Legal question:
CA state law doesn't recognize the C&R license with regrads to handguns. A CA resident with a C&R cannot directly receive a handgun (even if C&R qualified) and must have it transferred through a 001 FFL dealer. Long guns are OK, but not pistols.
But what if a CA resident with a C&R goes to another state and presents the C&R to a dealer to purchase a C&R pistol? Under federal law this is perfectly legal, but would CA state law still apply to the buyer once he's left the state? He would be the legal owner of the gun as he returned to CA as far as the feds are concerned, but does state law apply when you are out of state?
But what if a CA resident with a C&R goes to another state and presents the C&R to a dealer to purchase a C&R pistol? Under federal law this is perfectly legal, but would CA state law still apply to the buyer once he's left the state? He would be the legal owner of the gun as he returned to CA as far as the feds are concerned, but does state law apply when you are out of state?
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State laws apply to in-state actions.
If the transaction took place in any way, shape or form in California, my guess is that the C&R holder is in trouble. So, if the offer was made in California, he'd be in trouble. If he paid with a California check (like a bank located in California and had a California address), he might be in trouble. If he had it delivered to his California address he'd be in trouble.
But, federal law trumps state law. So, if his C&R is legal in 49 other states, and he purchases a gun in one of those 49 other states, and he paid by some means other than a bank check, and he didn't receive the offer in California, then my guess is that he'd be okay.
Saying all of this, I am not a lawyer nor do I play one on television.0 -
a C&R holder could go outside of california and purchase a C&R handgun with his collector license but he could not legally take it back into the state of California without transfering it through an 01 FFL even if he legally owns it.
All handgun transfers in california legally need to go through an 01FFL even private transfers.0 -
MVP- I understand that all transfers IN THE STATE OF CA must go through an FFL. But the point is that the transfer legally took place OUTSIDE of CA. When a CA resident walks into an AZ gunshop he can legally buy a C&R gun by presenting his C&R and the dealer logs it out to him using the C&R license number. All of this is legal under federal law and I don't see how CA can impose it's laws in this situation since the sale is occurring outside the state of CA. When the buyer walks out of the gunshop he is the legal owner of that gun whether CA likes it or not.
Now, CA requires that all handguns be registered with the state, so when he gets home with that pistol he must register it but there is a state form to submit for "self registration" and it seems to me that this is exactly what it's made for. People who move to CA with handguns use this form, too. They do not need to transfer the guns to themselves through an FFL. Seems to me it would be the same for a C&R holder who bought a gun while out of state. It's his to bring back with him.
I asked this question to see if someone can come up with something that I haven't thought about, but it seems to me that CA cannot impose its will on people once they leave the state.0 -
SP - Do people who purchase firearms privately in kalifornia REALLY go and register them??
Do they take them to a gunshop to do it, or the local sheriff, or what??
If they owned firearms when this law took effect, did they have to register those??
D.0 -
Doug Wilson:
FFL in California have expensive terminals that run police checks, however there is a waiting period of 10 day's which doesn't make sense because the checks are immediate.
This discussion is exactly why I let my CCR expire, I'll pay and FFL what little they charge to stay up to speed on the ever changing laws.0 -
[8D]California C&R laws are simple--
-Article 2 of BATFE P 5300.5 (2005-26th ed.)
Sect 12020 para (7) States:
--Any firearm or ammunition that is a curior or Relic as defined in sect. 478.11 of title of the code of Fed Regs and which is in possession of a person permitted to possess the items pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with section 921) of Title 18 of the US Code and the Regs issued pursuan thereto. Any person prohibited by Section 8100 or 8103 of the welfare and institutions code from possessing firearms or ammunition who obtains title to these items by bequest or interstate succession may retain title for not more than one year, but actual possession of these items is punishable pursuant to section 12021,12021.1 or 12101 of this code of section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and institutions code. Within the year the person shall transfer title to the firearms or ammunition by,sale, gift,or other disposition.Any person who violates this paragraph, is in violation of subdivision (a).--
--Nothing to it--
--[:D][:D]--JIMBO0 -
DW- Private transfer of firearms between individuals is illegal in CA. All guns sales must go through an FFL. Do people trade guns between themselves W/O doing the legal thing? I'm sure it happens.
I believe that any handgun owned in CA was supposed to be registered when the law went into effect. I'm sure that many were not. Anyone moving to CA must register all handguns and I'm sure a few of those don't get registered as well. But the law is in place.
All of this, along with the AWB and magazine ban combined with sky-high taxation and ultra liberal politics explaines why I left CA in 1992.0 -
Thank you.
D.0 -
If "he" didn't drive crazy "he" could get it home safely without Ca even knowing about it. 0 -
Any sales must be in compliance with the laws in both the buyers and sellers state of residence. Therefore if someone from CA came into my shop here in Maine who had a C&R and purchased a C&R eligable handgun I could not legally transfer it to him. It would have to be shipped to his FFL dealer in CA. 0 -
You can buy a C & R pistol out of state and bring it back home with you. You must, however, register it with the DOJ by filling out a form and sending it to them with $19.00. I bought a CZ 52 in Texas a couple of years ago, brought it home and sent the $ and the form to the DOJ. Several months later, I received a letter of acknowledgement from them.
Pete0 -
I remember mark christian and EOD Guy (two badly missed former members) explaining the California C&R handgun issue exactly the way that PJ just outlined. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by 41 nut
Any sales must be in compliance with the laws in both the buyers and sellers state of residence. Therefore if someone from CA came into my shop here in Maine who had a C&R and purchased a C&R eligable handgun I could not legally transfer it to him. It would have to be shipped to his FFL dealer in CA.
exactly![^]0 -
My question is, is complying with both state's laws applicable to a buyer with a C&R FFL? That federal law about respecting both state's laws was written with an unlicensed buyer in mind. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by SaxonPig
CA state law doesn't recognize the C&R license with regrads to handguns. A CA resident with a C&R cannot directly receive a handgun (even if C&R qualified) and must have it transferred through a 001 FFL dealer. Long guns are OK, but not pistols.
But what if a CA resident with a C&R goes to another state and presents the C&R to a dealer to purchase a C&R pistol? Under federal law this is perfectly legal, but would CA state law still apply to the buyer once he's left the state? He would be the legal owner of the gun as he returned to CA as far as the feds are concerned, but does state law apply when you are out of state?
It is perfectly legal for a California C&R FFL holder to purchase any C&R firearm while out of state. Unless the firearm is a California defined "assault weapon", the firearms may be brought back to California. Handguns must be registered with 5 days of bringing them into the state. There is a form on the DOJ web site especially for the registration of C&R handguns bought while out of state.
I am in Arizona right now for Spring Training (watching, not participating [8D]) and while I haven't purchased any C&R handguns on this trip, I have done so on previous trips, reported them to DOJ, and received confirmation with no problems. I don't have my references with me and cannot quote specific references from the penal code, so you will have to take my word for the above information.0 -
quote:Originally posted by SaxonPig
My question is, is complying with both state's laws applicable to a buyer with a C&R FFL? That federal law about respecting both state's laws was written with an unlicensed buyer in mind.
Exactly. That portion of 27 CFR only applies to unlicensed buyers.0 -
quote:Originally posted by 41 nut
Any sales must be in compliance with the laws in both the buyers and sellers state of residence. Therefore if someone from CA came into my shop here in Maine who had a C&R and purchased a C&R eligable handgun I could not legally transfer it to him. It would have to be shipped to his FFL dealer in CA.
Absolutely incorrect! That only applies to an unlicensed buyer. A holder of a C&R FFL is licensed. In any case, California has specific procedures for C&R FFL holders buying while out of state.0 -
quote:Originally posted by blogdog37
Doug Wilson:
FFL in California have expensive terminals that run police checks, however there is a waiting period of 10 day's which doesn't make sense because the checks are immediate.
This discussion is exactly why I let my CCR expire, I'll pay and FFL what little they charge to stay up to speed on the ever changing laws.
The terminals at the dealers are only used to report the sales to DOJ. They do not run police checks. All the checks are done by DOJ.0
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