Mall Shooter-What would you do-
-if you saw that happening and were carrying. Knowing that you were probably breaking the law, at least where I live even if you have a CCW, any business can post no concealed weapons signs and most do here. Would you try to stop the shooter, if you were in position to do so? I am sure if you were about to be one of his victims you would act, I would. But if you were in the clear, would you try to stop him? It seems this could happen anywhere anytime these days. Its something to think about. Having spent half my life in law enforcement, it has been my habit to think about this sort of thing all the time. When I go into a restaurant I try to sit in a position where I can see most of the area, try to not put my back to the door, scan those around for suspicious actions, etc. Its a sad situation when you have to consider that you could save a life and then become a criminal yourself. CCW is practically useless in NC, where you can't carry in the most likely places you need to, banks, any place that posts a sign, public gatherings, schools, gov. buildings, places that serve alcohol, etc. Not much left. Most people just break the law and take their chances. When CCW was passed, the AG opinion was that places not prohibited by the original bill couldn't post signs to prevent it, but the Democrats changed that. Watch now for most all CCW states to ban it from malls, if they haven't already. I know its not a fair question, you can't know what you will do until it happens. I just think people like us who are probably heeled should think about it. So would you shoot and take your chances, shoot and try to slip away? What?
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What is the point of having armed citizens if they just walk away when innocent lives are at stake? I'd take my chances with a jury. 0 -
As with all things, situation dictates. But if I have the opportunity, skill, and tactical advantage to make a difference I'll take it. I will eliminate the threat. This makes me seriously rethink my recent carry options. Since these damn shootings tend to go in multiples of three, I think it's time to case up the Walther and start carrying something bigger. 0 -
I would've taken the shot. If I didn't have one, I would've moved to where I had one.
Populated backdrop be d*mned, I know good and well I'm a good enough shot to have made it at just about any distance you'd expect in a mall. And if YOU aren't confident of that, you should practice more until you are.
I would've went towards the sound of the shots. I am dead serious, if I hear gunshots in a mall, I'm going TOWARDS them because if I get shot it's at least one more bullet that isn't going to be used on a helpless innocent in the mall.
I'd hunt the shooter down in the mall, and take him/her/it out. And most likely deliver a finishing shot just because it doesn't take much remaining bodily function to pull a trigger a few final times.
And then I'd make a note of the date and time that my firearm was drawn and fired, the amount of shots I fired, the type of ammunition used, the general description of the target (IE 'human male, <height> <weight>'), and the effect of the shots on the target, so I can put that information in the records I keep on each and every last one of the firearms in my possession.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Mk23
Populated backdrop be d*mned, I know good and well I'm a good enough shot to have made it at just about any distance you'd expect in a mall. And if YOU aren't confident of that, you should practice more until you are.
I'd be the first one on this board to champion proper preparation (both mental and physcial), and practicing until ones skills are automatic. But ask anyone that has had to fire in anger, that as soon as you enter that two way shooting range you undergo many physiological changes that drastically affect your accuracy. No one can know how they'll react until placed in that position. It's hard to hold a gun steady when your heart rate is 180, your caked in sweat and people are bleeding. We can all hope that we have trained hard enough, and are confident enough in our abilities to do what is necessary. Still fact remains, if your in a high stress, high risk shoot, keep it simple, do your damndest to not endanger innocents, and whatever you do, make sure you can live with your decisions (whether to act or not act).0 -
Better to die trying to help others, than to die a coward! 0 -
To put it bluntly...
No matter what the situation is, taking out a maniac with an SKS is probably safer for everyone around.0 -
to put it bluntly again,
It is fine to say what you would have done while you are sitting in your nice safe Den. If you were there who knows what would have happened. maybe hero maybe another body or maybe . . .
BUT i Guarantee if there was a person there carrying with the intestinal fortitude to do what had to be done i think the body coiunt would have been exponentially smaller. . . . another great argument for the universal legalization of LAW ABIDING citizen's right to carry a firearm, heck if it was open carry i bet that guy would have thaught twice before walking into a mall with bad thaughts in his head
REMEMBER; an armed society is a polite society . . . . . . . .0 -
In all the chaos, if he's not facing your direction, you could easily take him out, re-conceal your weapon, and flee.
Witnesses would see the man with the rifle going mad, and ignore you, they wouldn't even be paying attention to you.
Go home(maybe after picking up your casings), watch TV, see if the sherrif is looking for a "vigilante" for questioning, or for a "hero" for a reward and garantee of no charges.
How hard would it be to draw, fire 3 shots, re-conceal, and run.
I'd do it, but I wouldn't wait around for the cops.0 -
As so many have said,.......you don't know for sure until presented with the need.
I would like to think I would have sent any family members, or loved ones with me away to safety, and then set out to do whatever good I could do.
I wouldn't give a thought to the "legal" part though, that I am certain of.
I DO believe there is nothing worse than dying on your knees, begging for your life,........it only gives a person like that more of a thrill.
ALL of us have to die someday.0 -
Concealed carry is worthless. It might let you react, but it will not prevent. Open carry should be legal everywhere. This wacko would have never even been there if there were plenty of people who were obviously armed. 0 -
quote:Populated backdrop be d*mned, I know good and well I'm a good enough shot to have made it at just about any distance you'd expect in a mall. And if YOU aren't confident of that, you should practice more until you are.
[:D][:D][:D][:D]
Now, that's funny right there! I don't care who ya are!
You may be the top pistolero down at the local gun club, but you know what? Them IDPA targets DON'T SHOOT BACK! And that dirt berm ain't gonna sue your ass off or put it in prison for missing the target.
I don't know how big the malls are in your area, but we have a relatively small one here. Small, but there is a long clear hallway from J.C. Penney's to Belk's that is probably 500 feet long. Can you make a sure pistol shot on a hostile target, that is shooting back at you, with a crowd behind him at 500 feet?????
Sheesh!0 -
quote:Originally posted by nunn
quote:Populated backdrop be d*mned, I know good and well I'm a good enough shot to have made it at just about any distance you'd expect in a mall. And if YOU aren't confident of that, you should practice more until you are.
[:D][:D][:D][:D]
Now, that's funny right there! I don't care who ya are!
You may be the top pistolero down at the local gun club, but you know what? Them IDPA targets DON'T SHOOT BACK! And that dirt berm ain't gonna sue your ass off or put it in prison for missing the target.
Sheesh!
+1[:D]0 -
I also agree that open carry, if it were legally allowed and commonly accepted to the point that people wouldn't geek out seeing a gun, would be a big deterrent to violent outbursts such as this one. 0 -
One point that I do not see mentioned is the impact that being shot at would have on the shooter. Even if you did miss this guy, how would he react when he hears the "snap" of a bullet passing by him? He came there to die, would he then turn the gun on himself if he thought that his game was over? 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Mk 19
One point that I do not see mentioned is the impact that being shot at would have on the shooter. Even if you did miss this guy, how would he react when he hears the "snap" of a bullet passing by him? He came there to die, would he then turn the gun on himself if he thought that his game was over?
Distinct possibility,......as they usually "off" themselves when the cops finally show up, and they know the fun is over.
At least with the "kids" with HDD that do this stuff so often.
I truly believe they are bent on suicide, but for some reason, they want to take innocent folks with them.[xx(]0 -
[?][?][?][?][?][?]i thought hard on this one.and i dont do that much but i really think i would shoot him thats what i say now sitting here at home were im safe and comfy but to be there man i dont no[?][?][?] 0 -
pulled my throwdown and shot him given the chance, then give it to one of the dead dudes[;)][:0][B)] 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Marc1301
quote:Originally posted by nunn
quote:Populated backdrop be d*mned, I know good and well I'm a good enough shot to have made it at just about any distance you'd expect in a mall. And if YOU aren't confident of that, you should practice more until you are.
[:D][:D][:D][:D]
Now, that's funny right there! I don't care who ya are!
You may be the top pistolero down at the local gun club, but you know what? Them IDPA targets DON'T SHOOT BACK! And that dirt berm ain't gonna sue your ass off or put it in prison for missing the target.
Sheesh!
+1[:D]
I know it doesn't matter how good I am at competition, target shooting, what have you.
But let me tell you, you certainly aren't doing yourself any favors second-guessing your own shooting ability, no matter WHERE you are, no matter WHAT situation you're in.
It doesn't matter what you think about the difference in situation, it doesn't matter what I think the differences in the situation is.
I /KNOW/ how well I shoot. And if you don't know how well you shoot, you should darn well find out.0 -
I know how well I shoot, but I have never shot at anyone that was shooting at me or someone else, so I can't and won't say how I would perform under those conditions. I do think that I would have to carefully weigh options before attempting a 500 foot shot in a shopping mall. 0 -
I would yell out ..... HELP .... MALL NINJA. I wonder if Gecko45 wishes he could have been there. But if I remember correctly the "Mall Ninja" was more worried about protecting himself from sniper fire than how to take down a crazy gunman.
What I always do in situations is think "Will I regret having not done something in the end?" In other words, after the event is over and done and if I did not do anything to help will I be able to live with myself. I have never been in a situation as bad as a crazy mall shooter so I am not 100% sure what I would do. I think I would try to take cover and then hope to have an opportunity to take the SOB out.0 -
If you doubt your abilities, Yer best bet is to practice your "Mozambique," drill and pray your never called upon to use it. As I said before, everyone reacts differently to pressure but the more natural your shootings skills are the better you will hopefully do if put to the ultimate test of your mettle. 0 -
IMNSHO, winning in an encounter such as the one we are discussing, is more a matter of attitude than ability. 0 -
If I was armed and was in position or could get in position to take him out then I would have no choice but to do so. If I was armed there is no way I could just hide and do nothing while people are being picked off one by one. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by CA sucks
In all the chaos, if he's not facing your direction, you could easily take him out, re-conceal your weapon, and flee.
Witnesses would see the man with the rifle going mad, and ignore you, they wouldn't even be paying attention to you.
Go home(maybe after picking up your casings), watch TV, see if the sherrif is looking for a "vigilante" for questioning, or for a "hero" for a reward and garantee of no charges.
How hard would it be to draw, fire 3 shots, re-conceal, and run.
I'd do it, but I wouldn't wait around for the cops.
And then what do you do when you see yourself on the 11 O'clock news on several survellance cameras shooting the guy and running away.
Why not stick around... it will be very easy to justify what you did.0 -
quote:quote:
Originally posted by CA sucks
In all the chaos, if he's not facing your direction, you could easily take him out, re-conceal your weapon, and flee.
Witnesses would see the man with the rifle going mad, and ignore you, they wouldn't even be paying attention to you.
Go home(maybe after picking up your casings), watch TV, see if the sherrif is looking for a "vigilante" for questioning, or for a "hero" for a reward and garantee of no charges.
How hard would it be to draw, fire 3 shots, re-conceal, and run.
I'd do it, but I wouldn't wait around for the cops.
And then what do you do when you see yourself on the 11 O'clock news on several survellance cameras shooting the guy and running away.
Why not stick around... it will be very easy to justify what you did.
The worst part of the whole thing would being labled a hero by half he country and a murder by the other half. Your face would be on every TV station and your voice would be on every radio station for weeks. Very intrusive if you like to lead a private life.0 -
quote:Originally posted by jhimco
Fortunately for the tax-payers he took his own life.
I figured that in these cases the police stopped him, but say it's a suicide to avoid paperwork and legal clutter...0 -
Given the oportunity I would have taken him out in a heartbeat.FWIW some return fire may have at least taken his focus off killing others.
quote:Report on this one was pretty specific - Police got a 911 call, arrived SIX MINUTES later, by which time it was all over.
What gets me is they played the 911 tape last night. You could hear what was easily recognized as shooting right away. Had I been a dispatcher I would have at least gotten the cars moving then give them further information as I received it. The dispatcher probably lost a minute or more trying to get all the details.0 -
The 911 dispatchers have a screen that showns the address of where the 911 call is coming from. They dont need to ask the caller where he is.
If a dispatcher hears gunfire in the background, they should immediately start units rolling that way and only then ask for more details about the shooters description, number of shooters, weapons etc.0 -
Does the address come up if you are calling 911 from a cell phone ? 0 -
Of course not. 0
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