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Good read on Self defense ammo

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13 comments

  • fastcarsgofast
    * You are safer because your attacker is more likely to be incapacitated after one or two shots and thus unable to fire back, stab you, or whatever. The decreased likelihood of your attacker dying from hollowpoint bullets saves you the moral and legal complications and expense you will experience from killing a man.
    * Innocent bystanders are safer because hollowpoint bullets are less likely to exit the attacker's body and go on to injure anyone else. The ricochet danger is also much lower than that of ball ammunition, and hollowpoint bullets are less likely to penetrate walls or doors and strike uninvolved third parties. Furthermore, if your foe is incapacitated quickly he won't be spraying wild bullets around, endangering uninvolved third parties.
    * Lastly, your attacker is safer because he is far less likely to die from one or two hollowpoint bullets than the five or six round-nose slugs you would have had to fire to put him down. Most gunshot deaths occur from shock and loss of blood, and ball rounds tend to make entry and exit wounds, whereas hollowpoints go in and stay put. An attacker shot twice with ball ammo will probably have four holes in him rather than two, and is thus in far greater danger of death from blood loss. If you can avoid killing your attacker you should, for both moral and legal reasons.

    Seems to me that you're better off killing him. For moral reasons you just saved his next victim (you are now a hero) and for legal reasons he is not around to make false accusations (you are now less likely to be sued or imprisoned for defending yourself).

    Also, it may be true that for legal reasons you never say that you shot to kill. You say that you shot to stop the aggression. Remember dead men are not aggressive.
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  • theboogeyman
    Great read, select. I'm a little partial to the Marshall/Sandow stuff myself (as well as Ayoob).....partially because Evan Marshall owns my local gun range [:D]
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  • meunke
    Marshall and Sanow are full of cr@p, fyi. Their science it total garbage, but they do sell sizzle in magazines.

    http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs31.htm

    "Closing the Book on Marshall & Sanow's One-shot Stopping Power Fraud"
    Toward the bottom of the page
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  • William81
    Both were intersting reads...Thanks for sharing.
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  • TooBig
    Thanks for the info and it should generate discussion on loads and defense. thanks for the info again[:D][8D][8]
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  • PC800
    And Fackler knows what he is talking about? He is the idiot that convinced the FBI to adopt the terrible 147 grain 9mm subsonic round.
    After the 1986 FBI Miami shooting, FBI did a ballistics study and Fackler was part of it. He convinced the FBI that at least 12" of ballistic gelatin penetration was required. The result was the FBI, and thus many PDs, adopted the terrible 147 grain subsonic 9mm ammo. I was a cop back in those days and I remember reading shooting reports from all over the country on how badly the 147 grain 9mm was failing. It would penetrate but often not expand and not stop the guy. That was a big reason why so many cops become dissatisfied with the 9mm, the issue ammo was crap. And firearmstactical specializes in pushing their holly grail of big slow bullets, after all these years they still rate the crappy 147 grain 9mm as satisfactory.

    The best way is to find out what police depts use and if they are happy with it. The best 9mm rounds is a 124-grain to 127-grain hollow point at around 1250 fps. NYPD has thousands of officers carrying the Speer Gold Dot +P 124-grain and is very happy with the performance of its 9mm. Orlando, Fla, Police Department uses the Winchester Ranger 127-grain +P+ in 9mm SIGs and they are happy with it also. Of course a lot of PDs carry 357 Sigs (which is just a very fast 9mm), 40S&W or 45 ACP ammo. I have talked to Virginia State Troopers (issued Sig P229 in 357 Sig) and they report outstanding results with the 125 grain HP. Over at officer.com, I have talked with cops from all over and in the 40S&W, the midweights such as the 155 grain Golden Saber seems to be the best in that caliber. In .45 ACP, the various 230 grainers still seem to be the best.
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  • williamprynn
    I want a pistol caliber that will do the most damage WITHOUT going all the way through. I only want to stop the crook, not the old lady next door.I'm thinking 45ACP would stop inside a body but a 357 will pass through the body, the wall, and the next house. Your thoughts please.
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  • RunForest
    I can simplify that whole article... SHOOT THE PERSON IN THE FACE
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  • RugerNiner
    This is my choice for 9mm, 40cal and 45ACP.
    Nowhere does he mention this ammo.
    This ammo has reverse petals on it when it mushrooms tearing and nicking veins, flesh and arteries.
    I think this guy is full of Crap when he says in the beginning of the article that "your attacker is safer because he is far less likely to die from one or two hollowpoint bullets".

    IMG_0115.jpg
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  • PC800
    Runforest: shooting someone in the face is not easy, they don't stay still :) Just try it at the range at 5 yards while the target is not moving, see what percentage of quick shots you can make on that small head on the target in a nice controlled environment. Now try doing it in the dark, while the head is moving, while someone is trying to kill you. Very difficult. Some instructors still teach the old Mozambique drill of 2 to the chest and 1 to the head, but like I said the head shot is hard. I teach 2 to the chest and then 2 to the pelvic girdle, it breaks bone and they fall down and it causes bleeding and pain.
    Williamprynn: you have a good point. I think that is why the slow 230 grain 45 ACP HP and the old 158 grain +P .38 special LHP works so well. Testing numbers do not bear it out, but real life does.
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  • PC800
    Rugerniner: I don't think that ammo was even around when the article was written. Isn't that the redesigned and renamed Black Talon?
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  • select-fire
    quote:Originally posted by RugerNiner
    This is my choice for 9mm, 40cal and 45ACP.
    Nowhere does he mention this ammo.
    This ammo has reverse petals on it when it mushrooms tearing and nicking veins, flesh and arteries.
    I think this guy is full of Crap when he says in the beginning of the article that "your attacker is safer because he is far less likely to die from one or two hollowpoint bullets".

    IMG_0115.jpg



    I believe all the calibers you have listed and ammo is not mentioned to the highly regarded .357 [8D]
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  • RugerNiner
    quote:Originally posted by PC800
    Rugerniner: I don't think that ammo was even around when the article was written. Isn't that the redesigned and renamed Black Talon?

    Yes, but at the bottom of the page is this "Revised 02/2006".

    If it was revised properly then I would think that this ammo would be included.
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