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Cad Program;

Highball
Anyone using an inexpensive program that works ?

I have a small machine shop, and am tired of scratching on the back of envelopes all the 'grand ideas' I have.
My talents with paper and pencil leave much to be desired...but I don't really want to spend a couple grand on a program, either.
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Comments

40 comments

Date Votes
  • spryor
    I had a free prog on my old comp. that did things in 3D, and would give three different views...can't remember the name of it offhand, maybe someone else will, or i'll think of it.
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  • spryor
    Found a lot on google, and could find more with various other search words.


    http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=t&ie=UTF-8&rls=SUNA,SUNA:2006-34,SUNA:en&q=3D+drawing+autocad

    "Free autocad"

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=SUNA,SUNA:2006-34,SUNA:en&q=free+autocad
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  • Permanently deleted user
    I use Autocad lite, I think it is like $700
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  • Odawgp
    I use AutoCAd 2003,05,07,08 and Revit building 2008 everyday.

    mainly for architectural design and structural coordination haven't done to many machine shop draws.
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  • Highball
    Thanks, Spryor;
    Those 'free' downloads...what is the hook ? What is the chance of downloading a fatal virus along with the goody ?

    Nutfinn;
    We had a Cad program at work...something like 30 grand..this CadLight just a bare bones program ?
    I see jillions of programs, seems like...was trying to pick minds and find something that wouldn't require two weeks to learn to draw a straight line.
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  • Permanently deleted user
    I really do not know, what I do with it is just fine, but it is not much.
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  • dongizmo
    Did you check over at the RCM board?
    http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/search?q=autocad&
    Don
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  • Highball
    Jeeze...I am guilty of tunnel vision. I have so much trouble finding anything on the net...I just have learned to respect the varied and wide experience of Gun Broker people.
    Never occured to me to actually branch out to someplace that deals with such right along.
    Thanks.
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  • dcon12
    quote:Originally posted by Highball
    Jeeze...I am guilty of tunnel vision. I have so much trouble finding anything on the net...I just have learned to respect the varied and wide experience of Gun Broker people.
    Never occured to me to actually branch out to someplace that deals with such right along.
    Thanks.


    Its that damned second amendment stuck in your craw. Don
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  • dongizmo
    quote:Originally posted by Highball
    Jeeze...I am guilty of tunnel vision. I have so much trouble finding anything on the net...I just have learned to respect the varied and wide experience of Gun Broker people.
    Never occured to me to actually branch out to someplace that deals with such right along.
    Thanks.

    HB,
    I have been teaching the upper echelon at work how close the gunsmith/machinist trades are, they are (were) a little surprised
    at the results[:0][:D]
    Don
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  • Highball
    My opinion is that a gunsmith NEEDS to work to closer tolerances then the typical machinist.

    Chambering, threading barrels... '.0000' is a good number to shoot for. Not, perhaps achievable...but one ought to strive for it...at least setting up a rifle.
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  • shoff14
    quote:Originally posted by Highball
    My opinion is that a gunsmith NEEDS to work to closer tolerances then the typical machinist.



    Depends on what your making and in reality the more places after the decimal the more expensive the part. The idea is to put yourself in a position to make the part to the nominal dimension.

    Anyways, you can find older versions of autocad on ebay for a reasonable price, under $100. There is also Bobcad which is about $300 for just the CAD software and about $1000 for the whole CAD/CAM package. I haven't used Bobcad, but there is a following, I won't say if its good or not. I like Solidworks, easy to learn, cheap, and has always did everything I wanted it to do.

    There really aren't many good CAD programs out there, in 2D you have Autocad and then the rest. Then in 3D there are about 5 contenders and everyone else is a wisher. All of this software is pretty pricey though.
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  • woodmaster9
    Highball,
    I have used Autosketch by Autodesk for years. (same people as AutoCad.) Its about 150, I think. It is awesome. Drawings can be exported to regular autocad format and some others. You can do isometrics and scale drawings. It is easy to learn and very quick to use and figure out once you grasp the basics. One drawback is that it does not do 3d, only 2d.
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  • Highball
    quote:Its that damned second amendment stuck in your craw. Don
    I absolutely..resemble that remark.

    Contrary to popular opinion, I HAVE been know to tell a joke...on occasion. Why, it was back in...ummm '96..no..'94..I had 'em rolling on the floor with my light banter.

    Now..where were we ? Oh..ya...
    Autosketch. Is it what I call 'intuitive'..? A word that has no meaning to the typical programmer geek putting these programs together...but meaning it follows some sort of coherrent process to get where you want to go ?

    As for buying old programs of AutoCad...any problem with what they call "Pirating' by doing that ?
    Scuse the total ignorance on the subject.
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  • woodmaster9
    I have used (or tried to) autocad, autocad LT, and Microsoft Visio.

    The Microsoft Visio product is somewhat easy to use but not really geared toward "drafting" type work. It's more for business diagrams like flow charts, etc. Plus it costs close to $1000.00

    Autosketch is by far easier than all of them. With autocad, you almost need to go to training...
    Autosketch is 120 bucks from Amazon.com

    http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=4452477

    http://www.amazon.com/Autodesk-00309-051408-9000-AutoSketch-9/dp/B0002MAG0A/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-8473878-7104803?ie=UTF8&s=software&qid=1189137008&sr=8-1
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  • shoff14
    quote:Originally posted by Highball

    As for buying old programs of AutoCad...any problem with what they call "Pirating' by doing that ?
    Scuse the total ignorance on the subject.



    Not at all as long as the program hasn't been copied. I wouldn't have problem purchasing a legit copy. Most versions that sell for a better price are from 2003,2002,2000 and then it was called Mechanical desktop and versions go from 1-14. In my mind, versions 13-2005 are almost the same 2D wise, which seems to be what you want. I have used versions 13,14, 2000, and 2004. All of them have the same short cut keys, functions, ect.
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  • shoff14
    quote:Originally posted by woodmaster9


    Autosketch is by far easier than all of them. With autocad, you almost need to go to training... 120 bucks from Amazon.com




    I think anyone can learn autocad if they are willing to do it and read a little. Its really not that hard, its all about drawing lines. I have worked with a lot of hard software, autocad is not one of them.
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  • Highball
    Now I have a couple direction to look...thanks tons, gentlemen..I am off to look up some prices on auction.
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  • woodmaster9
    Autocad is very complicated. It's a lot more than just drawing lines. It's about angles, arcs, circles, planes, curves, screw threads, layers, precise lengths. It takes much more than just a "little reading" to master this program. I'm sure it can be learned by self study, but it take time and will lead to frustration for someone who thinks they can install the program and start drawing.

    On the other hand, with Autosketch, one can do just that. Load the program and start drawing. You can create quick "napkin sketches" immediately and you can do scale drawings with a little reading. Unfortunately it, too, is more complicated than it used to be. That's the price of upgrades/improvements and added features.
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  • iceracerx
    No matter what program you end using, it is NEVER a good idea to SCALE (or measure) off of the DRAWING unless it has been PLOTTED, and even then it can be iffy. Common printers / plotters can stretch the drawing which will render it useless to measure. Run it through a copier and you will never know what you will end up with.

    Also, most CAD systems have a built in TOLERANCE which makes it challenging to hold the tight tolerances you mentioned.

    You might be further ahead with your "napkin" drawings. I use small YELLOW pads of paper from Office Max around my "shop" to solve that problem. Easy to spot and quick to use.

    When I'm at work, I use one of the two most expensive CAD systems available, and even they have a built in tolerance that drives us buggy.

    X1
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  • Cubslover
    I used to use AutoCAD 4 in corelation with MasterCAM in a machine shop.

    Design your 3D part in AutoCAD, then send it to MasterCAM and it will write the CNC Program for your part. Used to do that stuff for a living. If I was offered a job doing it again, I'd take it in a heartbeat.
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  • shoff14
    quote:Originally posted by iceracerx


    When I'm at work, I use one of the two most expensive CAD systems available, and even they have a built in tolerance that drives us buggy.




    Why not just chance the tolerance options? [:D] Or is it one of those things were the new guy gets 50 drawings out before someone realizes that he has been using 4 decimal places for everything and your PO's are coming back twice as expensive as they should be. [:D]

    I know that with AutoCad, Solidworks, and ProE that you can set the decimal as an option at start up.
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  • iceracerx
    shoff14, I wasn't talking about a Drawing Tolerance, I was referring to the math tolerance built into the Modeling side of our wazoo MAINFRAME CAD system. All the CAD programs you mentioned are PC based. As nice as they are, they don't have the math storage that a MAINFRAME system does.

    This is the reason that we build parts to the PRINT and NOT the model.

    There have been some major strides in CNC machining, but I believe that KIMBER and the like tweak the parts at the machine to get their FITS and not at the CAD model.

    But after only 35 years in the business, I'll have to defer to someone with more experience / knowledge.
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  • shoff14
    Iceracerx,

    I see what your talking about now. [:D] I have no experience with mainframe CAD systems. The closest that I have experience with would be ProE. Whats the purpose of having mathematical models that perfect? My guess is you must be into nano stuff or maybe molds, thats the only thing I can think of that would need something to be "perfect".
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  • iceracerx
    A large portion of the Math is used to run FEA (Finite Element Analysis) programs that reveal stress risers and other design flaws. We also run CFD programs to Analyse flow characteristics of cooling and lubrication systems. Thus, we can get close to an optimum cooling core before we go to cast. There is always some fine tuning that occurs while we are doing physical part testing.

    When it comes down to the final product, the parts still have to fit together like they are designed to no matter what system they were designed on.

    Often we still "brain storm" with paper and pencil before we fire up the CAD system. I still think that is the fastest way to get an idea "down" before it disappears, esp for a gunsmith.
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  • iceracerx
    A "stress riser" is nothing more then an area of concentrated stress.

    Simply, a stress riser can an area where the fillet is too small to stiffen the joined areas.

    The interesting "thing" about FEA is that is can show part deflection or movement. Then we analysise the stress created by the movement.

    We might all agree that a crank shaft appears rather stout, usually being forged or cast from steel. Yet, using FEA, we can determine where the C/S might fail for a given load. It can save time and money avoiding broken parts.
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  • Highball
    In aircraft work, a stress riser was a bend that was too sharp or not deburred..or even a hole that wasn't deburred properly.
    Over tightening bolts was a problem, esp. in aluminum.

    I will be interested to hear Iceracerx's explanation.
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  • dheffley
    Highball,

    Do you want/need a 2D CAD system or a 3D CAD system. I have a couple that might work for you. Email me.
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  • dheffley
    quote:Originally posted by Highball
    My opinion is that a gunsmith NEEDS to work to closer tolerances then the typical machinist.

    Chambering, threading barrels... '.0000' is a good number to shoot for. Not, perhaps achievable...but one ought to strive for it...at least setting up a rifle.


    A gunsmith needs to be on the machinist level of a tool maker. Most production machinists could not do gunsmithing.
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  • Highball
    Danny;
    Indeed I have long felt that about production machinists. Nothing wrong with that..just different results expected.

    I am glad I brought this subject up for another reason...I had thought that layout and printing the results would aid in machining a part...but I reckon that the accuracy is just not there. I had not clearly recognized the printing problem, either...another degradation.

    I don't know if I need 3D..seems I remember it takes tons of memory ?
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