Hillary - free healthcare!
I'm glad she came out and said this. I might be wrong, but I think most Americans can see that this will increase their taxes through the roof.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/09/17/health.care/index.html
DES MOINES, Iowa (CNN) -- Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Hillary Clinton announced a $110 billion health care reform plan Monday that would require all Americans to have health insurance.
"People are dying because they couldn't get the care they needed when they were sick," says Sen. Hillary Clinton.
Clinton unveiled her "American Health Choices Plan," during a high-profile speech at a hospital in the key campaign state of Iowa, surrounded by supporters, American flags and campaign banners.
"Here in America people are dying because they couldn't get the care they needed when they were sick.
"I'm here today because I believe it is long past time that this nation had an answer," Clinton said. "I believe America is ready for change.
"It's time to provide quality affordable health care for every American," Clinton said. "And I intend to be the president who accomplishes that goal finally for our country."
A Clinton adviser compares the plan's so-called "individual mandate" -- which requires everyone to have health insurance -- to current rules in most states that require all drivers to purchase auto insurance, according to The Associated Press. Watch Clinton outline her health care proposal ?
Under the plan, federal subsidies would be provided for those who are not able to afford insurance, and large businesses would be expected to provide or help pay for their employees' insurance.
Clinton said her plan would not require small businesses to take part, but will offer tax credits to encourage them to do so.
About 46.6 million people in the United States were without health care insurance in 2005, including 8.3 million children, according to a U.S. Census Bureau report released last year.
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"I know my Republican opponents will try to equate this plan with government-run health care. Well don't let them fool you again," Clinton said, explaining that her plan would allow participants to "keep the doctors you know and trust" while it would expand "personal choice" and keep costs down.
Clinton's package would also require insurers to provide coverage for anyone who applies for it and would also bar insurance companies from charging people with greater health care costs more for their premiums.
Under Clinton's plan, Americans would be offered the same health care benefits of private health care plans offered to Congress through the federal employee benefits program as well as a public program similar to Medicare.
Americans satisfied with their current coverage will be allowed to keep it, the Clinton campaign said.
To help pay for the plan, Clinton would also eliminate the Bush tax cuts for those making over $250,000 and limit the amount employers can exclude from taxes for health care benefits paid for those making over $250,000.
In her plan, Clinton said families would receive tax credits to help pay for coverage. The tax credit would be designed to limit the premiums to a percentage of a family's income.
Clinton's announcement marks her return to the health care game, nearly a decade and a half after her first foray. As first lady, Clinton spearheaded the Clinton administration's attempt to overhaul the country's health care system in 1993 and 1994.
But critics attacked the Clintons' plan as socialized medicine, and it was killed by opposition from congressional Republicans and many in the medical and pharmaceutical industries. It was Clinton's biggest political defeat.
Now Clinton is the third of the front-running Democratic White House hopefuls to formally unveil her plan, following Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois, and former Sen. John Edwards.
Supporters defend Clinton by saying that she has already made parts of her proposals public, and she often speaks out publicly about her health care plans.
Clinton's Democratic rivals wasted no time in reminding voters of her timing.
"I commend Senator Clinton for her health care proposal," said Obama in a statement. "It's similar to the one I put forth last spring, though my universal health care plan would go further in reducing the punishing cost of health care than any other proposal that's been offered in this campaign."
Edwards, speaking Monday to the Laborers' International Union of North America in Chicago, Illinois, echoed Obama.
"I'm glad that, today, the architect of the 1993 plan has another care proposal -- and if imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, then I'm flattered," said Edwards, a former U.S. senator from North Carolina. "The lesson Senator Clinton seems to have learned from her experience with health care is, 'If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.' I learned a very different lesson from decades of fighting powerful interests -- you can never join 'em, you just have to beat 'em."
Edwards' proposal would cut off health care for the president, Congress and all political appointees in mid 2009, if a universal health care plan for all Americans has not been passed by then.
Clinton's Democratic rival, Sen. Chris Dodd of Connecticut, used her past attempts at health care reform in criticizing Clinton's proposal.
"The mismanagement of the effort in 1993 and 1994 has set back our ability to move toward universal health care immeasurably," Dodd said in a statement. "We've known what the problems have been for nearly 15 years and what the solutions could be. What's been missing is leadership that knows how to bring people together and get the job done."
Clinton also took hits from GOP presidential hopefuls, including former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani, whose criticism sounded like a movie review.
"If you liked Michael Moore's 'Sicko,' you're going to love HillaryCare 2.0," said the Giuliani statement. "Senator Clinton's latest health scheme includes more government mandates, expensive federal subsidies and more big bureaucracy -- in short, a prescription for an increase in wait times, a decrease in patient care and tax hikes to pay for it all."
Another Republican White House hopeful, Mitt Romney, accused Clinton of taking "her inspiration from European bureaucracies."
"Instead we should take our inspiration from the American people," said the former Massachusetts governor. "Hers is a plan which I think underscores the fact that she fundamentally does not believe in markets and in the states. And I believe that our inspiration should come from American families."
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/09/17/health.care/index.html
DES MOINES, Iowa (CNN) -- Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Hillary Clinton announced a $110 billion health care reform plan Monday that would require all Americans to have health insurance.
"People are dying because they couldn't get the care they needed when they were sick," says Sen. Hillary Clinton.
Clinton unveiled her "American Health Choices Plan," during a high-profile speech at a hospital in the key campaign state of Iowa, surrounded by supporters, American flags and campaign banners.
"Here in America people are dying because they couldn't get the care they needed when they were sick.
"I'm here today because I believe it is long past time that this nation had an answer," Clinton said. "I believe America is ready for change.
"It's time to provide quality affordable health care for every American," Clinton said. "And I intend to be the president who accomplishes that goal finally for our country."
A Clinton adviser compares the plan's so-called "individual mandate" -- which requires everyone to have health insurance -- to current rules in most states that require all drivers to purchase auto insurance, according to The Associated Press. Watch Clinton outline her health care proposal ?
Under the plan, federal subsidies would be provided for those who are not able to afford insurance, and large businesses would be expected to provide or help pay for their employees' insurance.
Clinton said her plan would not require small businesses to take part, but will offer tax credits to encourage them to do so.
About 46.6 million people in the United States were without health care insurance in 2005, including 8.3 million children, according to a U.S. Census Bureau report released last year.
Don't Miss
Election Center 2008
Edwards knocks Clinton on health care cash
"I know my Republican opponents will try to equate this plan with government-run health care. Well don't let them fool you again," Clinton said, explaining that her plan would allow participants to "keep the doctors you know and trust" while it would expand "personal choice" and keep costs down.
Clinton's package would also require insurers to provide coverage for anyone who applies for it and would also bar insurance companies from charging people with greater health care costs more for their premiums.
Under Clinton's plan, Americans would be offered the same health care benefits of private health care plans offered to Congress through the federal employee benefits program as well as a public program similar to Medicare.
Americans satisfied with their current coverage will be allowed to keep it, the Clinton campaign said.
To help pay for the plan, Clinton would also eliminate the Bush tax cuts for those making over $250,000 and limit the amount employers can exclude from taxes for health care benefits paid for those making over $250,000.
In her plan, Clinton said families would receive tax credits to help pay for coverage. The tax credit would be designed to limit the premiums to a percentage of a family's income.
Clinton's announcement marks her return to the health care game, nearly a decade and a half after her first foray. As first lady, Clinton spearheaded the Clinton administration's attempt to overhaul the country's health care system in 1993 and 1994.
But critics attacked the Clintons' plan as socialized medicine, and it was killed by opposition from congressional Republicans and many in the medical and pharmaceutical industries. It was Clinton's biggest political defeat.
Now Clinton is the third of the front-running Democratic White House hopefuls to formally unveil her plan, following Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois, and former Sen. John Edwards.
Supporters defend Clinton by saying that she has already made parts of her proposals public, and she often speaks out publicly about her health care plans.
Clinton's Democratic rivals wasted no time in reminding voters of her timing.
"I commend Senator Clinton for her health care proposal," said Obama in a statement. "It's similar to the one I put forth last spring, though my universal health care plan would go further in reducing the punishing cost of health care than any other proposal that's been offered in this campaign."
Edwards, speaking Monday to the Laborers' International Union of North America in Chicago, Illinois, echoed Obama.
"I'm glad that, today, the architect of the 1993 plan has another care proposal -- and if imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, then I'm flattered," said Edwards, a former U.S. senator from North Carolina. "The lesson Senator Clinton seems to have learned from her experience with health care is, 'If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.' I learned a very different lesson from decades of fighting powerful interests -- you can never join 'em, you just have to beat 'em."
Edwards' proposal would cut off health care for the president, Congress and all political appointees in mid 2009, if a universal health care plan for all Americans has not been passed by then.
Clinton's Democratic rival, Sen. Chris Dodd of Connecticut, used her past attempts at health care reform in criticizing Clinton's proposal.
"The mismanagement of the effort in 1993 and 1994 has set back our ability to move toward universal health care immeasurably," Dodd said in a statement. "We've known what the problems have been for nearly 15 years and what the solutions could be. What's been missing is leadership that knows how to bring people together and get the job done."
Clinton also took hits from GOP presidential hopefuls, including former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani, whose criticism sounded like a movie review.
"If you liked Michael Moore's 'Sicko,' you're going to love HillaryCare 2.0," said the Giuliani statement. "Senator Clinton's latest health scheme includes more government mandates, expensive federal subsidies and more big bureaucracy -- in short, a prescription for an increase in wait times, a decrease in patient care and tax hikes to pay for it all."
Another Republican White House hopeful, Mitt Romney, accused Clinton of taking "her inspiration from European bureaucracies."
"Instead we should take our inspiration from the American people," said the former Massachusetts governor. "Hers is a plan which I think underscores the fact that she fundamentally does not believe in markets and in the states. And I believe that our inspiration should come from American families."
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quote:There's no sign of improvement
And there definitely NEVER will be if our govt. takes it over.0 -
quote:Originally posted by jpwolf
quote:There's no sign of improvement
And there definitely NEVER will be if our govt. takes it over.
Total agreement here. They got us by the 'nads.0 -
quote:You obviously don't have a family. If taking reasonable care of a family exceeds what a working guy can reasonably expect to earn, then something is wrong.
Where do you get that idea from?
Not trying to be a jerk, but do you not have control over how many children you have?
If you can't afford them, and associated costs, why did you do it?
Not trying to "inflame",.......but this thinking is the path to Socialism.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Marc1301
quote:You obviously don't have a family. If taking reasonable care of a family exceeds what a working guy can reasonably expect to earn, then something is wrong.
Where do you get that idea from?
Not trying to be a jerk, but do you not have control over how many children you have?
If you can't afford them, and associated costs, why did you do it?
Not trying to "inflame",.......but this thinking is the path to Socialism.
That is a good point. There are far too many people having children who can't afford them, and then expect society to pick up the tab.0 -
quote:Not trying to be a jerk, but do you not have control over how many children you have?
If you can't afford them, and associated costs, why did you do it?
So, those of us footing the bill have stopped having children, while those who have flooded over our southern border are popping them out as fast as they can.
I have one daughter, would love to have a hundred more just like her, but, I am forced to pay for all those illegal ones. Here's proof.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/parkland.asp0 -
quote:Where do you get that idea from?
Not trying to be a jerk, but do you not have control over how many children you have?
If you can't afford them, and associated costs, why did you do it?
Not trying to "inflame",.......but this thinking is the path to Socialism.
So now I'm a socialist and can't afford to have children. Well...
Look, I am not a socialist. I have two kids, and after the little "snip" can control perfectly how many kids I have. [:D] But, once again, there is something wrong in the supposed "Greatest country in the world" when an average "joe" can't afford health care for his family. I have insurance. I pay out the nose for it because I know we need it. I don't want to live in fear of having to go bankrupt because of an accident or catastrophic illness. My FIL, just a year ago, had surgery for pancreatic cancer. He is outliving the estimate the docs gave him now. And his hospital bill was just a tick short of $100,000. That doesn't include chemo or radiation. Add about another $85,000 on to the total for those. He had insurance, thankfully. He is a retired from the chemical workers union and they have a great penson and retiree insurance benefits. He is lucky. He worked for those benefits, but very very few companies are offering retiree benefits like that today. Why? Expense! And all the negatives we read about Canada and the UK's system...where do you think most of it comes from? WHo do you think wants us to believe that their care is substandard compared to care here? The AMA! The insurance lobby! Used to be politicians who were in the pocket of the AMA and the insurance lobby! All I know is that SOMETHING has to happen. Once again...when the average working guy in this "great" country can't afford to take care of their family because greedy SOB's in government and medical and insurance lobbies want to keep him subservient to the "system", something is wrong. And again, I don't think Hillary has the answers. Her plan scares me to death. BUT SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE!!!
But, according to all you, I need to disown my kids, let them go on welfare and be parentless. That would be the "socialist" thing to do. [:(!]0 -
I never called you a socialist,........you are expounding on the statement.
I said the "thinking" was the path to it.
You just want to be angry,.......that's OK, I can take it.
Often true statements make one angry.
Edit: BTW, you have no idea what my own family has been through health care wise, and the struggles it has involved, just like yours........don't jump to conclusions.0 -
jpwolf,.......that is why it is so important to do everything possible to change things about the illegals.
Things are what they are, until changed though.
It makes me sick every day to see them, and to know that I am busting my azz, to help pay for them![}:)]0 -
quote:Originally posted by spanielsells There are far too many people having children who can't afford them, and then expect society to pick up the tab.
[/quote]
+1
Not only do they expect society to pick up the tab, society IS picking up the tab. They're OK with a minimal existence for themselves and their spawn while decent hard working responsible parents are forced by good sense and economics to limit the mumber of children they bring into the World resulting in their ever shrinking numbers in the face of a population explosion of the irresponsible trash.0 -
Socialism sucks.
We have the best healthcare system money can buy.
Even our economical healthcare is better than Canada's best, England's best, or even Cuba (haha).
The thing people don't like to hear is there is better healthcare but you cannot afford it. Hllary offers a fantasy. The best healthcare for economical prices. Unfortunately, she cannot offer anymore than crap in a brown paper bag.
Shot, our politians can't provide anything more than the minimum healthcare for our veterans with a whole lot of governmental paperwork.0 -
quote:Originally posted by BarkingDog
welcome to socialism...the first step before communism.
just think...once we get government run health care we will have to take steps to lower costs and since guns are the cause of so much health care costs naturally we will have to ban guns.
Closely followed by tobacco and alcohol.
Which means we can get rid of the ATF, and use their $900 million budget to help cover the medical plan.[;)]0 -
If you want to know anything about gov't run health care, ask a vet how he's being treated for service connected disabilities...I'll give you a hint...it ain't all that great. 0 -
With the hospitals going broke helping all the illegals, it won't matter what kind of insurance we have. 0 -
think Mother Hillary and Obama should visit Cuba soon, before the elections. Perhaps they could register all the good Castro-ista Cubans with the DNC. 0 -
Y'all don't get it... You are paying for healthcare one way or another right now. If you don't have any healthcare and get sick.. you are screwed. Billing isn't even the same for those without.. it is higher from the Dr.s. and hospitals. If you have it you are paying high $$$$$ a year. Nothing is FREE 0 -
When Hillary gets in, we will be ready to move forward with our national compulsory full and fair implementation programs for health care in the first 100 days! [:D] 0 -
I think that if your an illegal alien, you should get a free car for every baby you make and drop on our soil, and you should get a better car every time you drop another baby, and at some point you should be able to trade all those babies in and get points to spend on your new house, and for every illegal immigrant you harbor you should get an extra 1000 dollar bonus, and the right to tell every hard working amaerican where to stick it.
Boarder Patrol packed off over 60 people in the last 4 days, 95% will be back in at most two months. I live in a small town, in rural idaho but 60 people is still a fraction of how many illegals are here.
They all want something for nothing, and when that runs out they want more for nothing, or at least something, when they cant get that they want nothing to do with you.
There worse than Parasites, at least parasites have some sort of symbiotic relation with there host..
These people just take take take, and give nothing!!!0 -
quote:Originally posted by fishkiller41
DEAD CENTER!!!
I also agree that the "500K a year folks out there need to be payin taxes on every red fckuin CENT!
EXXON/MOBIL, paying taxes on $250.000 a year ,is a JOKE!!! And not a very funny one either. If EX/MO alone ,was made to pay taxes on their entire profit,THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of people could have ins.
Anyone saying dif. is ranting like a mad man!
If you're 22 years old, of course lowering your toyota is gonna seem better than paying $300.00 a month, for even the lousiest insurance.
Jeff
Do you have even the slightest idea how many total dollars in taxes Exxon pays?0 -
Dlrjj,
Not trying to hijack the thread, but since you're here.[:D] I saw an economist on TV that was speaking on China in the World economy. He seemed sharp, well informed and made some sense to me. The short of it is that he claims the Chinese are purposely keeping the value of the Yuan depressed and gave a lengthly explanation as to why. He said that the Chinese will reverse this in the next 1-3 years and the value of the Yuan will enjoy a healthy increase. I'm wondering if you have any opinions as to whether it would be a good idea to buy Yuan now in hope that this happens. You know me, I'm very financially conservative and wonder if this is too speculative and risky. What would be a "healthy increase"? 10%, 25%, 50%? What would the risks be? This guy says the Yuan CAN'T get any lower than it is now. If a guy could realize a 20% or more increase in a couple of years without undue risks that sounds very good to me.0 -
What he is saying is possible Dak, but I don't think it is sure enough to be worth placing enough money at risk to be worth the effort. I'm well aware that there is money to be made in currency transactions, as well as investment in foreign companies, but it carries too much speculative levels of risk for my taste.
China will almost have to begin to allow their currency to begin to "float" in the next few years, and they already have to a limited extent, but there are no guarantees about the amount or timing of the occurrence of the adjustment, and I'm unwilling to bet on the Chinese. I would guess that they will have to allow a 20-30% change in the exchange rate within no more than 7 or 8 years, and probably much sooner, but they could continue to restrict the normal changes for some time if they wish to pay the internal price. I won't try to outguess the Chinese.
I've always said that I can afford to not be filthy rich, but I can't afford to be poor. I would never risk large chunks of my assets on something that speculative, and small amounts don't do me enough good to be worth the time and effort.
I'm a "buy and hold" investor in items where I can do balance sheet and income statement analysis of the strength and potential of a company, not in the "might happen" events of politics, particularly international politics. There are just too many non financial elements involved to be able to say for certain what people will do, and when.
Companies tend to act in their own best self interests, and those tend to be financial. Countries also tend to try to act in their own best self interests, but those are not necessarily financial in nature.
It may be a good investment, but I want nothing to do with it.0 -
quote:Originally posted by dlrjj
I've always said that I can afford to not be filthy rich, but I can't afford to be poor.
Dlrjj,
Thanks for the opinion. Your statement above describes my financial philosophy better than I could.0 -
I'm willing to pay taxes for a poor working man who's raising and feeding his children on minimum wage to have a proper level of health care as long as they will assure me that not on dime goes to an illegal immigrant. But, NO NATIONAL HEALTH CARE. It's socialism, plan and simple!
I think all American citizens should be able to see a doctor even when they don't have money. The problem is, most states already have medicade to do just that. I have an issue with illegals getting free health care when they are not citizens and for the most part don't pay taxes.0 -
quote:Under Clinton's plan, Americans would be offered the same health care benefits of private health care plans offered to Congress through the federal employee benefits program as well as a public program similar to Medicare.
Just a note: Most of the people that I know on Medicare (govt. run) don't like it. I suspect a public plan will be similar and most likely worse.0 -
The problem is'nt the good intentions....The problem more likely is private companys charging a milion dollars for a wheelchair and medicin costing equal to gold /compared by weight. 0 -
Dak To 68, I recently had a conversation with a British friend, and naturally healthcare came up. I asked him how the free healthcare system in Britain works, and his opinion of it. He laughed, said "One can receive good treatment, mostly in timely fashion depending on the complaint, but it's hardly free. Everything we purchase, from a stick of gum to a new Bentley, has a 27% "value added" tax applied. That's in addition to the healthy income tax that people already pay."
I don't have the exact figure in front of me to corroborate this, but he said that he thought that the "value added" tax in France for "free" healthcare is 38%.
It's also interesting to note that one of our more socialist Congress-people has introduced a fascist healthcare program. Weird.0
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