this section who has previously
been convicted of any felony, or of any crime made punishable by this
chapter, if probation is granted, or if the execution or imposition
of sentence is suspended, it shall be a condition thereof that he or
she be imprisoned in a county jail for not less than three months.
(e) The court shall apply the three-month minimum sentence as
specified in subdivision (d), except in unusual cases where the
interests of justice would best be served by granting probation or
suspending the imposition or execution of sentence without the
minimum imprisonment required in subdivision (d) or by granting
probation or suspending the imposition or execution of sentence with
conditions other than those set forth in subdivision (d), in which
case, the court shall specify on the record and shall enter on the
minutes the circumstances indicating that the interests of justice
would best be served by that disposition.
(f) Firearms carried openly in belt holsters are not concealed
within the meaning of this section.
(g) For purposes of this section, "lawful possession of the
firearm" means that the person who has possession or custody of the
firearm either lawfully owns the firearm or has the permission of the
lawful owner or a person who otherwise has apparent authority to
possess or have custody of the firearm. A person who takes a firearm
without the permission of the lawful owner or without the permission
of a person who has lawful custody of the firearm does not have
lawful possession of the firearm.
(h) (1) The district attorney of each county shall submit annually
a report on or before June 30, to the Attorney General consisting of
profiles by race, age, gender, and ethnicity of any person charged
with a felony or a misdemeanor under this section and any other
offense charged in the same complaint, indictment, or information.
(2) The Attorney General shall submit annually, a report on or
before December 31, to the Legislature compiling all of the reports
submitted pursuant to paragraph (1).
(3) This subdivision shall remain operative until January 1, 2005,
and as of that date shall be repealed.0 -
the attorney general in california is jerry brown....he hasnt met a gun control law yet that he doesnt support. he also said california would save hundreds of lives if we banned .50.....we did but so far we havent saved hundreds of lives....go figure 0 -
Wikipedia i would say no, since that could be me writing this code[:D][:D] 0 -
And no matter what, they can still always get you for disturbing the peace... 0 -
quote:Originally posted by MVP
When the LEO questions you or tells you to put your hands in the air just flip him off because thats legal too. No laws against flipping a cop the bird so there should be no problems.
Yeh, Thats a good idea. No you might not be breaking the gun law.... but you'll probably get thumped, bean bagged or tazered, and then arrested for interfering with an officer doing his job.
Thats what I would do to anyone I knew was armed and wanted to flip me off. The cops dont know if the gun is empty until they remove it from you and inspect it.0
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