ATF investigates fires?
We had an arson here last month and the ATF was involved in the investigation. I assumed this was because a gun shop was located in the building.
The news reports say the ATF is participating in the furniture store fire in South Carolina.
Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms... I'm not seeing anything related to arson there.
The news reports say the ATF is participating in the furniture store fire in South Carolina.
Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms... I'm not seeing anything related to arson there.
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You cant spell firearms, without 'fire'!
Honestly, who knows. The ATF is probably trying to justify its pathetic existence.0 -
Yes, they do, when requested. Look at it this way: The more of these "officers" there are investigating fires, the fewer there are to harass, intimidate, confiscate property from, entrap, murder, set fire to, honest citizens. 0 -
They're in the business of finding bodies. If a crime might have been committed with explosives or an accelerant, they're there.
Occasionally I see one of the boys tagging along with the Township Police. He usually will stand slightly apart. Maybe it is hard making friends, when you're always thinking about the job security that would come with a police state and gun confiscation with only probable cause.0 -
The more investigators the more chance of finding out what happened. Had a rental property burn many years ago. Arson investigator calls me at home 90 miles away. I meet up with him on the site. Fill out paperwork and answer questions where I was when it happened. I was home watching a ball game. State brought in some kind of machine and determined it was Arson. The arsonist used a molentolf cocktail. He was an evictee for nonpayment of rent. I had insurance and the arsonist is still serving time. SC just passed a new law. If an Arsonist causes death of a person while setting a fire they can be convicted of murder. 0 -
Henry,
This is from the BATFE website which explains the expansion from just the ATF into Arson & Explosives:
Programs
ATF is a law enforcement organization within the United States Department of Justice with unique responsibilities dedicated to protecting the public and reducing violent crime. ATF enforces the Federal laws and regulations regarding explosives and arson.
http://www.atf.treas.gov/explarson/index.htm
Best.0 -
quote:Originally posted by nononsense
This is from the BATFE website which explains the expansion from just the ATF into Arson & Explosives:Their duties haven't changed, they just added the E to their name several years back as a matter of clarification. Investigations involving explosives and assisting other agencies in arson investigations has been part of this agency's mission statement since it's inception. After all, explosions and fires are technically the same, one just involves a faster burn rate.
Their assistance is often requested in possible arson fires involving either particularly heavy property loss or loss of life. Their lab resources are invaluable in such cases.0 -
Arson is an extremely difficult charge to prove, as so much evidence in destroyed by the fire. Special expertise and equipment not available in most jurisdictions are needed. 0 -
I wouldn't expect much results from the ATF arson investigators.
When I was going to college at Southern Illinois, an apartment building was burned by an arsonist the took gasoline down the hallway. Several people died. The ATF came in to investigate.
The story around town was the ATF got drunk. SIU was ranked #4 party school in the nation at that time.
As far as I know the crime was never solved.
I just wonder what the ATF's arrest and conviction ratings are for known crimes involving alcohol, tobacco, or arson. I suspect the ATF can be downsized and disolved.0 -
quote:I suspect the ATF can be downsized and disolved.(sic)
I suspect Kenyon Ballew, Randy Weaver, and their families and friends, among many others, would agree.0 -
It's hard for me to write this off as just being semantics. In my conversations with the mid- and upper echelons of BATFE, when asked about areas of responsibility, the responses have been "the increase in the areas of responsibility". This was in conjunction with the transition to the Treasury Dept.
As has been noted also by those of us who have to pay the BATFE, that increase in the areas of responsibility has brought about a new set of guidelines for making the BATFE a larger (broader) taxing authority. You can attribute that to anything you want but the basic concept is that BATFE has been charged with raising a substantial portion of their budget by increasing taxes. You've already seen this with Alcohol and Tobacco. This fits right in with the anti-gun officials since the larger the burden they can put on those of us who work with firearms, the better, since it can lead to a diminishing pool of firearms builders and gunsmiths. Instead of using the laws to make firearms illegal, they will tax us into oblivian.
Believe what you want, I'm just trying to pass along information as it was told to me. I'm sure that a different story can be had by talking to another "official".
Best.0 -
Just a foot in the door to a national police force. All federal law enforcers will be able to to it all.
Wait a few years and see.0 -
GOD BLESS THOSE FIRE FIGHTERS AND THEIR FAMILIES.........wow you guys are something 0 -
Hey reloader44mag,
This thread is about the ATFE being at the scene to investigate the fire. There is another thread about the firefighters. Go visit it.
Got Guns?0 -
quote:Originally posted by nononsense
It's hard for me to write this off as just being semantics. In my conversations with the mid- and upper echelons of BATFE, when asked about areas of responsibility, the responses have been "the increase in the areas of responsibility". This was in conjunction with the transition to the Treasury Dept.You've got it backwards. This agency was a part of the Treasury Dept. since it's origin and recently moved over to the Dept. of Justice.
Their duties did in fact change with this move, largely because a new agency (Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau) was created within the Treasury Dept. to take over their alcohol and tobacco tax collection duties.
Their involvement with investigation of arsons and bombings did not originate with this move. I've been dealing with them on this kind of stuff for the past 30 years.0
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