Perfect cartriges
Been thinking lately about the "perfect" class of cartridges. Those mythical "do it all and them some" rounds that will take down a charging bull elephant while also recoiling as severely as a BB gun. After much research, I've come to a conclusion. Now then, this isn't the "one single cartridge" argument we've all seen a million times before. Like I said, it's rather a collection or CLASS of rounds that I think epitomize the melding of form, function, efficiency and potency. What did I come up with? the "full power" military cartridges in the 7mm-8mm diameter. Fulll power because the "intermediate" rounds don't have enough OOOOMPH to do the harder jobs and no magnums because they sacrifice efficiency, recoil, and blast to achieve "high performance" which is often just marginally ahead of their non-mag siblings anyway.
Think about all the great and legendary rounds that are in this family of bullets:
7X57 Mauser
.303 Brit
7.62X54R
.308
.30-'06
8X57 Mauser
Millions of men have gone to combat innumerable times armed with one or more of the above. No complaints. The bullets are big enough to knock down your enemy, fast enough to reach out and touch him at reasonably long distance and "mild" enough to use for an extended tour with no negative effects on your shoulder (unless you're a little girl or had poor training in how to hold a rifle.) The rifles that each were chambered for are also robust, tough, accurate and reliable. While nothing is truly "perfect" these rounds represent the best of all possible needs, IMO. They can kill a man and 75-90% of the big game in the world, depending on round and loadings.
There are others, less well known, but equally elegant that fit into my classification and prove my point just as well:
7.65 Argentine
7.5 Swis
and even the obscure and all but forgotten 8mm Lebel
All are powerful rounds that, while not battle proven per se, (except the Frog 8mm) I would have no problem carrying with me into a danger zone.
Think about all the great and legendary rounds that are in this family of bullets:
7X57 Mauser
.303 Brit
7.62X54R
.308
.30-'06
8X57 Mauser
Millions of men have gone to combat innumerable times armed with one or more of the above. No complaints. The bullets are big enough to knock down your enemy, fast enough to reach out and touch him at reasonably long distance and "mild" enough to use for an extended tour with no negative effects on your shoulder (unless you're a little girl or had poor training in how to hold a rifle.) The rifles that each were chambered for are also robust, tough, accurate and reliable. While nothing is truly "perfect" these rounds represent the best of all possible needs, IMO. They can kill a man and 75-90% of the big game in the world, depending on round and loadings.
There are others, less well known, but equally elegant that fit into my classification and prove my point just as well:
7.65 Argentine
7.5 Swis
and even the obscure and all but forgotten 8mm Lebel
All are powerful rounds that, while not battle proven per se, (except the Frog 8mm) I would have no problem carrying with me into a danger zone.
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Don't forget the 7.7mm Japanese round.
The rimmed, highly tapered cartridges mentioned, presented limiting problems in automatic weapons design. The 8mm Lebel in the Chauchat
is a good example.
Your point of a 150-180 grain, 30 cal-8mm bullet at 2400-2800 fps is well taken. Those combinations were effective for military purposes since about 1888.
The downside is weight of gun and ammo load and plenty of recoil.0 -
I would even include the 6.5 mm european rounds in your list. The white settlers of Africa used the 6.5s, 7x57, 303 and 8x57 to hunt every animal on the continent, including elephants. Long heavy bullets (for the caliber) penetrated well. Well placed shots did the rest. The old 6.5s are underrated by most of us in the US. 0 -
7.62X39 ??
D.0 -
22mag 0 -
17hmr
204
308
45-70
if you had all 4, I think you could hunt anything in North America.0 -
Consider the .308 Win/7.62x51 NATO to be the closest "all around" cartridge...FN/FAL, G3, M14, L1A1, all battle tested, also used in the General Purpose MG role...M60, FN MAG58, on AC and HC mounts the GE Minigun....sniper rifles...innumerable deer rifles....really a classic cartridge 0 -
Gotta be 30-06! At least in the North American continent. 0 -
The US once had a 6mm Lee Navy and moved up to .30, the Japs had a 6.5 but went to 7.7 in WW2 as did the Italians who upsized from 6.5 to 7.35.
What do you make of that?0 -
What about the greatest brush caliber ever...30-30 0 -
quote:Originally posted by v35
Don't forget the 7.7mm Japanese round.
The rimmed, highly tapered cartridges mentioned, presented limiting problems in automatic weapons design. The 8mm Lebel in the Chauchat
is a good example.
Your point of a 150-180 grain, 30 cal-8mm bullet at 2400-2800 fps is well taken. Those combinations were effective for military purposes since about 1888.
The downside is weight of gun and ammo load and plenty of recoil.
that's why I selected cartridges instead of weapons, per se. I'm well aware of the problems they had in making a rifelman's automatic weapon in a full power loading until after the war (the M1 being the exception), but in bolt action firearms, these are all supreme IMO.
as for the recoil, that's why I limited it to at the outer limit, 8mm non-magnum loadings. while not oppressive to a well-trained non recoil wussy, anything more than a .30-'06 or 8mm mauser is pushing it for most shooters.0 -
quote:Originally posted by wtroper
I would even include the 6.5 mm european rounds in your list. The white settlers of Africa used the 6.5s, 7x57, 303 and 8x57 to hunt every animal on the continent, including elephants. Long heavy bullets (for the caliber) penetrated well. Well placed shots did the rest. The old 6.5s are underrated by most of us in the US.
I didn't include them because they're not quite as efficient as the bigger bores, in terms of grains of powder/ft. lb. of energy, but your point is well taken. My 6.5 swedish mauser is by far my favorite gun, a real peach to shoot and more accurate than me on my best day. starting with the 7mm Mauser and above, however, you get real speed and power because of the heavier, bigger bullets that they use. Like I said, it's not a "perfect" list, but one that encompasses at least 85% of the performance envelopes any shooter would ever need.0 -
Your point on the 6.5s is accepted. BTW -- 7x57 is one of my favorite rounds. Always has done anything that I have asked of it. 0 -
SOME are:
6.5x55
7x57
7-08
308
280rem (more efficient than 7 mag)
260
2430 -
quote:Originally posted by cubslover
What about the greatest brush caliber ever...30-30
More deer killed by 30-30, than ANY other round....
Jeff0 -
Nobody's perfect 0 -
7MM Express (280)
7MM-08
7MM Remington Mag
7MM Remington Ultra Mag
7MM Remington Short Action Ultra Mag
These are the best there ever was or will be[:D]
As far as the turdy turdy killing the most deer ever, I bet you the eastern farmers will disagree with you as the .22LR and .22WMR have killed more deer on farms for crop damage than any other gun could ever dream of[:D][:D][:D]0 -
quote:Originally posted by Pa Redneck
7MM Express (280)
7MM-08
7MM Remington Mag
7MM Remington Ultra Mag
7MM Remington Short Action Ultra Mag
These are the best there ever was or will be[:D]
As far as the turdy turdy killing the most deer ever, I bet you the eastern farmers will disagree with you as the .22LR and .22WMR have killed more deer on farms for crop damage than any other gun could ever dream of[:D][:D][:D]
what? No 7mm Weatherby?0 -
Don't swear at me with that word!!! I had a 7mm Weatherby once and promptly had it rechambered! 0
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