Marines or Army
Haven't seen enough mud slinging around here lately.[:D]
So i am going start up some trouble.[;)]
One Question!
What division of the military shoots better[?]
Marines or Army.
Let the mud slinging begin.[:D]
P.S.
Mods, Please don't POOF this thread.[;)]
So i am going start up some trouble.[;)]
One Question!
What division of the military shoots better[?]
Marines or Army.
Let the mud slinging begin.[:D]
P.S.
Mods, Please don't POOF this thread.[;)]
0
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Well, it's so bad in the Army, they only let "some" of them carry guns. It's so good in the Marines, even the cooks are riflemen first![^] 0 -
Let me put it this way. A friend of mine is a retired Gunny Sgt from the Marine Corp. He called me last night b/c he stopped by our gun shop while I was out yesterday and he wanted to know if my wife was prior military. I told him no...why.?.? He said he had never seen anyone handle a firearm as well as she did and he wanted to know who taught her...that would be me ARMY[;)] I told him that my 9 year old daughter would have impressed him just as well. I think some other folks have already mentioned it, but you have to be able to do some basic math to shoot any kind of distances...seems like that would rule out the Marines. 0 -
A aint
R ready to be
M MARINES
Y yet0 -
...and the Air Force will revert to the Army Air Corp.
[8D]0 -
I've worked with both. It's a trick question. One thing you have to remember...EVERY MARINE IS A RIFLEMAN FIRST and then he does some other job. In the Army many soldiers don't know what a rifle is... they saw one once at bootcamp but didn't really get to shoot it. That said the mere size of the Army permits that most magnificent shooting program in the world...the AMU to exist. The Army Marksmanship Unit exists to take the best shooters in the United States and give them unlimited opportunities to take their shooting to the next level 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Those at the pinnacle of the AMU are our Olympic and best Camp Perry shooters. The AMU guys who don't make the Camp Perry cut go around the country teaching soldiers how to shoot properly.
Several years ago I took one of my young high school shooters to the Atlantic Fleet Matches...he earned a bronze leg medal there and beat out every SEAL except for Chief Arnold and Chief McMillan..and he did it with an M1!!! When the Army heard about a cadet shooting that well an AMU rep came out watched him shoot and offered him a guaranteed 4 year enlistment in the AMU in the Army. With the idea that with proper coaching he might be Olympic material and if he didn't make the cut he would spend his entire four years shooting and teaching other soldiers...no deployments, no serving with dumb grunts...just four years hammering targets daily. As it turned out he discovered women and elected not to enlist...I can't even begin to say how P.O.ed I was at the loss of his opportunity to shoot for the AMU. That said he has since earned his High Master card and made the President's 100 cut at Camp Perry. He and I are going do be doing a CMP Master Instructor clinic this summer for the Garand and Springfield Matches. I still feel though, that had he he gone to the AMU and received the very best coaching, he would be shooting for the Olympic team.
I tend to rate any USMC MEU(SOC) unit as the equivalent of any Ranger Battalion in combat performance. They are head and shoulders above any normal Army infantry unit in combat skills. I'd rate USMC Recon slightly below Army Special Forces(Green berets)...with deltaforce at the top of the food chain. beach0 -
There is a reason for a seperate Army and Marine Corps.....
Doggies have been jealous of the USMC for years....This is nothing new.0 -
america doesnt even need different branches of the military. its a stupid, outdated idea. 0 -
girl scouts....have you ever seen toss them cookies? they can take out a fat lady at 100 yrds with them things. 0 -
ok dano....I'll give you that one. Your service with the SAS probably got you way ahead of the pack as far as any combat shooting goes. But how many guys from Ranger Battalion got to go to the SAS when you were there. Beach 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Tigerclaw_x
Marines require the LOWEST score on mental aptitude test to pass out of all branches of armed services. That should give you an idea or two.Minimum AFQT to enlist:
USAF-36 points
Navy-35 points
Marine-32 points
Army--31 points
The minimum AFQT level for entry into each service is only one factor to consider if you're trying to demonstrate the average intelligence level of each. AFQT scores are broken down into five categories and each branch establishes what percentage of their annual recruitment will be drawn from each. Currently, the Army allows the highest percentage of lower category recruits. USAF and USMC require close to the same percentages of Cat 1 & 2 recruits.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Tigerclaw_x
Marines require the LOWEST score on mental aptitude test to pass out of all branches of armed services. That should give you an idea or two. Marines have tought physical training then army, that is also true.
To me, signing up right now is not a smart idea. We are involved in yet another Vietnam. They lowered the requirements and now letting in the people with felonies, mental instabilities and those with Nazi background. Do you really want to be surrounded by such people???
I, for once, would stay the heck away from the military for now, if I was forced to go, I would join with the Navy or Airforce. It is safer there, and people who server there tend to be more educated. Also, remember that USMC does have some hazing problems, while USAF is rather free of them, and the Army has much less of a problem with that. Do not join now. Wait until the debacle called IRAQ is over.
If you do want to join up, sign up with the army, and score high enough on aptutude test to be placed in a high tech MOS, far away from harm.
All that from one who lacks the intestinal fortitude to join the military. Coward.0 -
Once again, I am discovering that the REALLY bright, interesting and good looking folks agree with me.
Uncanny, isn't it??
D.0 -
Air Force!! We're all skilled marksmen with minutes of intense training. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Doug Wilson
From a Soldier, the Father of Soldiers and a Sailor, I believe the Marine Corps churns out superior riflemen. Can't speak to the females, as I don't know.
What I DO know, is that if the individual chooses shooting as a hobby and practices seriously, he will (should) become a great shot, regardless of his Service branch - also regardless of whether he is ever in the Armed Services or Air Force.
D.
Doug, you and all fathers...all families for that matter, who have sons or daughters who are serving their country today, or who have served, have every right to be as proud as peacocks! May God bless and keep these great Americans safe and sound all the days of their lives is my daily prayer.0 -
quote:Originally posted by sarge_3ad
This is the one and only case I'm bias and I don't care about facts.
ARMY KICKS ASS!!!!
[:D][:D][:D][:D][:p][:p]
[:D]0 -
quote:Originally posted by Txs
quote:Originally posted by Tigerclaw_x
Marines require the LOWEST score on mental aptitude test to pass out of all branches of armed services. That should give you an idea or two.Minimum AFQT to enlist:
USAF-36 points
Navy-35 points
Marine-32 points
Army--31 points
The minimum AFQT level for entry into each service is only one factor to consider if you're trying to demonstrate the average intelligence level of each. AFQT scores are broken down into five categories and each branch establishes what percentage of their annual recruitment will be drawn from each. Currently, the Army allows the highest percentage of lower category recruits. USAF and USMC require close to the same percentages of Cat 1 & 2 recruits.
The Marine Corps has, on more than a few occasions, out recruited every service where education is concerned, despite any similar criterion. And, that's what counts most.0 -
I scored high enough on the ASVAB to do pretty much anything I wanted.....I choose Marine Corps infantry and led a mortar squad into Iraq.....Most of the guys I served with are finishing up their degrees, one is in law school.....you'd be amazed at how smart some of our "grunts" really are 0 -
quote:Originally posted by HobbyGuy
I served in both and believe you will receive biased answers based on which branch of service an individual served in. [;)]
You're right though, in that you probably will start some trouble with this thread. [}:)]
Read all the posts.
I think i already did.[;)][:D]0 -
quote:Originally posted by HobbyGuy
I did and I bet you're proud of yourself now, huh? [B)]
Just a little bit.[:D][B)][B)][B)]0 -
quote:Originally posted by beachmaster73
I've worked with both. It's a trick question. One thing you have to remember...EVERY MARINE IS A RIFLEMAN FIRST and then he does some other job. In the Army many soldiers don't know what a rifle is... they saw one once at bootcamp but didn't really get to shoot it. That said the mere size of the Army permits that most magnificent shooting program in the world...the AMU to exist. The Army Marksmanship Unit exists to take the best shooters in the United States and give them unlimited opportunities to take their shooting to the next level 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Those at the pinnacle of the AMU are our Olympic and best Camp Perry shooters. The AMU guys who don't make the Camp Perry cut go around the country teaching soldiers how to shoot properly.
Several years ago I took one of my young high school shooters to the Atlantic Fleet Matches...he earned a bronze leg medal there and beat out every SEAL except for Chief Arnold and Chief McMillan..and he did it with an M1!!! When the Army heard about a cadet shooting that well an AMU rep came out watched him shoot and offered him a guaranteed 4 year enlistment in the AMU in the Army. With the idea that with proper coaching he might be Olympic material and if he didn't make the cut he would spend his entire four years shooting and teaching other soldiers...no deployments, no serving with dumb grunts...just four years hammering targets daily. As it turned out he discovered women and elected not to enlist...I can't even begin to say how P.O.ed I was at the loss of his opportunity to shoot for the AMU. That said he has since earned his High Master card and made the President's 100 cut at Camp Perry. He and I are going do be doing a CMP Master Instructor clinic this summer for the Garand and Springfield Matches. I still feel though, that had he he gone to the AMU and received the very best coaching, he would be shooting for the Olympic team.
I tend to rate any USMC MEU(SOC) unit as the equivalent of any Ranger Battalion in combat performance. They are head and shoulders above any normal Army infantry unit in combat skills. I'd rate USMC Recon slightly below Army Special Forces(Green berets)...with deltaforce at the top of the food chain. beach
Beach:
To come to a determination on what "division" (branch of service Army, USMC, Navy, etc.) of the military shoots better, the Marines win hands down - no contest, man for man, and most likely woman for woman. That answers the question in stevenrayspeck's post.
In response to your comments about the AMU, of which I know very little, I have this to say. I'd like to hear what precisely makes the AMU "that most magnificient shooting program in the world" other than sheer numbers, which I grant you that it most probably does have that going for it - greater numbers. This might not, however, equate to greater talent, percentage wise than the Marines have in their ranks. The Marines might well have a decided edge in this arena, too, as they do, hands down, in the regular ranks who are not team shooters.
As for the objective you note about taking the "best" shooters in the United States and giving them unlimited opportunities to take their shooting to the next level 24 hours a day seven days a week, I'd say that's correct after they realize they can't have the Marines, nor those from the other services, nor those in the civilian ranks. Thus reducing this objective down to those in the Army, and known talent and/or team shooters who are in the midst of making a name for themselves in the civilian ranks - thereby having to compete with the other branches of the armed forces once more.
There is not a doubt in my mind that you'd play hell in proving anymore than what I have noted here to the Marines at the MTU, or anywhere else. And, those Marines who fire the division matches and Marine Corps Match, but "fail to meet the standards" to make the Marine Corps Team, go back to their commands and train other Marines, too. I don't have any doubt that when percentages are figured in that Marines have out performed the Army at Camp Perry over its history. And, the Army nor Marines want to go to the extent of trying to prove it either, IMO.
Another note that the Marines' take a lead in over the Army as well is in its Sniper School(s)program.0 -
Kimi.......I thought I addressed your point when I stated that every Marine was a rifleman first. If you had every Marine shoot a match and every soldier shoot a match and average the scores the Marines would win hands down...no question. The point I was making with the AMU is that they actively seek the best shooters in the country and then spend alot of money taking them to the next level. I have never heard of the Marine Corps expending any serious money to develop a trap or skeet shooting team. I don't think that the Marine Corps spends any money obtaining Hammerli free pistols for Marine shooters to develop in that arena. However about four years ago I brought an Army AMU shooter out to my school to show the students the Olympic possibilities available in shooting. This Army shooter had a Bachelor's degree as well as a Masters degree in Russian. She was recruited by the AMU after they saw her shoot. Nominally she was a Russian linguist but she had never served a day in any intel capacity. She was promised shooting as her total military profession. She didn't have a problem being a SSGT in the AMU when she could have been an LT in the regular Army. The Army provided her a couple of Hammerli's and the most incredible computer to which she could hook up one of her free pistols and practice daily in her hotel room or even in her den when she was away from a range. She also shot service pistol for the Army at Camp Perry which she thought was really boring but necessary to earn her keep.
I don't question that at the top of the service rifle arena or service pistol arena the Marine Corps is at least equal and many cases superior to the Army. But when you start talking about OLYMPIC LEVEL shooting unquestionalbly the Army has far far more Olympic success across a wide range of shooting activities....and that was my point about the AMU. Perhaps it is a function of the Army's size that they can invest tons of money in a shooter who just happens to wear a uniform. The Marines don't have the size or budget to spend money on shooters only...they spend their money on MARINES for whom shooting service rifles is a vital PART of being a Marine.
Also kimi I wouldn't pooh pooh the Army sniper program. No question that the Marine Sniper program is great. But the Army's development of some truly unique night time toys is right up there with rocket science. I got to play with a silenced total darkness passive nightvision M14 developed by the Army. Yeah it was years ago and now maybe every infantry platoon has 10 of them, but at the time it was light years ahead of what the rest of the military got to play with. And I'm sure that as a result of that development by the Army the Marine Corps benefited.
Beach
P.S. But as you said to answer the trick question the Marines win on service wide averages.0 -
Dano....It's really good to see you back posting as well. If only we could find Bob in Saint Louis. All the best,Beach. 0 -
Beach:
Thank you for your post here Beach. It's a good one. I'm one person who was never really too big on good old fashioned ribbing until I had served five years with Sailors.
You did address the point regarding the shooting between these two services very well. You also clarified your remarks about the AMU as I asked you to. The offering of special deals to AMU members is a big plus for their unit and our olympic teams, but a slight to their regular duty soldiers.
The Marines, as you know, spend a tour earned at their MTU and then go back to work in their speciality - at least that's the way I knew it to be when I served.
The Corps has, or use to have, an abundance of Distingushed shooters. I might have noted in previous posts that one Marine Barracks team that I was on in Hawaii had four active distinguished marksmen, plus one who had six of the required points in that direction, and me, their tyro. One of the distinguished shooters was our Commanding Officer, but he was involved with mostly training. The Corps back then had an abundance of men like these whose commands would not even cut them loose to compete, while good talent, but lesser qualified military personnel competed at Camp Perry. Heck even the Navy had a lot of distinguished shooters who could not break loose from their jobs to shoot at Perry.
I would not knock the Army's sniper program, ever, in fact, I am very proud of their AMU and Sniper training, to include the Army, on the whole. I would, however, think that they patterened much of their sniper training doctrine based on that of the Corps' sniper program, though, just like they did with their drill manuals. Your point on the Army's contribution to the Corps' night vision capability is well taken. It sure beats the heck out of the old M1 Carbine and the Infrared Scope with its 25 pound battery pack!
P.S. Percentage wise averging at Perry would follow their service wide sucess most likely as well - should the tricks be completely set aside! [8D]0 -
quote:Originally posted by beachmaster73
I've worked with both. It's a trick question. One thing you have to remember...EVERY MARINE IS A RIFLEMAN FIRST and then he does some other job. In the Army many soldiers don't know what a rifle is... they saw one once at bootcamp but didn't really get to shoot it. That said the mere size of the Army permits that most magnificent shooting program in the world...the AMU to exist. The Army Marksmanship Unit exists to take the best shooters in the United States and give them unlimited opportunities to take their shooting to the next level 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Those at the pinnacle of the AMU are our Olympic and best Camp Perry shooters. The AMU guys who don't make the Camp Perry cut go around the country teaching soldiers how to shoot properly.
Several years ago I took one of my young high school shooters to the Atlantic Fleet Matches...he earned a bronze leg medal there and beat out every SEAL except for Chief Arnold and Chief McMillan..and he did it with an M1!!! When the Army heard about a cadet shooting that well an AMU rep came out watched him shoot and offered him a guaranteed 4 year enlistment in the AMU in the Army. With the idea that with proper coaching he might be Olympic material and if he didn't make the cut he would spend his entire four years shooting and teaching other soldiers...no deployments, no serving with dumb grunts...just four years hammering targets daily. As it turned out he discovered women and elected not to enlist...I can't even begin to say how P.O.ed I was at the loss of his opportunity to shoot for the AMU. That said he has since earned his High Master card and made the President's 100 cut at Camp Perry. He and I are going do be doing a CMP Master Instructor clinic this summer for the Garand and Springfield Matches. I still feel though, that had he he gone to the AMU and received the very best coaching, he would be shooting for the Olympic team.
I tend to rate any USMC MEU(SOC) unit as the equivalent of any Ranger Battalion in combat performance. They are head and shoulders above any normal Army infantry unit in combat skills. I'd rate USMC Recon slightly below Army Special Forces(Green berets)...with deltaforce at the top of the food chain. beach
Well Beach, I know there will be someone here ready to jump on me for agreeing with your post...[}:)] I still do![:D]0
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