church rant
I enjoy church. I enjoy singing the hymns, the sermon, all that good stuff.
What irks me, though, is below. I'm curious about what others think about these things. These are all sort of new things in the worship service, at least in my life time.
1. Passing the the peace or greeting your neighbor or whatever. The service is going along and then it stops and you spend a minute making awkward small talk with the person sitting next to you. Then the service starts again, but it takes 30 seconds for everybody to quiet down again. Why is this done during the service? I thought this is what you do in the lobby AFTER the service.
2. Yucking it up. Since when did church become stand-up night? The preacher, the person giving the communion prayer, everybody has to crack a bunch of jokes.
3. Isn't life hard, aren't things tough, there's so much stress today sermons. Sometimes it sounds like Oprah is up there telling the congregation about how incredibly difficult our upper-middle class lives are. Really, honestly, my life is remarkably easy. I have a very high standard of living, and while I do work long hours it's nothing compared to how 80% of the rest of the world works. I have a heated and cooled home, good medical care, and three meals a day. I live better than 95% of the rest of the world. Life isn't tough.
4. Videos during the service. Yes, digital camcorders can be purchased for under $400, yes, video production software is very cheap, yes, a very good video presentation system can be put together by a semi-talented fellow in a long afternoon. Still, why every flipping Sunday do I have to sit there in church like I'm at the movies?
Maybe I'm turning into a bitter, old man, but I remember as a child there being lots of reading from the Bible, several minute long periods of silence for prayer, and the general attitude that this was serious business and people needed to pay attention. Where'd all that go?
What irks me, though, is below. I'm curious about what others think about these things. These are all sort of new things in the worship service, at least in my life time.
1. Passing the the peace or greeting your neighbor or whatever. The service is going along and then it stops and you spend a minute making awkward small talk with the person sitting next to you. Then the service starts again, but it takes 30 seconds for everybody to quiet down again. Why is this done during the service? I thought this is what you do in the lobby AFTER the service.
2. Yucking it up. Since when did church become stand-up night? The preacher, the person giving the communion prayer, everybody has to crack a bunch of jokes.
3. Isn't life hard, aren't things tough, there's so much stress today sermons. Sometimes it sounds like Oprah is up there telling the congregation about how incredibly difficult our upper-middle class lives are. Really, honestly, my life is remarkably easy. I have a very high standard of living, and while I do work long hours it's nothing compared to how 80% of the rest of the world works. I have a heated and cooled home, good medical care, and three meals a day. I live better than 95% of the rest of the world. Life isn't tough.
4. Videos during the service. Yes, digital camcorders can be purchased for under $400, yes, video production software is very cheap, yes, a very good video presentation system can be put together by a semi-talented fellow in a long afternoon. Still, why every flipping Sunday do I have to sit there in church like I'm at the movies?
Maybe I'm turning into a bitter, old man, but I remember as a child there being lots of reading from the Bible, several minute long periods of silence for prayer, and the general attitude that this was serious business and people needed to pay attention. Where'd all that go?
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i agree at are church there is nothing like that,but i go to a small church way out in the country,with about 40 people no cameras,just good old sunday preaching 0 -
our church has an early contemorary service for the young folks who like the technology in the sermon and fancy instruments in the choir then there is a later traditional service for folks who like things the old way 0 -
Services definately aren't now what they once were. 0 -
This is a problem faced by all churches today. Our music minister is constantly trying to appease everyone's taste in music. The older members like the hymns, the younger ones like the praise music, the kids want to hear something with a rock beat. Churches are finding it harder to be all things to all people.
But remember why we are there. It is a WORSHIP service. It's not about me or us. It's about Him. We are there to WORSHIP Jesus Christ.
The videos, the music, the meet and greet during the service, and the various styles of music are all designed to allow everyone in attendance to participate in some way in the worship service.0 -
mlincoln,
Couldn't agree more. It's become entertainment focused and the "new breed" feel they have to jazz up the Word, make it meaningful and hip. I've gotten to the point I dislike the Rock & Roll hymns and the "modern" sermons so much I stay away.
The new breed of preachers are putting their faith in the style not the substance, IMHO.0 -
Videoes during the service?
Whaaa?
Is this standard procedure in churches nowadays?0 -
We have a nine o'clock "Praise" service and an eleven o'clock "Worship" (traditional) service. Most wear a suit and tie to the eleven o'clock service and most wear an open collar to the nine o'clock service. Seems like we have a pretty even mix of old and young folks at both services. I generally go to the eleven o'clock mainly because I like to sleep in on Sundays.
The format of the service doesn't matter a lot to me, as long as the preacher is a Christian and preaches the Bible. You should be able to find the kind of church you are looking for. It might take some looking around, but it's easier than trying to change the preacher, deacons and all the other members. Are you by chance a Baptist?0 -
Raised Lutheran, took about 10 years off, started going again 3 years ago to the local Church of Christ. It's a good church with good people, but I'm just not used to some of the new things. 0 -
One of the bedrock foundations of 'church' is that the way we're doing it is the right way, the biblical way, GOD'S WAY.
And yet, the way we're doing it now is almost diametrically opposed to the way we were doing it 40 years ago.
So, the bible hasn't changed, God hasn't changed....how is it that the right way to do it has changed? If it was right 40 years ago, why wouldn't it be right today? If it is right today, why wouldn't it have been right 40 years ago?
Here's a real life personal experience and observation. As a child of about 11 years age (in 1961) I attended the local Church of Christ, one of three churches in the little town of about 400 people.
A member of one of the other two churches in town (had to be either Baptist or Methodist since they were the only two other churches) made a trip to Louisville, to do some business of some sort or other in the 'big city'. When he returned from the big city, his preacher asked if he'd tell about his experiences in Louisville from the pulpit, how things were in the city, the quality of life and so forth.
So the man said, "Well Sir, I'll tell you what I saw. I saw a woman WEARING BRITCHES!" At that point, there was a collective intake of breath from the 100 or so folks present, so that the atmospheric pressure must have dropped precipitately.
"But that ain't all", he continued, "This woman was CUSSING!!" At which point one brother gathered up his brood of one wife and half a dozen kids, and they quickly made their way out of the church house.
So then, watching the fleeing family leave, and looking around with one of those funny expressions on his face, the man then began with a low voice and crescendoed to a loudly proclaimed, "AND SMOKING A CIGARETTE!!!"
Three sisters more or less fainted with the vapors, three brothers with notoriously scratchy voices and brown stained fingers looked abashed and worried, while over the whole of the church house people looked either, 1) totally scandalized, or 2) toward the floor very studiously. If a body could have bottled high blood pressure that day, he could've made a mint.
Finally, with one of those 'I swallowed the canary' expressions on his face, the brother looked around, allowed a very pregnant silence to envelope the sanctuary, and shouted in a very pentecostal like voice, "And that ain't the half of it. SHE WAS DRINKING A BEER!!!!"
For six weeks thereafter, every sermon, every lesson, from each of the three churches in town, were what came to be known as 'clothesline' sermons. Yeah, religion was serious business in Hardin, Kentucky, summer of '61.
Last summer, riding my motorcycle around my old stomping grounds, I happened to pass my old childhood church one Sunday morning, just as people were filing in for the worship service. And I couldn't help but notice, that many of the women were WEARING BRITCHES!!! a thing unheard of in a woman forty years ago.
That's as far as I cared to go....and didn't want to speculate, not a'tall.
Sahagan0 -
I enjoy a good solemn church service. I was raised Catholic and still consider myself Catholic. I remember as a boy going to 6 AM service ,called the "fishermans" service. Lasted about 30 minutes and was straight to the point. My wife is Methodist and going to church with her is like finger nails on the chalkboard. The sermon takes at least 30 minutes. The preacher has said what needed to be said in the first 10. My wife says I'm being selfish, I say the preacher likes to hear himself talk.
Anyway, with my work schedule, I don't get to make many masses, but a few times a year I get up early and make the 7 or 7:30 catholic mass. It's good for the soul.[;)]0 -
Please remember that what you think is traditional, normal, God's way, etc. was once considered wrong, not good, or not God's way, etc. If you can't remember then go back into history. You might find it fun and silly. Did you know that the only place one could play a trombone was during church service or practice? And most of the standard music of todays churches was considered inappropreate for church. I agree that sometimes churches go tooo far, but maybe it is just too fast. I like the more traditional service, but my son and his wife tend to think it is too fuddy duddy. Churches play the music of their day and our day is almost over and our children and grandchilderns' day is beginning. They want their music. 0 -
There was a time in Virginia when all men (it was before we started calling men adult males) were required to bring a firearm or sword with them to church for services. Things change. God doesn't change. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
There was a time in Virginia when all men (it was before we started calling men adult males) were required to bring a firearm or sword with them to church for services. Things change. God doesn't change.
So is god loving or vengeful? Jealous or secure in his omipotency? Old people tell me god used to be vengeful. Now most people claim he is just and loving. What kind of father sends his son to get crucified? Does he possess human emotions or do we possess god-like emotions? Does god care that you have been married before or have yard children, or is that just a preacher that is upset?
Does god really hate fags or does he have a "Don't ask, don't tell" policy?
How can anyone really pronounce what god stands for? He lets church buses crash into eighteen wheelers, but let Joe Stalin die of old age.
Maybe, just maybe, god didn't create man, man created god? If not even churches are safe from his lightening bolts, what makes anyone think a paperwork snafu won't send them to hell by accident?
Gods change and have always changed throughout history. He needs to be a crowd pleaser to keep the churches full. You can't do that by still showing last years magic act.0 -
skyking God doesn't change. Mans understanding grows. Sometimes it is just learning what is already there. Everything that Jesus taught was in the Old testament. People just didn't know it or ignored it. Case in point is the vengeful, God never was vengeful, people just misunderstood or ignored it. Even today there are people who don't understand, they still think the OT is literal. It was just the way people would remember, it is called story association. 0 -
I believe God created mans brain so that he could think and reason. P3 is a good example. Just as long as we realize that there is a "higher power", you doin' good. 0 -
I feel that a lot of churches have become "social events". A thing to do on Sunday morning to make you feel good about yourself and justify your actions throughout the week (and yourself) as being "Christian". The purpose of organized church services should be to worship the Lord and to "reenergize" yourself for the upcoming week through fellowship with fellow Christians. We are all sinners (and will fall to many sins) and will have temptations in the upcoming week that will test our actions and beliefs.
I am a Christian of Baptist belief and, personally, enjoy the traditional music. I can handle the powerpoint presentations and the casual clothing (as long as the clothing is respectful for God's house). I don't get the term "praise music" for the new upbeat music. If a person cannot understand the words of the songs because of the music/beat then I don't see how it can be more of "praise music" than the older more contemporary (edited: meant traditional) music. All music and song in the church should be praise music.0 -
What we believe depends almost entirely upon where we're getting our information.
As a matter of fact, our being a Christian nation, that is, a nation where church going has historically been an accepted practice, may have done a good deal more harm than good.
That is, people often base their religious beliefs, or their understanding of God, upon what they've been taught in church, or Sunday School, or even in informal debates with friends and family. They've listened to the pope, Billy Graham, preachers, pastors, Sunday School teachers, television evangelists, elders, deacons, priests, drunks, Christians, pseudo-philosophers, radio preachers, scientists and know-it-alls on internet forums. And believe it or not, much of it is simply wrong.
What they generally haven't listened to, is God. God is speaking today through the pages of the Bible. Why say something that is totally contrary to what God has said in scripture? We say contrary things because we do not read scripture, but are repeating things we've heard, or thought, or been told, regardless of whether it's true or not.
p3skyking asks, "So is god loving or vengeful? Jealous or secure in his omipotency? Old people tell me god used to be vengeful. Now most people claim he is just and loving. What kind of father sends his son to get crucified? Does he possess human emotions or do we possess god-like emotions? Does god care that you have been married before or have yard children, or is that just a preacher that is upset?
Does god really hate fags or does he have a "Don't ask, don't tell" policy?
How can anyone really pronounce what god stands for? He lets church buses crash into eighteen wheelers, but let Joe Stalin die of old age?"
The answers to each and everyone of those questions is easily found in scripture. What's apparently not easy, is opening the book and reading it.
The bible tells us, "....the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned". 1 Corinthians 2:14
The natural man may not know, nor recieve the things of God, but bless your heart, he thinks he does. And cares very little for the most part, where he got that 'knowledge'.
Our saying God is this, or God is that, is useless and even counter productive. But at least it's natural. What's not natural, and is even almost rare, is the man or woman who will actually read the bible for themselves, and then let the Spirit of God make it real to them.
I'd hate to go through life, looking for life, and be just too lazy to read the owner's manual. You wouldn't do it with a gun, or your car, why do it with your eternity?
Sahagan0 -
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Aren't churchs like TV? IF you don't like what's going on just change the channel! ...There are a few million churchs in this country, I sure you can find one that "fits" your needs. 0
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