What US Muslims think
Some good, some bad here. I highlighted some interesting areas for me.[;)]
Poll: One in Four U.S. Muslims OK With Homicide Bombings Against Innocent Civilians
Wednesday, May 23, 2007
WASHINGTON -
One in four younger U.S. Muslims said in a poll that homicide bombings to defend their religion are acceptable at least in some circumstances, though most Muslim Americans overwhelmingly reject the tactic and are critical of Islamic extremism and Al Qaeda.
The survey by the Pew Research Center, one of the most exhaustive ever of the country's Muslims, revealed a community that in many ways blends comfortably into society. Its largely mainstream members express nearly as much happiness with their lives and communities as the general public does, show a broad willingness to adopt American customs, and have income and education levels similar to others in the United States.
Even so, the survey revealed noteworthy pockets of discontent.
While nearly 80 percent of U.S. Muslims say homicide bombings of civilians to defend Islam can not be justified, 13 percent say they can be, at least rarely.
That sentiment is strongest among those younger than 30. Two percent of them say it can often be justified, 13 percent say sometimes and 11 percent say rarely.
"It is a hair-raising number," said Radwan Masmoudi, president of the Washington-based Center for the Study of Islam and Democracy, which promotes the compatibility of Islam with democracy.
He said most supporters of the attacks likely assumed the context was a fight against occupation - a term Muslims often use to describe the conflict with Israel.
U.S. Muslims have growing Internet and television access to extreme ideologies, he said, adding: "People, especially younger people, are susceptible to these ideas."
Federal officials have warned the U.S. must guard against homegrown terrorism, as the British suffered with the London transit bombings of 2005.
Even so, U.S. Muslims are far less accepting of suicide attacks than Muslims in many other nations. In Pew surveys last year, support in some Muslim countries exceeded 50 percent, while it was considered justifiable by about one in four Muslims in Britain and Spain, and one in three in France.
"We have crazies just like other faiths have them," said Eide Alawan, who directs interfaith outreach at the Islamic Center of America in Dearborn, Mich., one of the nation's largest mosques. He said killing innocent people contradicts Islam.
Andrew Kohut, Pew director, said in an interview that support for the attacks represented "one of the few trouble spots" in the survey.
The poll briefly describes the rationales for and against "suicide bombing and other forms of violence against civilian targets" and then asks, "Do you personally feel that this kind of violence is often justified to defend Islam, sometimes justified, rarely justified, or never justified?"
The question did not specify where a suicide attack might occur, who might carry it out or what was meant by using a bombing to "defend Islam."
Those of all ages backing at least some suicide attacks were about evenly divided between men and women, with support stronger from those who were U.S.-born and less educated, and those who attend mosques at least weekly.
In other findings:
- Only 5 percent of U.S. Muslims expressed favorable views of the terrorist group al-Qaida, though about a fourth did not express an opinion.
- Most said they are concerned about a rise in Islamic extremism in the U.S. and around the world.
- Only 40 percent said they believe Arab men carried out the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.
- By six to one, they say the U.S. was wrong to invade Iraq, while a third say the same about Afghanistan - far deeper than the opposition expressed by the general U.S. public.
- Just over half said it has been harder being a U.S. Muslim since the 9/11 attacks. Nearly a third of those who flew in the past year say they underwent extra screening because they are Muslim.
- Forty-seven percent said they consider themselves Muslim first, rather than American. Forty-two percent of Christians and 62 percent of white evangelical Protestants identified themselves primarily by their religion in earlier surveys.
- By six-to-one, they favor the Democratic Party over the Republican Party, and by five-to-one say they voted for Democratic Sen. John Kerry over President Bush in 2004.
The survey estimates there are roughly 2.35 million Muslim Americans. Among adults, two-thirds are from abroad while a fifth are U.S.-born blacks.
By law, the Census Bureau does not ask about people's religions.
Telephone interviews were conducted with 1,050 Muslim adults from January through April, including in Arabic, Urdu and Farsi. Subjects were chosen at random, from a separate list of households including some with Muslim-sounding names, and from Muslim households that had answered previous surveys.
The margin of sampling error was plus or minus 5 percentage points
Poll: One in Four U.S. Muslims OK With Homicide Bombings Against Innocent Civilians
Wednesday, May 23, 2007
WASHINGTON -
One in four younger U.S. Muslims said in a poll that homicide bombings to defend their religion are acceptable at least in some circumstances, though most Muslim Americans overwhelmingly reject the tactic and are critical of Islamic extremism and Al Qaeda.
The survey by the Pew Research Center, one of the most exhaustive ever of the country's Muslims, revealed a community that in many ways blends comfortably into society. Its largely mainstream members express nearly as much happiness with their lives and communities as the general public does, show a broad willingness to adopt American customs, and have income and education levels similar to others in the United States.
Even so, the survey revealed noteworthy pockets of discontent.
While nearly 80 percent of U.S. Muslims say homicide bombings of civilians to defend Islam can not be justified, 13 percent say they can be, at least rarely.
That sentiment is strongest among those younger than 30. Two percent of them say it can often be justified, 13 percent say sometimes and 11 percent say rarely.
"It is a hair-raising number," said Radwan Masmoudi, president of the Washington-based Center for the Study of Islam and Democracy, which promotes the compatibility of Islam with democracy.
He said most supporters of the attacks likely assumed the context was a fight against occupation - a term Muslims often use to describe the conflict with Israel.
U.S. Muslims have growing Internet and television access to extreme ideologies, he said, adding: "People, especially younger people, are susceptible to these ideas."
Federal officials have warned the U.S. must guard against homegrown terrorism, as the British suffered with the London transit bombings of 2005.
Even so, U.S. Muslims are far less accepting of suicide attacks than Muslims in many other nations. In Pew surveys last year, support in some Muslim countries exceeded 50 percent, while it was considered justifiable by about one in four Muslims in Britain and Spain, and one in three in France.
"We have crazies just like other faiths have them," said Eide Alawan, who directs interfaith outreach at the Islamic Center of America in Dearborn, Mich., one of the nation's largest mosques. He said killing innocent people contradicts Islam.
Andrew Kohut, Pew director, said in an interview that support for the attacks represented "one of the few trouble spots" in the survey.
The poll briefly describes the rationales for and against "suicide bombing and other forms of violence against civilian targets" and then asks, "Do you personally feel that this kind of violence is often justified to defend Islam, sometimes justified, rarely justified, or never justified?"
The question did not specify where a suicide attack might occur, who might carry it out or what was meant by using a bombing to "defend Islam."
Those of all ages backing at least some suicide attacks were about evenly divided between men and women, with support stronger from those who were U.S.-born and less educated, and those who attend mosques at least weekly.
In other findings:
- Only 5 percent of U.S. Muslims expressed favorable views of the terrorist group al-Qaida, though about a fourth did not express an opinion.
- Most said they are concerned about a rise in Islamic extremism in the U.S. and around the world.
- Only 40 percent said they believe Arab men carried out the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.
- By six to one, they say the U.S. was wrong to invade Iraq, while a third say the same about Afghanistan - far deeper than the opposition expressed by the general U.S. public.
- Just over half said it has been harder being a U.S. Muslim since the 9/11 attacks. Nearly a third of those who flew in the past year say they underwent extra screening because they are Muslim.
- Forty-seven percent said they consider themselves Muslim first, rather than American. Forty-two percent of Christians and 62 percent of white evangelical Protestants identified themselves primarily by their religion in earlier surveys.
- By six-to-one, they favor the Democratic Party over the Republican Party, and by five-to-one say they voted for Democratic Sen. John Kerry over President Bush in 2004.
The survey estimates there are roughly 2.35 million Muslim Americans. Among adults, two-thirds are from abroad while a fifth are U.S.-born blacks.
By law, the Census Bureau does not ask about people's religions.
Telephone interviews were conducted with 1,050 Muslim adults from January through April, including in Arabic, Urdu and Farsi. Subjects were chosen at random, from a separate list of households including some with Muslim-sounding names, and from Muslim households that had answered previous surveys.
The margin of sampling error was plus or minus 5 percentage points
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RAM: I am not the ones with the delusions of some imaginary super being. A god that can do anything (but does nothing), knows everything but (says nothing) and is suposed to be everywhere but (is conveniently invisable), and offers up no proof of its existance. Yep , I do believe you are the delusional one here.[:0]
And that goes for that Dude ALLAH to.0 -
thats why I am loaded for Bear (muslims) actually 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Kimbercolt
thats why I am loaded for Bear (muslims) actually
Now that I can agree with totally,..........no religious arguement needed![;)]0 -
RAM: while on the subject, your answers are typical of the average christian, you offer no basis or facts for your beliefs, instead you throw insults out. When you have proof to offer of your claim then I will listen to what you have to say. It must be irrefutable proof though, not the "I said so" or it is "written in the bible" Real proof, not lame excuses.
On top of that, any rational man knows that if his grass is growing higher than his head, all he has to do is go to the nearest hardware store and purchase a lawnmower that he can actually see and feel. That kinda makes your analogy weak.
Here is something else for you to ponder: When you can understand and realize why YOU do not recognize the existance of other gods, then you may be able to understand why I do not recognize the existance of your god.0 -
I find it interesting that rather than comment on this study and the facts it produced, some people have to try to make it a Christianity post. The post waqs about muslims, and I would be more interested in what folks think about the subject in the post rather than trying to make it about Christians. The post didn't mention anything about Christians. Some folks just can't get past their hatred for Christians long enogh to comment on the original post. Interesting.[xx(] 0 -
Danny: yes christianity is mentioned in the post:
- Forty-seven percent said they consider themselves Muslim first, rather than American. Forty-two percent of Christians and 62 percent of white evangelical Protestants identified themselves primarily by their religion in earlier surveys.
Many "Christians" profess to be christian first and then american because their belief is you cant servce two masters.
No where have I said I hate or dislike "Christians" what I do dislike about many "Christians" is their hypocracy and I am holier than thou attitude. Refusing to acknowledge that within their ranks lie scoundrels and cheats and perverts and then denounce them as being christians and that if you believe anything different than them you are evil.. Well the news is there are a few hundred different religions many more gods believed in than just one. No one can claim to be the right one, they can only believe they are the right one. Because I personally dont believe in a mystical super being does not make me hate someone that does. And when Questioned about their god they get all up tight and give no rational explanations as to why they believe and offer up nothing but ridicule and lame excuses why they cant proove what they believe. Hypocracy at its best..
Hate is not in my vocabulary when it comes to my fellow man, I do however have a deep sorrow for the path that man has chosen to take, not because of his religion but in spite of it.0 -
quote:Originally posted by dheffley
I find it interesting that rather than comment on this study and the facts it produced, some people have to try to make it a Christianity post. The post waqs about muslims, and I would be more interested in what folks think about the subject in the post rather than trying to make it about Christians. The post didn't mention anything about Christians. Some folks just can't get past their hatred for Christians long enogh to comment on the original post. Interesting.[xx(]
[:p] Indeed.0 -
I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord.
He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit
and born of the Virgin Mary.
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried.
He descended into hell.
On the third day he rose again.
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Holy Catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting.
Amen0 -
We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of Life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Classic095
Danny: yes christianity is mentioned in the post:
- Forty-seven percent said they consider themselves Muslim first, rather than American. Forty-two percent of Christians and 62 percent of white evangelical Protestants identified themselves primarily by their religion in earlier surveys.
Many "Christians" profess to be christian first and then american because their belief is you cant servce two masters.
No where have I said I hate or dislike "Christians" what I do dislike about many "Christians" is their hypocracy and I am holier than thou attitude. Refusing to acknowledge that within their ranks lie scoundrels and cheats and perverts and then denounce them as being christians and that if you believe anything different than them you are evil.. Well the news is there are a few hundred different religions many more gods believed in than just one. No one can claim to be the right one, they can only believe they are the right one. Because I personally dont believe in a mystical super being does not make me hate someone that does. And when Questioned about their god they get all up tight and give no rational explanations as to why they believe and offer up nothing but ridicule and lame excuses why they cant proove what they believe. Hypocracy at its best..
Hate is not in my vocabulary when it comes to my fellow man, I do however have a deep sorrow for the path that man has chosen to take, not because of his religion but in spite of it.
Larry,
The post wasn't directed at you, it's just when I made that post it fell directly after yours, so I guess you assumed it was intended for you.
I was just pointing out how some folks here must have really been beat over the head by someone professing to be a Christian to have such strong hatred for all Christians who have never wronged them in any way, and they don't even know. I find that very, very prejudice at the least.
I also see a lot of folks here willing to take anything they can to try to turn it against anyone they perceive to be pro-Christian. I find that interesting too.
Lastly, I find it interesting to live in a free society, yet I am attacked because I profess to be a Christian by the very people who survive under the freedom of religion (none) that I'm being beat with. It's okay for them to be an atheist, but it's not okay for me to be a Christian without them belittling my beliefs.
I have never killed anyone in the name of my religion, but if I say it, I hear all about the Crusades. My answer to that is, I wasn't alive then, I know of no relatives who participated in them, and just like being white and being told I come from slave owners, it's not true but I'm accused of it anyway.
Tell me one place that you see fairness in any of that, then go look at the whole in the ground in New York and tell me it's the Christians fault.
I shake my head in disbelief!
PS, I'm about as unholy as they come. I look down on no one unless they swear to kill me, then I see them as scum and won't turn my back on them. My religion says I have the "hope" of salvation. I cling to that because I haven't earned anything but death in my life. It also tells me "my fathers house is a house of many mansions". I think maybe God reaches out much more than religion does. It also tells me "seek and you will find, knock and the door shall be opened". Sounds like it wide open to anyone seeking God from their heart, doesn't it. I believe we will be judged by our level of understanding of God and if we tried to find him, not by what church door we entered or by how much money we gave.0 -
Christians have at the core of their beliefs a love of God and Jesus. Atheists have at the core of their beliefs a hatred of Christians. I have never once heard an atheists tell me what they believe IN, rather they always say what they believe AGAINST. 0 -
Mr. Mayo, I must disagree, but only a little.
There are atheists, and there are God-haters. An atheist simply does not believe; he has no god. If the atheist is caught in a situation where a public prayer is offered, he will simply bow his head and not make an issue of it.
The God-hater takes his non-belief a step beyond. He considers himself intellectually superior to the believer and will pass up no opportunity to tell him so. If the God-hater finds himself in a situation where a public prayer is offered, he will probably file a lawsuit. Madelyn Murray O'Hare, the famous "atheist," was actually a God-hater.
Among atheists, I have met more God-haters than mere atheists.0 -
quote:Many "Christians" profess to be christian first and then american because their belief is you cant servce two masters.
The only Christians that I know of that fit this description are the Jehovah's Witnesses. They will not swear allegiance to any earthly king or nation.
I find that, and other elements of their belief, repugnant, and so won't join.0 -
Telephone interviews were conducted with 1,050 Muslim adults from January through April, including in Arabic, Urdu and Farsi. Subjects were chosen at random, from a separate list of households including some with Muslim-sounding names, and from Muslim households that had answered previous surveys.
so even if you just take those 1050 that did the interviews , if 1/4 of them are willing to become bombers then that means there are 262.5 potential bombers living here in the US, thats a lot of dead people if they do their stuff0 -
quote:Originally posted by Ramtinxxl
No one should be amazed by the "poll" results. Muslims are directed by their un"holy book" to lie, cheat and kill to gain advantage over non-muslims. Truth be told, closer to 100% truly believe in jihad in its most violent form in order for islam to gain world domination. Those who don't claim that belief are simply lying--or don't truly know their own religion, which is "sanitized and Westernized" for non-arab speaking people.
What's REALLY amazing are the MORONS spiritually-blinded ones on this forum who continue to equate a miniscule percent of a percent of so-called Christians who have committed violent acts (unable to cite Biblical mandates for their actions) with the HUGE number of muslims who have maimed and slaughtered millions all the WHILE QUOTING the KORAN as GROUNDS for their savagery.
Of course, if one hates the true living God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit, anything vaguely related to Christianity is disgusting--and beyond their comprehension. Satan is a liar and has deceived many with his lies...and further seduced the God-haters to spread his lies. Spiritually blinded persons have NO HOPE of ever seeing truth unless God's Holy Spirit opens their eyes. If YOU don't see, pray that God will enable YOU to do so. If you CAN see, pray for those currently blind. Time is short and eternity lasts a long time. Even if one can't/won't believe in an "afterlife," just living out ones days here on the earth without being enslaved by (or KILLED BY) islam might be worth having ones eyes opened to the immediate truth!
Of course, you could be wrong--and die that way. Your choice. [:0]
I don't accept conventional religion but I see some truth in the above post. As a side note, what worries me about Islam is that violence, killing non-believers, oppressing their own women and children, is "mainstream" thinking and acting with Muslims. Where as similar actions with other religions is outside the mainstream.
KInda like a guy who only gets roaring drunk on the weekends, on his days off. Where as with Islam and their violence, and the guy who gets roaring drunk every day of the week.0
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