Why don't cops take finger prints?
When I lived out in the country in central Georgia, some friends of mine got burglarized.
Standard chicken crap burglary, both people were gone to work, jimmied the back door with a crowbar, took cameras, cash, computers.
The SO came out and investigated. There were very nice, they were there for about and hour.
Then the deputies were leaving without taking finger prints.
The homeowners asked them about this, they said they would have to get the guy from the station to come out and take the prints. The print guy never showed.
My girlfriend owned a rental house in Atlanta. It was in a nice neighborhood, but just three blocks away was a "low income neighborhood," a small little neighborhood of about 300 houses.
On six occasions this house got burgled. Same deal, they either jimmied the back door, or they went in through a window, took big screen tv, cash, laptop computers.
I was over there on 4 of these occasions. The DeKalb county police refused to take fingerprints, although we requested it.
It is not like a hit team flew in from Vegas to do this job, and then flew back. There was a 99 percent chance that the burglars were from this bad neighborhood three blocks away. There was a 98 per cent chance that these burglars had been arrested by DeKalb police, and they already had those prints on file.
Why don't cops take finger prints?
Standard chicken crap burglary, both people were gone to work, jimmied the back door with a crowbar, took cameras, cash, computers.
The SO came out and investigated. There were very nice, they were there for about and hour.
Then the deputies were leaving without taking finger prints.
The homeowners asked them about this, they said they would have to get the guy from the station to come out and take the prints. The print guy never showed.
My girlfriend owned a rental house in Atlanta. It was in a nice neighborhood, but just three blocks away was a "low income neighborhood," a small little neighborhood of about 300 houses.
On six occasions this house got burgled. Same deal, they either jimmied the back door, or they went in through a window, took big screen tv, cash, laptop computers.
I was over there on 4 of these occasions. The DeKalb county police refused to take fingerprints, although we requested it.
It is not like a hit team flew in from Vegas to do this job, and then flew back. There was a 99 percent chance that the burglars were from this bad neighborhood three blocks away. There was a 98 per cent chance that these burglars had been arrested by DeKalb police, and they already had those prints on file.
Why don't cops take finger prints?
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Fingerprints are only good if they are on file in the national database, otherwise they are pretty much useless at a crime scene if you have no suspects to compare them with... 0 -
You also cannot get finger prints off of all surfaces, despite the garbage you see on CSI. Glass is best, glossy formica, and slick finished furniture. They also have to take prints from the people in residence and everyone that has been there. Then the prints have to be in a data base to match with someone. Cops make a pile of their arrests because 1. Criminals are dumb, and 2. Criminals are blabbermouths. 0 -
Also, cops don't always want to take the time to take the prints and process them. 0 -
Fingerprint dust will make a huge mess of anything in the general area, and taking prints is pointless without having a suspect to compare the prints to. You can't just take a latent print and slide it into the bat-puter like they do on TV.
Some lucky areas do have an automated fingerprint ID system (AFIS), but they are in such demand that it is reserved for home invasions, rapes, murders. In areas that don't have AFIS or APIS some poor schmuk has to spend countless hours looking at all the fingerprints on file for comparison.0 -
Besides all the very good reasons given by others, very few prints taken on scene are actually good enough to even be processed. TV and movies as usual do not depict reality. Unfortunately most of what people think they know comes from the fantasies of some Hollywood director who seldom knows anything about the subject they are presenting. As I type this there is an old Bond movie playing (Roger Moore, who stated he would not play James Bond again because he hated all the guns involved, screw him), and he is being fired at while skying, and ricochets are flying off the snow. While I enjoy the original CSI, it is not anything like real police forensics. 0 -
Without knowing all the facts I can't make any guesses on why no attempt was made to lift latent prints, but can clear up part of this.
The fact that there's a good chance the perp(s) have been arrested/fingerprinted by the same agency investigating your burglary means nothing unless they have a specific suspect to manually compare them with. Very few individual agencies in the country currently have the capability of maintaining a database where they simply scan in a latent print and it spits out any matches.
The feds maintain a database of fingerprints submitted by individual agencies and their own prison system, but some states have also begun to maintain a database of all inmates received by their prison system. I have no idea if such a system exists in Georgia, but even if it does don't expect this will be checked over a simple burglary due to the high demand for inquiries and probably a very limited number of access terminals. This is fairly new stuff for many areas of the country but it's use is slowly growing.
By referring to these as simple burglaries I don't mean to minimize your crime because I absolutely hate burglars, who are in fact the focus of quite a bit of my energy. The issue is that at this point in time these fingerprint resources are seriously limited and their use is focused mainly on either serial criminals or those involving serious crimes against persons, such as rapes and murders.0 -
Your lucky they showed up to investigate.
In many places, they just take a report over the phone, now days.
Asset allocation. Taking, checking, etc. fingerprints are a lot of work. Depending on location, many big city police departments are not going to waste assets on any petty burglary. Too many of them. Was told that by Denver cops over 30 years ago. I'm SURE it has NOT gotten any better.0 -
I had a discussion with one of the evidence techs in the city I lived in several years ago, he said the same as above, they need a perp to look at first, he also said that only the most heinous crimes get prints sent to the FBI, he said it costs the city $5k for a print search.[:0]
That was before PC's were everywhere though, I imagine it has come down since.....
Don0 -
so when they get a suspect they come back for the prints, right? that sounds like pure laziness and an lousy excuse. I mean, yeah, maybe they're in a hurry when they're there the first time, but wouldn't there be a long term payoff? Like "hey, now that we have this suspect, we can compare prints. Oh look, they match. Boy am I glad we took the finger prints." instead of "Hey we have a suspect. Hey, suspect, did you break into the house? we don't have fingerprints to check with yours." Suspect: "no." Cop: "darn, we have to let you go then since we don't have any evidence." 0 -
OK, thanks for the replies, this makes sense.
*A lot of time and trouble
*Little chance of making a match
*Serious fingerprint work is reserved for serious crimes such as murder
I guess I have watched too many tv shows, the cops lift a print from a doorknob following the burglary, they put the print into the computer, it comes back a match, an hour later the SWAT team takes the guy down, he was already wanted for murder, the stolen property is returned blah blah blah
Only in Hollywood I guess.0 -
quote:Originally posted by allen griggs
OK, thanks for the replies, this makes sense.
*A lot of time and trouble
*Little chance of making a match
I guess I have watched too many tv shows, the cops lift a print from a doorknob following the burglary, they put the print into the computer, it comes back a match, an hour later the SWAT team takes the guy down, he was already wanted for murder, the stolen property is returned blah blah blah
Only in Hollywood I guess.
The reason I had for talking to the evidence tech is my work van was broken into, a neighbor got a plate# the print was just more evidence against the perp. If you can get them to take prints, you are ahead a little, it means more evidence to help get a conviction, in case they do come up with suspects.
Don0 -
By the way, in large part due to all these burglaries in Atlanta, we sold that house, and with the money bought TWO nice suburban brick houses in Asheville.
Let me just say, there are no "low income" neighborhoods nearby.
In five years have not had a crime in Asheville.
Atlanta can stew in its own juices, screw 'em.0 -
Besides above info, have you considered HOW MANY prints there already are in/on your house??? They last a LOOOOOONG time if not disturbed. Jewelry store employees are always spritzing and wiping down the glass showcases- not just to be neat, but so that any prints on the glass case are current. Worked a theft of a miltary radio from a staff car- found a print on the mount. Turned out to be the guy that installed the mount 2 years before, 3 states away. 0 -
I got broken into back in 86, police came out ...one guy, took the report, then got his "john police offer crime kit" out and took finger prints (bhale187 is right BIG mess). I asked when will they get the results back. "OH we don't turn them in, don't have the money or computer to do it"! They just keep them for abit, hoping to catch some guy and then look at them (prints) to try to tie the thief into other crime sites! ...Got one rifle back in 97, some clown pawned it for some cash, pawn shop only looked at the hot sheet when he tried to get the rifle back ...and after they got his money to un-pawn it. Cops "called" him, and asked him to come down to the station ...never showed. .OR did they go get him ...figured he was just the dimwit that bough the rifle off the thief.
My view ...cops don't down nothing till the thief jumps into their arms! Sure not like what you see on TV Huh!??0 -
When I lived in High Point, NC in 1970 somebody tried to come into my house through a living room window. I think he scared himself off with the noise he made ripping the screen off.
The cop who came out took prints off the window seal, screen frame and window. I know this was thirty-seven years ago, and maybe he just did it to impress me, but I would think prints would be more useful now than they were back then.0 -
Hopefully the next time the scum rob someone they will get popped by a good neighbor with a shotgun. That will stop that fingerprint data file dead in its tracks. It will also assure the scum never robs again. 0 -
When I use to work for a small town PD I would always tell the victim straight out...I can dust for prints, but it makes a terrible mess, and unless we get extremely lucky it's going to be a waste of time. Nearly everyone would ask for the dusting, and bitch after they saw the mess. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by bpost1958
Hopefully the next time the scum rob someone they will get popped by a good neighbor with a shotgun. That will stop that fingerprint data file dead in its tracks. It will also assure the scum never robs again.
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quote:Originally posted by bhale187
When I use to work for a small town PD I would always tell the victim straight out...I can dust for prints, but it makes a terrible mess, and unless we get extremely lucky it's going to be a waste of time. Nearly everyone would ask for the dusting, and bitch after they saw the mess.
How true! The powder particles are so fine that they float all over the place. It doesn't just get on the item you are dusting, but everything within a four foot radius.0 -
Allen,
In my mind, evidence is evidence. If not collected properly it is lost forever. Lots of fine officers have lifted prints off things that were difficult to do, made very little mess and saw their long-shot cases come together because of it. At least at the point-of-entry, I can see little reason why it shouldn't be done.
We did once get black powder on a blonde wood piano that never came clean... $$0 -
i had my car vandalized a few years ago. when the officers arrived to take the report, i asked if they were going to print the car. they answered me with a flat no and told me that they only do that for real crimes(read felonies). 0 -
I put a lot of crooks in prison by taking prints from inside crime scenes. We had all prints scanned into computers by the crime lab, and went to court many a time just to say "Yeah I lifted those prints from...." Bingo plead guilty.
I do not understand why today all police agencies, with all the Homeland Security money floating around, do not have the equipment, nor the money to digitally process latent prints. It is truly worthwhile and takes a lot of crooks off the streets. Learning how to lift prints with the magic fairy dust, is easy, only messy if you are sloppy, and puts crooks in prison.
Short story. Got subpoena to go to court on a robbery of 7-11 store. Picked up evidence and went to court. Crook was loudly telling all his friends that he had never been to Lakeside, and did not even know where it was (he was from southeast San Diego). During a break in court the defense attorney came up to me and asked who I was. I told him and he asked why I was there. I told him that I responded to take the report of the robbery and lifted prints from the underside of the cash register tray.
He went from smiles to grim in one second. He took his client aside and when court went back in session he had his client change his plea to guilty. I didn't even testify.
The power of prints.0 -
"Besides above info, have you considered HOW MANY prints there already are in/on your house??? They last a LOOOOOONG time if not disturbed. Jewelry store employees are always spritzing and wiping down the glass showcases- not just to be neat, but so that any prints on the glass case are current."
That is very interesting. I have noticed that the jewelry stores always have glass 3 sides display cases.
So, they keep that glass spotlessly clean so when they get robbed there will only be fresh prints on it.
That is pretty smart. I imagine that glass is a good surface to lift prints from.0 -
I had a tool trailer broke into once, rear end went out in my truck, had to get my buddies truck the next morning to haul it home. I wrote down the license numbers of the crew that was working there. they watched closely as I loaded it up. No real reason to be that nosy about what goes in a trailer. Next morning when the cops showed up. one of them took out a little dusting kit and dusted the doors where they broke in.I gave em the license numbers . Never heard from them again . Detective wrote me a letter 90 days later saying my case has been dropped. Small stuff they dont bother with I dont think 0
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