Felons issued gun hunting licenses
Dozens of convicted felons in Wisconsin were issued gun deer hunting licenses in 2006 despite a state law that bans them for life from possessing firearms.
Felons Buy Gun Hunting Licenses
Key Findings
Dozens of felons bought gun deer hunting licenses last year despite laws banning them from possessing firearms.
Convicted felons are not asked to disclose their criminal history when seeking a hunting license, and the state has no tracking methods.
Rep. Terry Musser (R-Black River Falls) said he will draft legislation requiring criminal background checks on firearm hunting license applicants.
What Other
States Do
Other states such as Rhode Island and Maine have laws preventing criminals from obtaining or possessing firearms licenses.
Rhode Island: The state bars several classes of felons from buying a gun hunting license, including convicted murderers, burglars, rapists and drug dealers. The penalty carries a maximum fine of $500 or 90 days in jail.
Maine: Felons are prohibited from buying a gun hunting license within five years after serving their sentence.
Lt. Doug Tibbetts, a game warden at the Maine Department of Inland Fisheries and Wildlife, said people applying for a hunting license must check a box saying they are not a felon, though their names are not run through a crime database at the point of purchase.
If a felon lies and marks the box stating that he or she is not a felon, it's considered making a false statement, a misdemeanor carrying a one-year jail term. But hunters are basically on the honor system, said Mark Ostermann, researcher for the Maine fisheries and wildlife department.
"We are asking them to attest that they are not a felon, and if they lie on their application the clerk at Wal-Mart won't catch them," Ostermann said. "Does it work? A bad boy is gonna be a bad boy. Does having one more stick to beat them with encourage them to be a good boy? Maybe."
Journal Sentinel Investigations
Watchdog Online: Looking out for Wisconsin
The state, meanwhile, does not prohibit felons from buying gun hunting licenses and makes no effort to monitor if felons are purchasing them, the Journal Sentinel found.
An analysis of records from the Wisconsin Department of Corrections and Department of Natural Resources shows that at least 77 felons bought deer licenses last year. The actual number was likely higher because only one of every five Wisconsin hunters consented to release their names when applying for a license.
The felons identified served prison time for crimes as serious as armed robbery, rape and weapons violations. The situation can lead to some tense moments deep in Wisconsin's forests when unsuspecting wardens encounter armed hunters with dangerous criminal histories.
In response to questions from the Journal Sentinel, Rep. Terry Musser (R-Black River Falls) said he plans to draft a bill next month that would mandate background checks of all firearm hunting license applicants. The bill would include penalties for felons who are found to have purchased licenses.
The newspaper's analysis found that at least 600 felons bought a license to hunt, trap or fish, but the DNR data didn't distinguish the types of licenses, so it couldn't be determined how many of them were planning to use guns.
The gun deer licenses are another matter. The disclaimer on the back of a Wisconsin gun deer license reads, "A hunting license by the DNR does not authorize the possession of a firearm by a felon . . . "
The state cited fewer than 20 felons last year for carrying firearms while hunting - meaning that most felons with gun deer licenses were not caught.
There is no law in Wisconsin that bars a felon from buying a gun deer license - but it is against the law to use one.
"It doesn't make any sense - if they can't hunt with it, what's the purpose of purchasing one?" said Mark Toso, president of the Wisconsin Deer Hunters Association.
Randy Stark, the DNR's law enforcement bureau director, said it's reasonable to assume that someone who buys a gun deer license plans to use it. But the mere act of purchasing one is not a crime.
"Those 80 people have done nothing wrong according to the law," Stark said. He added that the matter is a public policy issue that the Legislature may need to sort out.
"If lawmakers want to pass a law, we are certainly a stakeholder in the discussion," Stark said.
Deep-woods discoveries
Because the DNR doesn't monitor if felons are buying licenses, the discovery most often occurs in the field during hunting season when felons are armed.
On opening day of the 2006 deer season, DNR conservation warden Jon Bronsdon and special warden Terry Boone were checking deer hunters in the woods of rural Jackson County, records show.
David A. Johnson, 46, a felon from Richland Center, convicted in 2001 for intentionally ramming his truck into a pedestrian, stood atop a steep ridge watching as the wardens approached. Johnson began walking away at a brisk pace from the wardens, who had to run to catch up to him.
"Conservation wardens! Stop!" Bronsdon yelled as loud as he could, but Johnson ignored the command. When Johnson finally stopped and turned, he was holding his Remington 700 bolt action rifle at his waist, pointed at the wardens. Bronsdon drew his pistol and took cover behind a small oak tree. After a brief standoff, Johnson relinquished the rifle and was later arrested for being a felon in possession of a firearm, though he had a valid gun deer hunting license.
"In every case I've ever had, they've all known they were a felon and couldn't have a gun," Bronsdon said.
Attempts to reach Johnson were unsuccessful.
"How many felons are out there that didn't get caught?" said Musser, who sponsored a bill in 2001 that would have prevented felons from buying firearm hunting licenses. "Really we don't know what the potential number is until you get something in place."
No background checks
The DNR does not require vendors that sell licenses to conduct criminal history checks before selling a gun deer license, citing cost and time. Once the names of license holders are compiled by the state, there is no effort at the DNR to run the names against criminal databases.
"The question is what would we do with that list if we had it?" Stark said, noting that the law doesn't prohibit felons from buying gun deer licenses.
The current method of enforcement involves happenstance encounters with felons carrying shotguns and rifles.
"I know it would be much easier enforcement if they could cross-reference the felon database with the license database," Bronsdon said. "The system we have now is cumbersome, which is having to find (felons) in the woods - and then they are carrying a gun."
Since 2002, state conservation wardens have arrested 74 felons for firearm possession - all but two during the nine-day deer season, which starts Nov. 17. The penalty for being arrested as a felon in possession of a firearm carries a maximum prison term of 10 years and a $25,000 fine.
According to a 2004 DNR deer season summary: "It's not known how many felons with firearms wardens unknowingly contact, since determining who has a felony conviction requires running a criminal history records check, and this additional check is not generally done during routine checks in the absence of other developed suspicion."
When any of the roughly 200 wardens in the state observe hunting violations such as illegal baiting or possession of a loaded firearm in a vehicle, they will typically write a citation and run a criminal history check with their mobile data computer.
They will enter the hunter's name or license plate into databases maintained by Wisconsin's Crime Information Bureau and the National Crime Information Center to see if that person has prior hunting violations or felony convictions.
Cost vs. benefit
Preventing felons from buying a deer hunting license would improve hunting safety for the public and the wardens, Stark said. But passing such a law and enforcing it are separate issues.
"If someone wanted to create a law to prevent a felon from possessing a license, I would support that," Stark said. "But how effective will it be? How much safer would we be and how much are we willing to pay for that? The Legislature has to decide if it's worth trying to prevent felons from buying licenses in the first place."
If a law were passed in the state to prohibit felons from buying licenses, the most feasible way to enforce it would be at the point of purchase, Stark said. To do that, the 1,461 licensed vendors in the state would likely use their existing computer terminals to communicate with the crime databases to flag felons. Stark said the cost of implementing such a system is unknown.
"Assuming we could get these systems to talk to each other, there is a financial cost to this for the technology infrastructure," he said. "Would I rather not have 500 felons out there? Yes. How much are we willing to spend to get at those 500?"
A bill sponsored by Rep. Sue Jeskewitz (R-Menomonee Falls) in 2001 would have required people applying for a firearms hunting license to undergo criminal history checks. A DNR analysis found that start-up costs to upgrade computer systems would have totaled $230,000 and labor would have cost an additional $217,000. The bill died in committee after three co-authors withdrew their support.
Also that year Musser, the Black River Falls Republican, sponsored Assembly Bill 550, which would have prohibited a felon or anyone convicted of domestic violence from obtaining a firearm hunting license. The bill proposed a minimum $1,000 fine and a five-year license revocation. The bill passed the Senate but died in an Assembly committee.
Seeking a cost estimate
Musser said he plans to introduce his new bill next month and request a fiscal estimate from the DNR to determine its potential cost.
"We want to see how much it would be to routinely run a criminal history check," he said. "I don't know if that's doable. Maybe with today's computer systems there is a cheaper way to do it now. If this is not computer compatible, at least after (a hunting license) is issued, we could have the DNR go through and check everyone after the fact."
Running a criminal history check could put a sales clerk in harm's way by refusing to sell a license to a felon, Stark said. Toso said he thinks running a criminal check at the point of purchase would inconvenience most hunters.
"The background check would be an undue burden on those 99% of hunters who aren't felons," Toso said.
Even if a new law were implemented and felons were cited for trying to buy a gun deer license, it might not change conditions in the field because DNR wardens would likely still have to arrest felons during deer hunting season.
"We might be writing them two tickets instead of one. You can pass a law to say if (a felon) tries to buy a license we will revoke their license for life. But de facto they are already revoked for life," Stark said.
Felons Buy Gun Hunting Licenses
Key Findings
Dozens of felons bought gun deer hunting licenses last year despite laws banning them from possessing firearms.
Convicted felons are not asked to disclose their criminal history when seeking a hunting license, and the state has no tracking methods.
Rep. Terry Musser (R-Black River Falls) said he will draft legislation requiring criminal background checks on firearm hunting license applicants.
What Other
States Do
Other states such as Rhode Island and Maine have laws preventing criminals from obtaining or possessing firearms licenses.
Rhode Island: The state bars several classes of felons from buying a gun hunting license, including convicted murderers, burglars, rapists and drug dealers. The penalty carries a maximum fine of $500 or 90 days in jail.
Maine: Felons are prohibited from buying a gun hunting license within five years after serving their sentence.
Lt. Doug Tibbetts, a game warden at the Maine Department of Inland Fisheries and Wildlife, said people applying for a hunting license must check a box saying they are not a felon, though their names are not run through a crime database at the point of purchase.
If a felon lies and marks the box stating that he or she is not a felon, it's considered making a false statement, a misdemeanor carrying a one-year jail term. But hunters are basically on the honor system, said Mark Ostermann, researcher for the Maine fisheries and wildlife department.
"We are asking them to attest that they are not a felon, and if they lie on their application the clerk at Wal-Mart won't catch them," Ostermann said. "Does it work? A bad boy is gonna be a bad boy. Does having one more stick to beat them with encourage them to be a good boy? Maybe."
Journal Sentinel Investigations
Watchdog Online: Looking out for Wisconsin
The state, meanwhile, does not prohibit felons from buying gun hunting licenses and makes no effort to monitor if felons are purchasing them, the Journal Sentinel found.
An analysis of records from the Wisconsin Department of Corrections and Department of Natural Resources shows that at least 77 felons bought deer licenses last year. The actual number was likely higher because only one of every five Wisconsin hunters consented to release their names when applying for a license.
The felons identified served prison time for crimes as serious as armed robbery, rape and weapons violations. The situation can lead to some tense moments deep in Wisconsin's forests when unsuspecting wardens encounter armed hunters with dangerous criminal histories.
In response to questions from the Journal Sentinel, Rep. Terry Musser (R-Black River Falls) said he plans to draft a bill next month that would mandate background checks of all firearm hunting license applicants. The bill would include penalties for felons who are found to have purchased licenses.
The newspaper's analysis found that at least 600 felons bought a license to hunt, trap or fish, but the DNR data didn't distinguish the types of licenses, so it couldn't be determined how many of them were planning to use guns.
The gun deer licenses are another matter. The disclaimer on the back of a Wisconsin gun deer license reads, "A hunting license by the DNR does not authorize the possession of a firearm by a felon . . . "
The state cited fewer than 20 felons last year for carrying firearms while hunting - meaning that most felons with gun deer licenses were not caught.
There is no law in Wisconsin that bars a felon from buying a gun deer license - but it is against the law to use one.
"It doesn't make any sense - if they can't hunt with it, what's the purpose of purchasing one?" said Mark Toso, president of the Wisconsin Deer Hunters Association.
Randy Stark, the DNR's law enforcement bureau director, said it's reasonable to assume that someone who buys a gun deer license plans to use it. But the mere act of purchasing one is not a crime.
"Those 80 people have done nothing wrong according to the law," Stark said. He added that the matter is a public policy issue that the Legislature may need to sort out.
"If lawmakers want to pass a law, we are certainly a stakeholder in the discussion," Stark said.
Deep-woods discoveries
Because the DNR doesn't monitor if felons are buying licenses, the discovery most often occurs in the field during hunting season when felons are armed.
On opening day of the 2006 deer season, DNR conservation warden Jon Bronsdon and special warden Terry Boone were checking deer hunters in the woods of rural Jackson County, records show.
David A. Johnson, 46, a felon from Richland Center, convicted in 2001 for intentionally ramming his truck into a pedestrian, stood atop a steep ridge watching as the wardens approached. Johnson began walking away at a brisk pace from the wardens, who had to run to catch up to him.
"Conservation wardens! Stop!" Bronsdon yelled as loud as he could, but Johnson ignored the command. When Johnson finally stopped and turned, he was holding his Remington 700 bolt action rifle at his waist, pointed at the wardens. Bronsdon drew his pistol and took cover behind a small oak tree. After a brief standoff, Johnson relinquished the rifle and was later arrested for being a felon in possession of a firearm, though he had a valid gun deer hunting license.
"In every case I've ever had, they've all known they were a felon and couldn't have a gun," Bronsdon said.
Attempts to reach Johnson were unsuccessful.
"How many felons are out there that didn't get caught?" said Musser, who sponsored a bill in 2001 that would have prevented felons from buying firearm hunting licenses. "Really we don't know what the potential number is until you get something in place."
No background checks
The DNR does not require vendors that sell licenses to conduct criminal history checks before selling a gun deer license, citing cost and time. Once the names of license holders are compiled by the state, there is no effort at the DNR to run the names against criminal databases.
"The question is what would we do with that list if we had it?" Stark said, noting that the law doesn't prohibit felons from buying gun deer licenses.
The current method of enforcement involves happenstance encounters with felons carrying shotguns and rifles.
"I know it would be much easier enforcement if they could cross-reference the felon database with the license database," Bronsdon said. "The system we have now is cumbersome, which is having to find (felons) in the woods - and then they are carrying a gun."
Since 2002, state conservation wardens have arrested 74 felons for firearm possession - all but two during the nine-day deer season, which starts Nov. 17. The penalty for being arrested as a felon in possession of a firearm carries a maximum prison term of 10 years and a $25,000 fine.
According to a 2004 DNR deer season summary: "It's not known how many felons with firearms wardens unknowingly contact, since determining who has a felony conviction requires running a criminal history records check, and this additional check is not generally done during routine checks in the absence of other developed suspicion."
When any of the roughly 200 wardens in the state observe hunting violations such as illegal baiting or possession of a loaded firearm in a vehicle, they will typically write a citation and run a criminal history check with their mobile data computer.
They will enter the hunter's name or license plate into databases maintained by Wisconsin's Crime Information Bureau and the National Crime Information Center to see if that person has prior hunting violations or felony convictions.
Cost vs. benefit
Preventing felons from buying a deer hunting license would improve hunting safety for the public and the wardens, Stark said. But passing such a law and enforcing it are separate issues.
"If someone wanted to create a law to prevent a felon from possessing a license, I would support that," Stark said. "But how effective will it be? How much safer would we be and how much are we willing to pay for that? The Legislature has to decide if it's worth trying to prevent felons from buying licenses in the first place."
If a law were passed in the state to prohibit felons from buying licenses, the most feasible way to enforce it would be at the point of purchase, Stark said. To do that, the 1,461 licensed vendors in the state would likely use their existing computer terminals to communicate with the crime databases to flag felons. Stark said the cost of implementing such a system is unknown.
"Assuming we could get these systems to talk to each other, there is a financial cost to this for the technology infrastructure," he said. "Would I rather not have 500 felons out there? Yes. How much are we willing to spend to get at those 500?"
A bill sponsored by Rep. Sue Jeskewitz (R-Menomonee Falls) in 2001 would have required people applying for a firearms hunting license to undergo criminal history checks. A DNR analysis found that start-up costs to upgrade computer systems would have totaled $230,000 and labor would have cost an additional $217,000. The bill died in committee after three co-authors withdrew their support.
Also that year Musser, the Black River Falls Republican, sponsored Assembly Bill 550, which would have prohibited a felon or anyone convicted of domestic violence from obtaining a firearm hunting license. The bill proposed a minimum $1,000 fine and a five-year license revocation. The bill passed the Senate but died in an Assembly committee.
Seeking a cost estimate
Musser said he plans to introduce his new bill next month and request a fiscal estimate from the DNR to determine its potential cost.
"We want to see how much it would be to routinely run a criminal history check," he said. "I don't know if that's doable. Maybe with today's computer systems there is a cheaper way to do it now. If this is not computer compatible, at least after (a hunting license) is issued, we could have the DNR go through and check everyone after the fact."
Running a criminal history check could put a sales clerk in harm's way by refusing to sell a license to a felon, Stark said. Toso said he thinks running a criminal check at the point of purchase would inconvenience most hunters.
"The background check would be an undue burden on those 99% of hunters who aren't felons," Toso said.
Even if a new law were implemented and felons were cited for trying to buy a gun deer license, it might not change conditions in the field because DNR wardens would likely still have to arrest felons during deer hunting season.
"We might be writing them two tickets instead of one. You can pass a law to say if (a felon) tries to buy a license we will revoke their license for life. But de facto they are already revoked for life," Stark said.
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I'm not surprised, it has been going on for yrs. IIRC Utah conducted an audit back in 2005 found that 2 out of every 25 hunters in 2004 had a felony conviction.
The next yr. they announced that they where going to start auditing the application process. They also increased penalties for hunting with ANY weapon as a convicted felon.0 -
Aren't they allowed to bow hunt?
Which brings me to a funny that happened here a couple of years ago.
A convicted Felon got his photo in the local news paper with a huge deer that he said that he killed the first day of rifle season. Once it was pointed out with letters to the paper that he was a convicted felon and unable to own a firearm. He switched his story and told that he killed it with a bow. Wrong move on his part. For it is illegal to hunt with a bow the first three days of rifle only season. Busted and back to the big house for a year or so.0 -
Maybe they are hunting with muzzleloaders. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by allen griggs
Maybe they are hunting with muzzleloaders.
here we go again
quote:Unlike the federal definition of firearm, a muzzleloader is considered a firearm in Wisconsin. Therefore convicted felons may not possess a muzzleloader in Wisconsin, just as they may not possess a rifle, shotgun or handgun. Under Wisconsin laws a firearm includes any weapon that uses gun powder
http://dnr.wi.gov/org/land/wildlife/faq/felon/felon.htm0 -
Thank you, 1911.
This means that the laws of Wisconsin are different from the laws of North Carolina, South Carolina, and many other states.0 -
quote:Originally posted by allen griggs
Thank you, 1911.
This means that the laws of Wisconsin are different from the laws of North Carolina, South Carolina, and many other states.
.........and different from Missouri, and Oklahoma too.0 -
i keep telling you guys it's the future, it can be law in any state without notice, "felons can own muzzle loaders" is becoming a outdated cliche 0 -
If they've done their time, and the government sees fit to release them, their full Rights as a Citizen should be restored.
Doug0 -
Doug Wilson-
I agree.
If they have served all their time and paid all fines, costs, restitution and probation/parole.
If they are so bad they can't own a gun, they shouldn't be out of prison.
If every honest person carried firearms, they wouldn't have to be so intimidated by criminals.
In Michigan, you can hunt with a bow during firearm season if you have a firearm license. Michigan also considers a muzzle-loader to be a firearm as well.0 -
PA doesn't have a "GUN" hunting license, you can hunt with a GUN, bow or crossbow during the GUN season. Some here even tried to get a spear on the list of approved weapons (atlatal) 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Doug Wilson
If they've done their time, and the government sees fit to release them, their full Rights as a Citizen should be restored.
Doug
I partly agree with you up to a point. But what about people who, over a 20 year period or so, committ several violent crimes, get sentenced, serve their time and then get released to society. Some of those people are likely to commit another violent crime based on their past series of violent crimes. I think those people should never be allowed to own firearms or carry deadly weapons.(I know they will anyway, but if they get caught they go back to prison). Otherwise, numerous ignorant victims are going to have to relearn that this particular individual is likely to kill/severly injure over and over again.
If someone has an obvious inclination for deadly violence, let society know and never, ever forget that. Don't force innocent victims to have to be the evidence and reminder of the potential violence in that repeat offender over and over again.
Just as with a dog that is likely to and has attacked, let that fact be known far and wide and keep a close eye on that dog. Don't let innocent people think it is just another friendly, harmless dog.0 -
<---- Calmly waiting for the pin heads to respond that this is OK and its violation of snivel rights.[:D][;)][:o)] 0 -
This is such a none issue it is laughable. If you don't have a gun, then you cannot go hunting. Get all the Gun Hunting Licenses you want, you still cannot hunt without a gun. If they do have a gun, then go arrest their ass and throw them in jail. I think it is a good way cross check these idiots. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Doug Wilson
If they've done their time, and the government sees fit to release them, their full Rights as a Citizen should be restored.
Doug
BS!0 -
I think what Doug meant was that if they were that dangerous, they should never have been released in the first place. If they have committed 3 violent felonies, they should be in prison for good. No release at all. Ever. 0 -
If these numbnuts are stupid enough to pay for a license that they can't use I say "sell it to em".
It's state income, nothing else.
[^]barto[^]0 -
loosing your rights is part of the sentence, and is a discouragement, if everyone would get their rights restored immidiently after serving a sentence or paying a fine, i can only imagine how many ways there would be to manipulate the system
example:Illinois is a non ccw state{agree or not, it is law, lets not get sidetracked}, if i get caught carrying a gun illegally, i very well may loose my rights to own one, if my rights where not at jeopardy i could just continue to pay the fine with absolutely no risk to loosing my right to bear arms, and vote
now before anyone gets side tracked on my right to bear arms, and Illinois suck azz laws, that was just one quick example to exploit the system, and it is not like loosing your rights as a felon is a surprise or only to select individuals, you have been warned, and reminded plenty of times0 -
quote:Originally posted by Doug Wilson
If they've done their time, and the government sees fit to release them, their full Rights as a Citizen should be restored.
Doug
Amen0 -
quote:Originally posted by 1911a1fan
i keep telling you guys it's the future, it can be law in any state without notice, "felons can own muzzle loaders" is becoming a outdated cliche
I agree with you that it probably is the future. But it is not the present law in many states. I know that in North and South Carolina felons can possess muzzleloaders.
I am dismayed to see some of us who think that no felon should ever be able to use firearms again, including muzzleloaders. You have bought into Big Brother's firearms grab. This is the technique of incrementalism.
Big Brother types like Hillary know that they cannot repeal the 2nd Amendment, they will try to do that in the future under President Chelsea, but that is 4 decades away.
Meanwhile, they settle for incrementally taking away our firearms rights.
First it was violent felons. Next, it was all felons, including non violent, that lost their rights. Then, astonishingly, an ex post facto law was passed in the nineties, which mandated that no one guilty of domestic violence could posess a firearm. This law even included domestic violence misdemeanors. If, in the course of an argument, you grab your wife by the wrist, you have just committed a domestic violence misdemeanor. If, twenty years ago, you told your girlfriend that she deserved to be slapped, but didn't lay a hand on her, you committed a domestic violence misdemeanor. There was barely a whimper when this law was passed. Do you remember who was First Lady when this outrageous law was passed?
So, now the move is being made against muzzleloaders. Once again, this is outrageous, as statistics show that muzzleloaders are almost never used to commmit crimes.
I would like y'all of the "No felons get firearms" group to think of the question, "Which group is next?"
You don't suppose that the gun grabbers are content with current law, do you?
I say, watch out, drunk drivers, you are next. President Hillary will pass an ex post facto law agains drunk drivers having guns, meaning, if you got a DUI 20 years ago, and have had a clean record since, bye-bye to your guns.0
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