NRA Bows Down Again, 2nd Amend Loses
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I might have read it wrong, but I think the article was talking about preventing firearm sales to the mentally incompetent and challenged. By all means, correct me if I'm wrong. 0 -
From the article:quote:But the state of Virginia never forwarded that information to the federal National Instant Check System (NICS), and the massacre exposed a loophole in the 13-year-old background-check program.I hate to tell these numbskulls, but it wasn't a loophole - it's called doctor-patient confidentiality.
Given that new mental conditions seem to sprout like mushrooms, this is not much of a deal at all - it's a complete and utter sell out. I mean, twenty years ago how many folks had ADD? The proliferation of these supposed conditions along with the lowered standards by which ignorant jackasses can assign said affliction to you means that sooner or later they will classify a desire to shoot firearms as something like "attitude control deficit disorder with violent tendenceies" (or this could be bad for gun owners).0 -
Well the first thing I would say is that I dont believe the Constitution of the United States was meant to be denied to people who have been deemed "mentally unfit" by a group of voodoo magic "psychologists".
How can we allow medical records to be private for everything EXCEPT gun sales ? Why do we just accept how the laws are written about who qualifies as "mentally unfit" ? I bet none of you here even know what criteria a shrink uses to make that determination.
Why was it even necesarry for the NRA to make a deal like this ? What did gun owners get in return ? NOTHING. Why comprimise with a group of people who want to take every single gun in America ?0 -
quote:Originally posted by ElMuertoMonkey
From the article:quote:But the state of Virginia never forwarded that information to the federal National Instant Check System (NICS), and the massacre exposed a loophole in the 13-year-old background-check program.I hate to tell these numbskulls, but it wasn't a loophole - it's called doctor-patient confidentiality.
Given that new mental conditions seem to sprout like mushrooms, this is not much of a deal at all - it's a complete and utter sell out. I mean, twenty years ago how many folks had ADD? The proliferation of these supposed conditions along with the lowered standards by which ignorant jackasses can assign said affliction to you means that sooner or later they will classify a desire to shoot firearms as something like "attitude control deficit disorder with violent tendenceies" ().
lord help me i agree with EMM0 -
OJMayo,
I was just about to say the same about you![;)][8D]0 -
lets just keep this between you and me and not tell anyone 0 -
Agreed![:p][:D] 0 -
quote:Democratic leaders are eager to show that they can respond legislatively to the Virginia Tech rampage, a feat that GOP leaders would not muster after the 1999 shootings at Columbine High School in Colorado. Meanwhile, the NRA was motivated to show it would not stand in the way of a bill that would not harm law-abiding gun buyers.
WOW, I didnt know that being deemed "mentally unfit" was now ILLEGAL in America !!! Maybe Bush should step in and say "we cant possibly deny guns to 12 million people"0 -
Wayne gets another chance to strut!
I'll wait and see how they explain this. But it may cost them some members in the long run. (one anyway) [:(]
Allen0 -
i was a member once but i didnt re-join. my question to them was "what have you done for me lately?" i dont recal getting any new rights to gun in ...well....about EVER !! 0 -
quote:Originally posted by ElMuertoMonkey
From the article:quote:But the state of Virginia never forwarded that information to the federal National Instant Check System (NICS), and the massacre exposed a loophole in the 13-year-old background-check program.I hate to tell these numbskulls, but it wasn't a loophole - it's called doctor-patient confidentiality.
Given that new mental conditions seem to sprout like mushrooms, this is not much of a deal at all - it's a complete and utter sell out. I mean, twenty years ago how many folks had ADD? The proliferation of these supposed conditions along with the lowered standards by which ignorant jackasses can assign said affliction to you means that sooner or later they will classify a desire to shoot firearms as something like "attitude control deficit disorder with violent tendenceies" (I wish you people would quit quoting words I have to delete).
Adjudged insane has nothing to do with Dr-Patient but a LOT to do with what a judge finds and is part of PUBLIC court records.
It's NOT that you checked with your Dr for being stressed, it's that a judge found you to be nuts and ORDERED you into the funny farm.
Amazing isn't it, the the mighty nit-picker, EMM, jumped to the wrong conclusion AGAIN.0 -
Thank you tailgunner, that's what I was getting at. I'm just so sleep deprived right now that that I couldn't come up with the words. 0 -
Tailgunner,
And at what point do they give judges the right to look into ALL mental health records to add to the list?
"Why, if we only look at court-ordered internments, that'll be a LOOPHOLE!"
Besides, said information is already supposed to be given to the system - it wasn't a "loophole." It was a "mistake."
Look 'em up in the dictionary. Go on. I dare ya.
Chances are you'll find there's a big friggin' difference between the two.
And given how "liberal judges" are running the show, do we really want them determing who is mentally healthy?
"Hmm... witness said he's a gun owner and he was a bit testy in court. Okay, I'm remanding you to state mental health care experts for a psychiatric evaluation. No more guns for you!"
And part of the deal is it would allow people to contest their inclusion on the list? Gee, that's great. "Please, sir, may I have more?" What happens if they tell you tough $#!t?
Try thinking before engaging mouth, okay? Sheesh!0 -
quote:Chris W. Cox, the NRA's chief lobbyist, said yesterday that the organization will strongly support the legislation as written. "We've been on record for decades for keeping firearms out of the hands of the mentally adjudicated. It's not only good policy, it's good politics," he said. But Cox warned that if the legislation becomes a "gun-control wish list" as it moves through Congress, the NRA will withdraw its support and work against the bill.
Since when did any bill ever go through the process without getting extra stuff tacked on?
Someone will tack the "assault weapons ban" onto this before it's over.0 -
quote:Originally posted by OJMayo
lets just keep this between you and me and not tell anyone
quote:Originally posted by ElMuertoMonkey
Agreed![:p][:D]
Oh ... now you guys are sneaking around with secrets [}:)]0 -
..."Attorney Genenral of a state has to issue","States clear there backlog", blah blah. IF this thing were to even pass, do you realize how long it would take to impliment, and get up and running, THEN maintained?
...Tgunner is right, it's not what your DR has done/said this or that about you (confidential), but rather if a court has actually declared you a freakin nut-job and a dangerous nut-job at that.
...I have to somewhat agree with the "intent" of the law, BUT, I don't care to see ANY new anti-gun law, we have had enough of our 2nd rights taken already by the anti-gun NAZIS!!!...[;)]
SAXON, POOF IT, IF YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT I'M SAYING...DON'T GO EDITING WHAT I SAY, LIKE TAKING THE WORD "NAZI" OUT..IM A JOO AND IT DOESN't OFFENED ME!!!!!
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Ain't my NRA. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by OJMayo
Well the first thing I would say is that I dont believe the Constitution of the United States was meant to be denied to people who have been deemed "mentally unfit" by a group of voodoo magic "psychologists".
How can we allow medical records to be private for everything EXCEPT gun sales ? Why do we just accept how the laws are written about who qualifies as "mentally unfit" ? I bet none of you here even know what criteria a shrink uses to make that determination.
Why was it even necesarry for the NRA to make a deal like this ? What did gun owners get in return ? NOTHING. Why comprimise with a group of people who want to take every single gun in America ?
Well "Duh" I sure as hell don't want bi-polar and worse mental cases running around with firearms. We get enough bad press with criminals without allowing all people access to guns.
If you do your research you will find that is why guns were removed from many countries. A nut goes on a killing spree and the swing vote sides with anti-gun folks to vote for the removial of guns from society as a whole.
I would like to retain my gun rights as long as possible. If that means that we need to remove guns from the hands of the unbalanced, so be it. Its a positive move in my opinion! Good move NRA!
The rules as to who makes the decision is the only issue here! I don't want this to evolve into another excuse to allow anti-gun folks to take guns away from every one who has ever been in therapy. But if a person has been in a hospital with a documented permanent mental illiness then no guns allowed.
Yea, some people will be pissed because they are OK when on their meds, but if they choose to stop those meds and flip out, climb the trees and refuse to come down then I don't want my family exposed to the danger. No guns for the medicated!
Its either that or we will all have to give up the guns forever because understand this society is getting very gun intolerant already and it will not stand for many more "nut related" killings before Congress will find a way to bury the second amendment.
There are a couple of folks on this forum that society would be well served if they never had hands on experience with nasty ole guns! In my humble opinion, of course![:0][:0]0 -
ADD is the medical term for bad parenting. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by slipgate
ADD is the medical term for bad parenting.
Have to agree.
In addition though, this could also be bad because no gun owner that needs mental help will seek it now. If they would have to begin with, anyway.0 -
quote:Originally posted by slipgate
ADD is the medical term for bad parenting.
Totally agree. ADD and ADHD "suffers" just need a good thrashing.0 -
Quote:
Chris W. Cox, the NRA's chief lobbyist, said yesterday that the organization will strongly support the legislation as written. "We've been on record for decades for keeping firearms out of the hands of the mentally adjudicated. It's not only good policy, it's good politics," he said. But Cox warned that if the legislation becomes a "gun-control wish list" as it moves through Congress, the NRA will withdraw its support and work against the bill.
Read the quote folks, it does not say ADD or ADHD! It says Mentally Adjudicated. Means judged mentally ill. The Virginia Tech killer suffered from Schizophrenia! A nasty condition that sometimes can be controlled with medication. But of course once they are on meds they think they are "healed" and they stop takeing the meds and the cycle begins again. Everything gets distorted and they can and will kill with no thought. The Son of Sam character suffered from that condition also.
Most people with serious mental conditions can not and will not be able to contol their conditions and will become visible to the police and mental health authorities within a short time. They won't make a conscience decision to avoid authorities because they might remove their gun rights, they will not be able to avoid exposure!
Depressed and alienated folks are a different story!
Like anything else a bit of "common sense" needs to be applied to this law.0 -
[8D]-Well OJ, Nothing personal in that comment-right ???
quote:Originally posted by OJMayo
i was a member once but i didnt re-join. my question to them was "what have you done for me lately?" i dont recal getting any new rights to gun in ...well....about EVER !!
--The old JFK statement again--"ASK NOT WHAT THE NRA CAN DO FOR YOU, BUT WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR THE NRA (MODIFIED)--
--[:o)][:D]--JIMBO0 -
The title of this post says it all.
NRA BOWS DOWN AGAIN, 2nd AMEND LOSES!
Remember 1984? Big Brother controls both sides!0 -
The NRA exists for one reason and one reason only. To placate(sp) us so, the goberment can take guns slowly and peacefully. I'll be darned it is working just as planned. Mcaso has it right, they are controlling BOTH sides. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by OJMayo
I bet none of you here even know what criteria a shrink uses to make that determination.
OJ I really am not sure how old you are...one post you say 16, but then you say things like this that make me think you are a little older than that.
But...I will tell you ONE of the multitude of tests that are used by clinical psychologists/psychiatrists to determine a patients status. It is called the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory (MMPI/MMPI-2) Report. It has a 10 scale rating that covers everything from depression to paranoia to social introversion.
Those of us who have been in the military for any length of time may have taken this test on multiple occassions depending upon our jobs or where we were about to be assigned. Being in the medical field, I have taken it multiple times and find that it is a fairly even keeled evaluation. Like any other mental test, it is open to interpretation...ask 10 different docs and you will most likely get 4 different opinions as to the level of depression, etc. But all would most likely reach the same overall conclusion.
Like Sig said, I dont want people who are unstable having access to guns. If we as RESPONSIBLE gun owners do not take the necessary steps to ensure that these whacko and nut cases do not get weapons, then we will ALL pay the price. Let another Columbine or Va Tech happen and see how fast the anti-gunners come down on us...especially if they have one sitting in the Oval Office.0 -
NRA SUCKS!!
WE NEED MORE IN THE GOA!!0 -
quote:Originally posted by medic07
quote:Originally posted by OJMayo
I bet none of you here even know what criteria a shrink uses to make that determination.
OJ I really am not sure how old you are...one post you say 16, but then you say things like this that make me think you are a little older than that.
i never said i was 16. i am no where near 160 -
quote:Originally posted by IAMAHUSKER
The NRA exists for one reason and one reason only. To placate(sp) us so, the goberment can take guns slowly and peacefully. I'll be darned it is working just as planned. Mcaso has it right, they are controlling BOTH sides.
I assume that is a statement meant to "flame" since it does not have a thread of "Logic" in it and makes no sense. Read, study and research what the NRA does and you might get a hint of their value to gun owners as a whole. I have to assume your maturity level is about 15![:(]
I also understand that if you find yourself in the group listed as "unbalanced" these NICS restrictions may worry you a bit!0 -
The whole thing stinks. Nuts to the NRA for having anything to do with any "compromises" with the enemy. 0
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