need advice about disclosing my firearms
My wife and I are going through the state (DFCS) to adopt. Of course, being the Government, they have many regulations and requirements we're forced to follow if we want one of their children (even though WE'RE the ones doing them a favor!).
Anyway, one of which is I have to disclose if I have any firearms, how many there are, what kind, and how they are stored. According to their rules, ALL firearms must be locked away, with a trigger lock installed, and unloaded. In addition, all ammunition must be locked away separately from the firearms.
Now, for my rifles, I don't have a big problem following those guidelines. I don't intend to need a hunting rifle at a moment's notice to defend my home or family.
However, my handguns are a different story. I keep my S&W 686+ loaded, but stored in a small safe under my bed. And I also keep my snubby locked in my, also loaded (of course). So far, they haven't asked to see proof that I store them according to their requirements. I'm just supposed to sign a piece of paper attesting to the fact that I store them "properly" (their idea of properly, not mine).
If they do eventually ask for proof, do I comply when they come for an inspection (easy to do with advanced warning), or deny it saying they have no right to inspect my firearms? I'm not ever wanting to turn my firearms into expensive paperweights just because I have to keep the ammo locked up elsewhere.
And don't even get me started on the fact that they won't allow us to take any foster or adoptive child to a range or handle a firearm or teach gun safety....[:(!] How do they expect children to learn firearm safety??
Anyway, one of which is I have to disclose if I have any firearms, how many there are, what kind, and how they are stored. According to their rules, ALL firearms must be locked away, with a trigger lock installed, and unloaded. In addition, all ammunition must be locked away separately from the firearms.
Now, for my rifles, I don't have a big problem following those guidelines. I don't intend to need a hunting rifle at a moment's notice to defend my home or family.
However, my handguns are a different story. I keep my S&W 686+ loaded, but stored in a small safe under my bed. And I also keep my snubby locked in my, also loaded (of course). So far, they haven't asked to see proof that I store them according to their requirements. I'm just supposed to sign a piece of paper attesting to the fact that I store them "properly" (their idea of properly, not mine).
If they do eventually ask for proof, do I comply when they come for an inspection (easy to do with advanced warning), or deny it saying they have no right to inspect my firearms? I'm not ever wanting to turn my firearms into expensive paperweights just because I have to keep the ammo locked up elsewhere.
And don't even get me started on the fact that they won't allow us to take any foster or adoptive child to a range or handle a firearm or teach gun safety....[:(!] How do they expect children to learn firearm safety??
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I'd say the better question is, how badly do you want this child?
If you want the child, you'll jump through the hoops
If your principles are more important, you won't.
I wasn't aware that there are rules in the book stating you can't take an adopted child to the range....what about hunting?0 -
quote:Originally posted by Rack Ops
I wasn't aware that there are rules in the book stating you can't take an adopted child to the range....what about hunting?
Nope. No firearm handling at all. Well, I dunno, I'm not sure if they can tag along while hunting or not. I guess if they could, they couldn't handle a weapon.0 -
Dumbest thing I've heard in a while....
What state do you live in?0 -
Once the child is adopted, he/she is your child right? Is DFCS going to take the child back if you take the child shooting? 0 -
what guns? 0 -
There are many rules in adopting that go beyond infringements on personal liberty.
Just tell them what they want to hear. Once the kid is home just be a responsible parent.0 -
callktulu:
Once you have adopted the child, are you still subject to inspections and/or controls by the State? This suggests that the state in which you live is insisting that you are not actually adopting him or her, merely entering into an open-ended foster parent contract without compensation. In other words, the state will allow you to accept full financial responsibility for the child, yet will insist you raise him or her as they see fit. Simply amazing.0 -
quote:And don't even get me started on the fact that they won't allow us to take any foster or adoptive child to a range or handle a firearm or teach gun safety....
That would seem to be a clear violation of the Constitution...in more ways than one! Surely this cannot be the case.?.?0 -
Been there done that, in Kansas anyway.
They (the state)do have a right to dicatate rules for foster children. But adoption is a different story. They can make you jump through all their hoops to adopt the child. But, Once the adoption is complete is is just as if that child were born to you. They cannot take the child away from you any more than they could if it were your biological child.0 -
I'm adopted and I want to say there is a time period between when you receive the child to when the judge actually "rules/signs" the paperwork stating you are the childs parents. Maybe that is the time frame they are talking about with the no firearms handling part. I was born in Jan. My parents received me in Feb. but I don't think it was until 3-6 months later that the adoption was finalized by a judge, with inspections in between. Maybe the rules apply to a foster or adoptive child that is 6yrs old lets say, old enough to be exposed to firearms? I can't imagine any "rules" applying after the adoption is finalized. If it does then like said above that ain't adoption that's a lease and I'd find another agency. Good luck on the adoption.
EDIT* I think Bigtire nailed it.
Ben0 -
callktulu, I know each state is unique in laws, rules, regs, and such, but I can tell you from experience, YEAH, JR. IS ADOPTED and we jumped through alot of hoops to get the pride and joy of our life. I have never heard of the no firearms, no range laws. Are you sure that's not just a Foster Child Law? After our adoption went through, I know we couldn't take Jr. out of state or acrooss state lines without our atty's written permission and that stated the circumstances, reasons, length of time, etc. If remember correctly that only lasted less than a year. But raising your own child without the ability to teach firearm safety, hunt, and range time would make me ask more questions from the atty's
JBW1776 is right on the money. Jr. was 5 days old when he came into our life. We endured the agony of thinking the state could take him away for their own reasons if we failed to comply to certain qualifications until the Final papers were signed. He has Two birth certificates, one with his hospital name and his final birth certificate is made just as if he was born with us as the biological parents0 -
Bottom line: God bless you for adopting. Yes, the rules are stupid and I hope they aren't long-lasting.
Once you are finished with the state, you have a DUTY FROM GOD to mold him/her into a Five-Star GUN NUT!
Grandkid #5 was adopted, although privately. He rules that family, and is a twinkly-eyed blessing to us all. In fact, he's almost old enough to start getting some instruction at the range.0 -
Yes, you are all correct: once the child is adopted, she will be MINE (and the wife's), not the states, and we can mold her as we see fir. Yes, it's only during the adoption process that we have to abide by the stupid rules.
And I can't lie about having guns. My sons know we own them, and DFCS interviews all members of the family about everything. I will not ask them to lie. That would be setting a VERY bad example for them.0 -
quote:Originally posted by ECC
quote:And don't even get me started on the fact that they won't allow us to take any foster or adoptive child to a range or handle a firearm or teach gun safety....
That would seem to be a clear violation of the Constitution...in more ways than one! Surely this cannot be the case.?.?
Well, I'm not saying that the State says you can't "teach" firearm safety. But would you recommend teaching someone how to drive without letting them in a car? Or teaching someone to swim without letting them in water?
I would never attempt to teach a child (or even an adult) how to be safe with a firearm without actually handling it.0 -
A couple in my church went to Oklahoma and bought a brand new baby. I think they are cheaper there or something. 0 -
I have my grandchildren by court order and DHS has been to my house numerous times. They've seen my guns laying around and never a word has ever been mentioned. My grandkids are so use to seeing the guns that they are everyday objects. The grandkids know that they could be dangerous and will only handle them with permission. I had a loaded pistol in my Polaris Ranger glovebox a couple of weeks back. My grandduaghter wanted something out of there and a friend said,"hey, you've got that pistol in there." No problem, she got what she was after, and didn't even touch the gun. I've taken the curiosity out of firearms. 0 -
My youngest daughter was adopted through Child Protective Services here in Texas. Of course, this was in 1976, but there was never a mention of guns. BUT, there is a six month probation period between getting the child and the judge signing the final order. THEN, it's yours! 0 -
I think Saxon nailed it. 0 -
You might not be able to allow the child to handle firearms, but not everything that shoots is a firearm. Muzzleloaders and air guns are not considered firearms buy state of federal agencies so feel free to shoot away. If there is any question about the child going out shooting all you have to state is that: yes the child was shooting, but no, the child was not shooting a firearm. What else can they say; can they dictate definitions of laws that contradict the United States Supreme court? 0 -
quote:Originally posted by callktulu
My wife and I are going through the state (DFCS) to adopt. Of course, being the Government, they have many regulations and requirements we're forced to follow if we want one of their children (even though WE'RE the ones doing them a favor!).
Anyway, one of which is I have to disclose if I have any firearms, how many there are, what kind, and how they are stored. According to their rules, ALL firearms must be locked away, with a trigger lock installed, and unloaded. In addition, all ammunition must be locked away separately from the firearms.
Now, for my rifles, I don't have a big problem following those guidelines. I don't intend to need a hunting rifle at a moment's notice to defend my home or family.
However, my handguns are a different story. I keep my S&W 686+ loaded, but stored in a small safe under my bed. And I also keep my snubby locked in my, also loaded (of course). So far, they haven't asked to see proof that I store them according to their requirements. I'm just supposed to sign a piece of paper attesting to the fact that I store them "properly" (their idea of properly, not mine).
If they do eventually ask for proof, do I comply when they come for an inspection (easy to do with advanced warning), or deny it saying they have no right to inspect my firearms? I'm not ever wanting to turn my firearms into expensive paperweights just because I have to keep the ammo locked up elsewhere.
And don't even get me started on the fact that they won't allow us to take any foster or adoptive child to a range or handle a firearm or teach gun safety....[:(!] How do they expect children to learn firearm safety??
They don't want young children to learn that the Second Amendment is a Right granted by God and Codified by our founding fathers.
Tell them what you wish. A fading memory and "errors of omission" can happen from time to time in ones life; we are all human.
Remember Sandy Berger and what he did, and has yet to do. He works for your next POTUS now.0 -
If you are worried about inspections have some of your guns stored at a friends house and leave the 2 handguns in the safe under your bed. And if they inspect your house just say that financial papers are in the safe. Even stick your guns behind a few bank statements. Good Luck 0 -
quote:They cannot take the child away from you any more than they could if it were your biological child.
Social services has taken many biological children from parents based on lies. And the flip side they leave children with parents who only have them to enlarge the welfare check regardless of the evil treatment they receive from the so called parent/s.
Where guns are concerned, it's only a matter of time at the present rate of erosion.0 -
I know this is off subject but the statement, (even though we're the ones doing them a favor) bothers the hell out of me. What about, THE HELL WITH GUNS I LOVE THAT BABY! Thats the way I would feel about it. I am pro gun all the way but I'm pro baby to the depths of my soul. That one statement tells me volumes. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by sarge_3ad
I have my grandchildren by court order and DHS has been to my house numerous times. They've seen my guns laying around and never a word has ever been mentioned. My grandkids are so use to seeing the guns that they are everyday objects. The grandkids know that they could be dangerous and will only handle them with permission. I had a loaded pistol in my Polaris Ranger glovebox a couple of weeks back. My grandduaghter wanted something out of there and a friend said,"hey, you've got that pistol in there." No problem, she got what she was after, and didn't even touch the gun. I've taken the curiosity out of firearms.
to me that is the magic line!
so many are paranoid and never allow kids to see let alone handle and learn safe handling practices, what do they expect when they DO see a gun? THAT is how many "accidents" happen0 -
teach the kid about gun safety first and make sure the child knows what the rules to gun safety are. no matter the age earlier the better. at least if he/she can talk. who cares take him/her shooting and have fun, can u still fish or is that gone to? what they don't know won't hurt. And if they make a problem out of it, get a good lawyer. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by SaxonPig
There are many rules in adopting that go beyond infringements on personal liberty.
Just tell them what they want to hear. Once the kid is home just be a responsible parent.
+1
and good luck to you on the adoption. I'm glad there are good people who take on a serious responsibility of making others' children their own.0 -
quote:Originally posted by cce1302
quote:Originally posted by SaxonPig
There are many rules in adopting that go beyond infringements on personal liberty.
Just tell them what they want to hear. Once the kid is home just be a responsible parent.
+1
and good luck to you on the adoption. I'm glad there are good people who take on a serious responsibility of making others' children their own.
Thanks. As soon as we could get sperm donor to relinquish his rights, I adopted my wife's sons from her first marriage. Fortunately, they were very young, and only know me as their dad (even though we've told them the truth).0 -
If I adopt Cubslover will the rules be the same?[:o)][:o)] 0
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