Gun Show 'Stealer 'Hawk'
Recently at a gun show, and watched a guy keep hanging around inside the enterance looking for quality steals on desireable guns.
Literally followed attendees down isles.
Would interupt...yes, butt in on converstations to work his deal.
One dealer who had a sellers gun in hand was talking to the seller, and the 'stealer hawk' stuck money out at the seller, and took the sale away from the dealer.
Some dealers who must of known the 'stealer hawk' started to openly talk about him, and watch him. He then went outside looking for guns in the parking lot!
IMHO, he should be told to stop, if he doesn't stop....be thrown out, and maybe bannned if he keesp it up.
Literally followed attendees down isles.
Would interupt...yes, butt in on converstations to work his deal.
One dealer who had a sellers gun in hand was talking to the seller, and the 'stealer hawk' stuck money out at the seller, and took the sale away from the dealer.
Some dealers who must of known the 'stealer hawk' started to openly talk about him, and watch him. He then went outside looking for guns in the parking lot!
IMHO, he should be told to stop, if he doesn't stop....be thrown out, and maybe bannned if he keesp it up.
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My .02, it boils down to common decency and manners, both of which some people are lacking nowadays. Yes, I think you should wait til a guy talking to someone about the item he has is finished before you make your offer to look/buy.
Some of the previous posters would have us believe they have never offered money to an individual walking thru the show for whatever it was they had slung over their shoulder.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Captplaid
As an innocent bystander I see both points.
Yes, it's wrong for Mr. Dealer wanna-be to do business in the isle. Get a booth.
Yes, it is acceptable for John Q. Public to make an offer.
I think wandering the isles has also been suggested and recommended here at GB's forums for the guy looking to sell one gun. Now I understand why.
Thanks for the education.
Captplaid,
The point is not about the aisle deals, or the FTF, the point is about the guys who stand at the door making offers.
If you want to walk the floor, hang a sign with what your selling and walk the show, don't sell to the guy standing at the door making offers, walk it around, the odds are you will get a better offer, maybe not from a dealer, but I bet it will be better than the guy at the door.
Hiball, so all dealers steal? LOL, put your tinfoil hat back on. Nobody said anyone had to buy & sell with the dealer only, the discussion is about the guys who ambush sellers coming in the door,
Hell, I have seen guys buy at the door, then walk it around to the dealers to turn a buck! Most dealers are in it because they like firearms, there is more money in other retail endeavors. And if you ever bought a used firearm in a shop, you can bet your azz the dealer paid less than he is selling it to you for, just like any commodity, you buy low sell high, or do you work for free? if that is the case, I need some yard work done.
Don0 -
quote:Originally posted by dongizmo
quote:Originally posted by Captplaid
As an innocent bystander I see both points.
Yes, it's wrong for Mr. Dealer wanna-be to do business in the isle. Get a booth.
Yes, it is acceptable for John Q. Public to make an offer.
I think wandering the isles has also been suggested and recommended here at GB's forums for the guy looking to sell one gun. Now I understand why.
Thanks for the education.
Captplaid,
The point is not about the aisle deals, or the FTF, the point is about the guys who stand at the door making offers.
If you want to walk the floor, hang a sign with what your selling and walk the show, don't sell to the guy standing at the door making offers, walk it around, the odds are you will get a better offer, maybe not from a dealer, but I bet it will be better than the guy at the door.
Hiball, so all dealers steal? LOL, put your tinfoil hat back on. Nobody said anyone had to buy & sell with the dealer only, the discussion is about the guys who ambush sellers coming in the door,
Hell, I have seen guys buy at the door, then walk it around to the dealers to turn a buck! Most dealers are in it because they like firearms, there is more money in other retail endeavors. And if you ever bought a used firearm in a shop, you can bet your azz the dealer paid less than he is selling it to you for, just like any commodity, you buy low sell high, or do you work for free? if that is the case, I need some yard work done.
Don
Yes, I totally agree with you. So, the other guy does work the isles for resale and sees no problem with it?
Again, thanks for the education. This thread has been about as educational as one about how pawn shops operate.
Thanks.
I also don't understand why someone would see being a "stealer hawk" as being acceptable.0 -
quote:Hiball, so all dealers steal? LOL, put your tinfoil hat back on
This is what caused my statement;
quote:Guns & Glass Posted -
Recently at a gun show, and watched a guy keep hanging around inside the enterance looking for quality quote:steals on desireable guns
To whichI replied;
quote:There is the crux of the matter...the only people allowed to steal being the dealers, I assume...
The tinfoil hat belongs on YOUR side of the isle, appears to me..
I believe that a code of ethics OUGHT to be applied to gun dealing...same as life. You don't interrupt people in the middle of their deals...even tho I have stood by in silent agony as a dealer offered 200 bucks for a Remington Rand .45 and holster..perfect pieces...carried by the old vet in the war, ACCORDING TO HIM...and on the dealers table for 1100 bucks, two hours later....
But I damn well would have tried to buy that gun the INSTANT the pilgrim took it back and took one step away from the dealers table...same as I will buy a gun off the back of ANY pilgram wandering the isles..or in the parking lot.
My guns that I buy are NOT FOR SALE...except for trading for upgraded pieces....
Most dealers I know today have little interest in guns...they just as well be selling potatoes. Afraid to trade..because they do not know the value of the pieces they handle...so they offer nothing for a trade in.
Sure...dealers need a profit. The only question being...how much ? In a free market, that problem takes care of itself. Under Capitalism (Big Business and Big Goverment scratching each others back) there is now a Monopoly...and guns prices continue to escalate.0 -
quote:even tho I have stood by in silent agony as a dealer offered 200 bucks for a Remington Rand .45 and holster..perfect pieces...carried by the old vet in the war, ACCORDING TO HIM...and on the dealers table for 1100 bucks, two hours later....
I had a somewhat similar deal in Birmingham earlier in the year. I stood at a dealer table, checking out his stuff and watched/overheard a man sell the dealer a cherry Glock 17 Gen 2 for less than $200. I waited till the "seller" collected his money and walked off, then offered the dealer $300 for the gun-a very nice profit and also a pretty reasonable offer. His reply was gruff to say the least, but the gist was the price was $450 and as he put it "that haggle oatmeal is useless on me"... I wont forget his face...will never check his table again and will have friends avoid him as well.
Shane
EDIT: LOL, it subbed "oatmeal" for the substance coming from a bull's arse0 -
quote:Originally posted by Highball
quote:Hiball, so all dealers steal? LOL, put your tinfoil hat back on
This is what caused my statement;
quote:Guns & Glass Posted -
Recently at a gun show, and watched a guy keep hanging around inside the enterance looking for quality quote:steals on desireable guns
To whichI replied;
quote:There is the crux of the matter...the only people allowed to steal being the dealers, I assume...
The tinfoil hat belongs on YOUR side of the isle, appears to me..
I believe that a code of ethics OUGHT to be applied to gun dealing...same as life. You don't interrupt people in the middle of their deals...even tho I have stood by in silent agony as a dealer offered 200 bucks for a Remington Rand .45 and holster..perfect pieces...carried by the old vet in the war, ACCORDING TO HIM...and on the dealers table for 1100 bucks, two hours later....
But I damn well would have tried to buy that gun the INSTANT the pilgrim took it back and took one step away from the dealers table...same as I will buy a gun off the back of ANY pilgram wandering the isles..or in the parking lot.
My guns that I buy are NOT FOR SALE...except for trading for upgraded pieces....
Most dealers I know today have little interest in guns...they just as well be selling potatoes. Afraid to trade..because they do not know the value of the pieces they handle...so they offer nothing for a trade in.
Sure...dealers need a profit. The only question being...how much ? In a free market, that problem takes care of itself. Under Capitalism (Big Business and Big Goverment scratching each others back) there is now a Monopoly...and guns prices continue to escalate.
HB,
As I stated, it is not the aisle or snack bar deals, it is the ambush buyers waiting at the door. Sure there are unscruplus dealers, but then again, if you bought that RR for $200, would you sell it for $250?
A free market? you have to be kidding me, what would that have to do with a transaction like this (used firearm)? Nobody has said you have to sell to a dealer or buy from a dealer. (well, except in CA maybe) And a dealer is lucky to make a 30% return on a new firearm, now figure in his or her time, and expenses, how much is profit that the dealer can put in his (or her) pocket? 5%? Maybe? Would you work for a return like this?
If you are not happy with the quality of dealers in your area, perhaps you should take the plunge, and get a license, and try your hand in the business.
Don0 -
quote:A free market? you have to be kidding me, what would that have to do with a transaction like this (used firearm)? Nobody has said you have to sell to a dealer or buy from a dealer. (well, except in CA
Well...okay. Then this entire thread is much ado about nothing, if nobody says I have to sell to a dealer..OR buy from one.
I fail to see where I am standing being a factor in that decision.
And...by the way...I see FAR more dealers clustered around the front doors then I do individuals.
Kinda like shad around a light at night, is what I reflect upon.
And...no thank you...I refuse to participate in such a blatently UnConstitutional muck-up such as getting a FL.....0 -
quote:Originally posted by chuck
I took a Revolver to a gun show one time to sell, the dealer's offered such a low price that I took it back to my truck and brought it back home.
you shoulda carried it around for a bit, to see if any other attendee wanted to make an offer.0 -
I know dealers who hang around the door too! This is a free country. Quit your whining! 0 -
Obvious to me that the "Stealer Hawk" Guns and Glass mentions is a first class jerk. I have seen him and his relatives at a number of shows. Probably should have complained to the promoter, not here on the board to get real results.
I am reaching the point where I go to gunshows to visit with Matwor and Wundudnee. Otherwise it is paying $10 for the priviledge of looking at over priced junk while the dealers trade among themselves.
I don't go looking to steal, I go looking for fair prices on older items, hoping for greater variety then the local shops. Fair prices seem to be getting harder to find.0 -
quote:Originally posted by He Dog
Obvious to me that the "Stealer Hawk" Guns and Glass mentions is a first class jerk. I have seen him and his relatives at a number of shows. Probably should have complained to the promoter, not here on the board to get real results.
I am reaching the point where I go to gunshows to visit with Matwor and Wundudnee. Otherwise it is paying $10 for the priviledge of looking at over priced junk while the dealers trade among themselves.
I don't go looking to steal, I go looking for fair prices on older items, hoping for greater variety then the local shops. Fair prices seem to be getting harder to find.
Damnital, I agree with the man. Bet that never happens again. Don0 -
Happens every time we discuss Mateo or several other members here. Stick with Matwor and Wundudnee they are the best, and Wundudnee buys stuff and you can watch. fun and cheap! We gonna picnic again in Tulsa in April, come on down.[^] 0 -
quote:Stick with Matwor and Wundudnee
I agree with Scott...but, who is matwor..?0 -
quote:We gonna picnic again in Tulsa in April
Where..do'in what...0 -
Matwor, read up the thread. Tulsa Gun Show in April. A sometimes annual get together for a few of us. 0 -
quote:Obvious to me that the "Stealer Hawk" Guns and Glass mentions is a first class jerk. I have seen him and his relatives at a number of shows. So the individual looking to scarf up a deal before the dealers get it is a "First Class Jerk"...Okay...I will acept that I Am whatever you think I am. So Be It.
quote:Otherwise it is paying $10 for the priviledge of looking at over priced junk while the dealers trade among themselves.
Gosh..I am SOOO confused. Here we are complaining about overpriced DEALERS, now...and in spite of the complaining from the dealers...THEY get 90 percent of the 'deals' out there...wonder why the items are 'overpriced'...hmmmmmm
quote:I don't go looking to steal, I go looking for fair prices on older items, hoping for greater variety then the local shops. Fair prices seem to be getting harder to find. That is ALL some of us look for...and "Fair prices" you AIN'T gonna get from a dealer....All that overhead, you know....0 -
quote:Originally posted by Smokin Guns
quote:We gonna picnic again in Tulsa in April
Where..do'in what...
You ought to try to get down here sometime, good gunshow, good company and the road runs clear up to your house.[:)] No kidding, you would see at least one of every gun you've ever heard about and a lot you never have. I tried to not spend any money, but He Dog made me.[;)] Here is a picture from my parking place in April and the rifles I was forced to buy.
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Watched and read alot of complaining about dealers.
What's so different about them as human beings that makes them any more different than any other profession?? There are jerks in every profession, and on every forum all over this world, on both sides of the tables.
Appears to me that many of the bitterest complainers, and some of the more vigilant, and vocal responders who defend the 'freedom to hang around the door", and who who have defend "stealer hawks" have some issues fueling their fire, and are not happy with many dealers at shows. Perhaps it's because they want it cheap for noithing also.
I would venture to guess that 99% of them don't have their money in their business, and couldn't run a sucessful business.
Remember I wrote SOME, so if anyone reading this feels the heat from what I wrote, of course I'm not talking about you.
Have been on the manufacturing side, dealer side, distributor side, and a gun show attendee also looking to buy. That means on both sides of the table besides supporting it.
Too many people just have NO IDEA of the true operating costs a business has. I make no excuses for rude, or stealing dealers.
Was talking w/a good dealer at a show, and decided to try a little test showing actual costs just to attend a show. Next show I made a poster chart putting it on the wall behind the tables.
WELCOME! Happy to see some of you....again.
Thought you'd like to see what it cost me just to be here with you.
Tables= $200.00
Fuel= $ 49.48
Tolls= $ 6.90
Hotel= $142.40
Total= $ 398.78
Additional Unseen Expenses
Business mortgage cost
Taxes
Electricity
Auto insurance
Liability insurance
Building-inventory insurance
Vehicle maintenance
Depreciation
Office-shop furniture
Inventory cost
Office supplies
Salary
I'm happy to see you here , and very Thankful when you buy/trade with me, and sometimes when I can buy from you.
Note the last item on the list.
Funny thing about the sign, quite a few people after reading the poster commented, "they never thought of what it cost....just to display at a show, nor did they realize how important is too make a fair profit....so dealers.....keep coming back.
Was watching on the Discovery Channel how dangerous it is to work on & own a king crab ship. No longer do I complain about the price of King crab, and salmon, especially since I've been in Alaska, the North Pole, like my wife's car, and my GMC Dura Max to run, comphewter to work, like good service when we eat out, I have come to enjoy paying a fair market price for services, and goods, and knowing that I have a part in helping someone else, somewhere, being able to also make a living.0 -
20 years ago, we had nice gun shows...about 25 % of the tables were stocking dealers selling overstocked merchandise...staffed by 'not regulerly seen behind the counter guys'...
The rest were individuals selling, trading, and talking about hunting, shooting, and gunlaws.
Mostly people that were swapping 'this' for 'that'...nobody was killing anybody with 'profit'...and the few that did made few trades or sales.
Today 95 % of the tables are dealers...out for a killing. I really give a rats patoot about your overhead..stay home in yor little shop and keep expenses down suits me fine.
The dealers have what they have been wanting for many years...individuals scared to death of the jack-booted thugs...too scared to set up at the gun shows...too scared to trade with another citizen, many of them...
Having other citizens advocating "Call the BATF" because some guy is "Srlling guns out of his trunk"...gag a maggot.
None of any of you have ever read the Second Amendment. I may not have the guts to 'break the law'...but I damn sure ain't calling in the storm troopers on somebody selling a gun....or buying it0 -
quote: Was watching on the Discovery Channel how dangerous it is to work on & own a king crab ship. No longer do I complain about the price of King crab, and salmon, especially since I've been in Alaska,
Haha I worked on those boats from Oregon to Alaska. Trolled for Salmon, long lined for Halibut, and worked pots. When I see the price of seafood it sickens me. [:o)]
About gun dealers and such, sorry to the dealers but I've met strickly jackasses lately besides one gunsmith thats been good people and realized I'm not out to get him. I quit going to gun shows.0 -
Hey, Smokin guns, matwor here, nice to meet ya. He Dog has just about nailed it. 'Bout the only thing to look forward to at the gunshows anymore is the comradarie, (and Scottys spam)[;)][:p]. Come on down in April, I'll be sure to bring lawn chairs this time. 0 -
wow what a heated topic.
i personally have only ever been to two gun shows in my life. both times it was an enjoyful experience for me.
now, as i see the original posting and gun and glass's subsequent post, what i have read isn't the fact of gun dealers mark ups on prices, guys at the door haggling for a deal, or the jerky boy and his auntie purse lady baitin for bass to bite.
what i see the complaint to be, and it is a very legitimate complaint, is the fact that this guy, and many like him, don't just make an offer and "steal" a deal from a dealer. it's the way he did it is the problem. the guy seemed to basically jump in front of the dealer who was in the process of talking to a potential seller and rudely interupted to make a counter offer. it was the guys complete lack of decorum and consideration that is at issue. if it were once due to over eagerness, i'd be mad but accepting of the behavior once. but it seems this guy has a history of this kind of rude behavior. at this i would have to say that if it is possible to do, banning him from future shows might be an option. by reporting him to the promotor and other necessary individuals, posting his picture and name at the entrances for the people working the ticket boothes readily identify him as a nuisance and have security personel escort him outside. as most venues are held in public place owned by either an individual or company on their property a proper complaint can have him legally banned from the premises.
i hate to sound drastic, as i think everyone who wants to be there have the right, but don't be an ash hole. i paid like you did to be there. i didn't interrupt you taking a leak in the toilet, don't interrupt me talking to someone about my business. wait until i am finished please. civility would always be welcome.0 -
Wow you guys are funny.
Lets see if I have this right.
Dealers want all the good deals so they can jack the prices so high that they seem to be overpriced by almost everyone. Dealers dont like anyone getting a good deal beacuse they have overhead. Seems like the point of this thread is "boo hoo he sold that gun to the hawk now I cant put it on my table at 4X what I would have paid for it"
Buyers know you need to make a profit to stay in business. The problem seems to be not with the "hawk" because if he was doing something wrong the people running the shows would stop him. So if you have a compliant take it up with the guys running the show, see what they have to say.
From where I stand the prices seem wildly high on most things. I saw stuff at the Tulsa show that was used and dealers were asking more than new price. Now dont go and tell me they have so much $$ tied up in that item that they have to,(we all know the dealers lowball to make a profit) it is because they think the people coming to gun shows will buy it because they are told it is a good buy.
Just like the store owner or the guy with a table at a show my money is valuable, I will spend it for what I can get.
If my looking for a good deal hurts your business oh well just be glad I dont do it very often.0 -
I have seen bad manners on both sides of the table. One way to avoid some low ball offers is to put a sign on the item for sale. Let everyone know what you want for the item. They will let you know if they are interested. 0 -
quote:So the individual looking to scarf up a deal before the dealers get it is a "First Class Jerk"...
Well Highball, it that shoe fits you willl have to wear it, but I did not put it there. I was refering specifically to this:
quote:One dealer who had a sellers gun in hand was talking to the seller, and the 'stealer hawk' stuck money out at the seller, and took the sale away from the dealer.
Is that you? Then Jerk will work, if not, you are just a guy looking for a deal, maybe a little harder than the rest of us. I am usually just looking for a fair price, and a deal if I can get one, but I am unwilling to be rude to get it. Just the way I was raised.
Smokin Gun, come join us in April, Wundudnee is gonna give shopping lessons this year...0 -
From what I have seen lately at gun shows, the dealers there that have tables are some of the biggest rip off artists. So I say more power to anybody who tries to gain an edge and save money 0 -
quote:Originally posted by EhlerDave
Wow you guys are funny.
Lets see if I have this right.
Dealers want all the good deals so they can jack the prices so high that they seem to be overpriced by almost everyone. Dealers dont like anyone getting a good deal beacuse they have overhead. Seems like the point of this thread is "boo hoo he sold that gun to the hawk now I cant put it on my table at 4X what I would have paid for it"
Buyers know you need to make a profit to stay in business. The problem seems to be not with the "hawk" because if he was doing something wrong the people running the shows would stop him. So if you have a compliant take it up with the guys running the show, see what they have to say.
From where I stand the prices seem wildly high on most things. I saw stuff at the Tulsa show that was used and dealers were asking more than new price. Now dont go and tell me they have so much $$ tied up in that item that they have to,(we all know the dealers lowball to make a profit) it is because they think the people coming to gun shows will buy it because they are told it is a good buy.
Just like the store owner or the guy with a table at a show my money is valuable, I will spend it for what I can get.
If my looking for a good deal hurts your business oh well just be glad I dont do it very often.
+10 -
+1 Again for that last statement. Like the guy said everybody understands dealers need money. But you cant charge outrageous prices because of your own personal problems, so sad you choose to be a dealer, if its such a problem get out of it. I got into an arguement with a dealer at a show once. I asked him why his gun was X-amount money more than the same gun at Gander Mountain. He replied because they have buying power. So I came back with "So I should pay $6 bucks to get into your show walk around with a bunch of red necks and pay more for your gun?" He shut up real quick. I'll pay the same price at the store than have to browse through junk, wait in line, and top of that pay for the whole experience. Actually a small time gun dealer shouldnt have the overhead of a big time store. 0 -
he paid to go to the show too, he is not allowed to buy a gun b/c some of the dealers are crybabies?[:X] 0 -
He Dog;
As stated by me several dozen posts back...manners serve well...on gun trades or life.
Jumping into the middle of others' deals is grounds for a bruising..far as I am concerned.
Herding a pilgrim into a corner before he gets to the dealers is just tough nuts for the dealer.0
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