The NRA's new campaign...
The NRA is pushing a new membership drive. They have made available these dealer packets to encourage new membership. A couple of my wholesalers sent out emails promoting the material. Problem is, I don't think I can in good conscience, encourage folks to join the NRA. From what I've seen over the years, the NRA does more behind the scenes to compromise our rights away than they do to protect them. They have sold the American people out. They do still accomplish some good, but I am beginning to believe that is just a smoke screen to cover up another adgenda. I don't think I'll be able to display their promotional material in our shop.
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Highball- I'm not "turning" anything. I am stating what I believe to be the situation as I see it. There are laws. There will always be laws. I cannot imagine ever being able to do away with all laws unless you overthrow the government and allow anarchy to reign. I'm just being realistic.
But like I said, keep trying.0 -
quote:How about we quit bashing pro gun organizations and start bashing the heads of law enforcement that don't crack down on Real criminals that ultimately are the leading cause of gun control
Most folks with a modicum of intelligence realize that 'criminals' are merely the excuse for more gun control..and the control is ALWAYS directed towards honest citizens.
Whats not to understand ? Somehow some new gun law is going to get the perp to say.."whoops..we do't want to break THAT law"..RIGHHHTTT...
The REASON for 'bashing' so-called "Progun organizations" is the attempt to alert people to the FACTS..that the 'ProGun organization" does NOT call for speedy justice for vicious criminals..just "Project Exile"..speedy justice for Federal Gun Law breakers"...and EVERY FEDERAL GUN LAW IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL !!!
That the NRA has been supporting gun control for 70 YEARS...
Once again..I could accept gun owning anti-guners much better if they woud please stop pretending to support the Second Amendment..when really they are supporting an out-of-control government.0 -
quote:
But, don't forget. You're not supposed to compromise. The Second Amendment is absolute! If the PTB take away our Second Amendment rights, we at least know that we didn't do anything to help them along by joining a group that is only 90% good instead of waiting around for the one that is 100% good
More like about 3-4% good.
quote:SaxonPig
There's really too much in that post to respond to
That explains why you defend an un-intelligible position. Lack of information-refusal to become informed.
quote:SaxonPig:
The point I was trying to make is that if the NRA is as bad as you say, why do the anti-gun politicians despise it so much?
If your enemy is weak, and you continue to act as if they are strong, their support base thinks they are "doing the job". Therefore, your enemy stays weak. It's called a "snowjob". Remember when they picked the absolute worst they had to offer in the last election. They backed John Kerry even thought they wanted the door wide open for Hillary in this election. It's called a "snowjob".
quote:Highball:
Truth is as truth does.
MOST NRA members agree with gun controls..either the background check, or the waiting period, or whatever.
I find THAT position MUCH closer to the position of Shumer/Fiendstein/Kennedy...then the position of those of us supporting the Second.
Trying to turn the facts around to blame an opponent for the things YOU are doing may work with the weak-kneed we are surrounded by..but will NEVER work with anyone with a back-bone.
READ PICKENUP'S POST in it's entirety. Then, if you still defend the NRA as defenders of 2A, you are....A fool.
Highball, your last post....magnificent!0 -
quote:Originally posted by SaxonPig
I have stated my opinion and I see nothing I need to change. You are free to disagree (as I know you do).
It's impossible to refute opinions. That web site bases its commentary on the perspective of people who share your view; the NRA is awful and we need to repeal every single gun law. I can't argue with their opinions any more than I can argue with yours or you can argue with mine.
I am not proud of supporting government intervention because I do not support it. But I do recognize the inevitability of there being laws and the reality that government exists to exercise control and unless we eliminate the government there will be laws. Do you seriously believe there is any chance that Congress will ever agree to simply erase all gun laws? I think this is an exercise in futility and an unreasonable expectation. But don't let me stop you from trying. I wish it would happen but I am sure that it won't.
I don't know why you are getting so angry. You believe what you believe and I believe what I believe. We will simply have to accept the fact that we see this issue differently and leave it at that.
No anger here Saxon. As i've said many times, we are all entitled to our views.
The NRA information is factual, with plenty more to back it up, complete with documented quotes from past NRA executive and official NRA positions. Do a search here on the forums and you will likely find plenty of "direct evidence" from their very own mouths.
My view on the NRA is clear. I am a life member who has become educated to the facts of their actions, not their portrayed image. I do not "hate" them, they simply disgust me with their duplicity. I see that they are incrementally undermining Amendment II, probably in coordination with the fed, with their role being to assist in gaining the acceptance of the gun-owning citizens. They are the perfect tool to continue the gradual sell of further government controls over firearms and their purchase, possession, carry and use.
I further think that they do a very good job in areas outside the battle for Amendment II, such as range development, support/education for hunting rights, firearms training, youth education and many more issues.
Next issue, I am under no illusion that all gun laws will be repealed. A predatory government rarely steps back from positions of control. I do see that continued acceptance of additional infringements (read NRA supported actions) is completely counter-productive, unconstitutional and will lead to the ultimate nightmare scenario...total government control of all things firearm.
I also believe that there will come a day, not with the assistance of the NRA to be sure, that the SCOTUS will be forced to rule on a clear 2A case. My desire is that they will come down on the side of the Constitution. If not, we shall see if there are any men left amongst us.0 -
When I first came to Gun Broker, I had similar beliefs as Saxon. I believed that they might not be perfect, but at least they were accomplishing some good. I did not see the fact that they were actually more of an enemy than a friend. I did not understand how badly they were comprosing our rights away. I was told at that time, that if I stuck around long enough and opened my eyes my position would change. It has. You cannot deny the facts. The truth is blatant. The NRA is a wolf in sheeps clothing.
All I have to say is, gun owners better open their eyes before it's too late. The only way you are going to effect change within the organization is to hit them in the pocket book and DEMAND it.
I would give the same advice that was given to me when I first came to GB. "Stick around, open your eyes, and your position will change."0 -
And here is the thread where my schooling began.
Highball began the process that opened my eyes to the truth with regards to the NRA:
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=71742&SearchTerms=NRA
And here is another pertinent thread to this discussion. This one took place a while after I started to really look at the NRA:
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=87006&SearchTerms=NRA
...and here's Higball's quote that got the ball rolling:
quote:"You are new here,ECC..and its obvious you haven't taken the time to educate yourself about the nra.
They have been working FOR gun control for 70 years..easing it up your rump a little at a time..carefully judging how much you will stand for THIS year.
Perhaps some one interested enough to educate you and all the newbies here might go back and call up Josey1's excellent post on the subject..or you might just take the time to look over some alternate site's dealing with pro-gun stuff..you will find that people REALLY interested in stopping gun control have very little to do with NRA anymore..reconizing that ' compromise' is a real dirty word,when it comes to a RIGHT."0 -
ECC;
THANK YOU, Sir;
ALL the slings and arrows mean NOTHING against a good man studying the situation and coming to his OWN conclusion...in SPITE of a lifetime of beliving something else.
Resisting the pressures from the status que is TOUGH..and will get tougher.
The post above is from a BIG man..able to admit errors..and willing to do what is neccessary to correct them.
Thanks from the bottom of my being.0 -
quote:If the NRA wants to hire and keep good executives they have to pay competitive salaries.
Competitive to who? Follow the money, as the saying goes. Precisely why they compromise! Don't compromise and you're out of a job. I've heard a lot of excuses why they never challenge the 2nd Amendment infringements in the Supreme Court, but I haven't seen one yet that could hold water. But hell.....if I was making that kind of income, I wouldn't "compromise" my job either. Those paid for African safari's would be a sweet deal too.
GOA is where my support goes, NO COMPROMISE!0 -
You all use the term "compromise" a lot. Here is the definition of the word:
com?pro?mise /#712;k#594;mpr#601;#716;ma#618;z/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[kom-pruh-mahyz] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, -mised, -mis?ing.
-noun 1. a settlement of differences by mutual concessions; an agreement reached by adjustment of conflicting or opposing claims, principles, etc., by reciprocal modification of demands.
2. the result of such a settlement.
3. something intermediate between different things: The split-level is a compromise between a ranch house and a multistoried house.
4. an endangering, esp. of reputation; exposure to danger, suspicion, etc.: a compromise of one's integrity.
-verb (used with object) 5. to settle by a compromise.
6. to expose or make vulnerable to danger, suspicion, scandal, etc.; jeopardize: a military oversight that compromised the nation's defenses.
7. Obsolete. a. to bind by bargain or agreement.
b. to bring to terms.
-verb (used without object) 8. to make a compromise or compromises: The conflicting parties agreed to compromise.
9. to make a dishonorable or shameful concession: He is too honorable to compromise with his principles.
Most of you are using the term as meant in #4 or #9. In fact you should look at #1 or #3.
While I agree that the 2nd doesn't need "interpertation" and "shall not be infringed" isn't that hard to understand, there are a lot of politicians (and people who vote for them) who believe otherwise. If the NRA wasn't there to lobby against them, then there would be no need for compromise. They would pass all the draconian laws that they wanted. Remember to compromise, they have to give something up too. What would happen then? Would that finally galvanize gun owners to stage a political revolution of sorts? We spend so much time bickering amongst ourselves and supporting different things that we in effect are compromising our own values through inaction. Another point is that a lobbying group (such as the NRA) will never be able to fix the problem. They will only be able to compromise, because they do not make the laws (Congress), sign the bills into law (President), or rule on the laws (Supreme Court). Therefore the whole point of a lobbying body is to compromise with lawmakers.
If you choose to not support the NRA because of what it does, then that is your right. However, as it stands right now, there is no other group in Washington that has the political power to force the gun-grabbers to compromise. It will always be a compromise until the entire nation of gun owners get off of their collective dead butts and elects a complete gun-friendly government.0 -
The discussion about our gun rights and the 2nd Amendment really kills me..........As soon as I cannot carry my handgun over the border from PA to NY.....which is like "right now"....we have already lost our gun rights. What good does it do to carry while in the home area and leave the iron in the safe while traveling ? None....it's like taking your blood pressure pills on Tuesday only.
Why do all of our gun people seem to ignore this fact ? If we had any gumption we would all carry wherever we wanted to and if the NRA was effective they would provide funds to fight our legal woes, naturally we couldn't earn money to fight because we would be in jail......There are no longer any meaningful gun rights in the good old USA....0 -
Penna Bear1; quote:There are no longer any meaningful gun rights in the good old USA....
A point I have been trying to make since 1968.
The problem ? Most gun owners support gun control..feeling 'more secure' with gun laws..because that 'other guy' over there is just simply not capable of handling a gun,you know..
The REAl truth of the matter being..we are a Nation of Cowards. We no longer want to take responsibility for our own personal safety..and we trust the government more then we trust our neighbors.
We no longer have a free country..and we no longer deserve one.
We have failed the Founders...our children..and ourselves.
Luckily...most folks will never know the difference. After all..does a slave ever really feel the chains ?0
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