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Fighting Wars Without A Draft Or Taxes

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18 comments

  • flyingtorpedo
    And he is beating the war drum again[:(] Isn't 2 wars enough?
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  • v35
    Right you are Feenix. I forcast a draft as being a certainty about two years ago. No one here said peep on the subject.
    Having to do only one tour in a hell hole I'm shocked today's poor devils have to have to do multiple tours with just a short break.
    It just aint right.
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  • v35
    I dont think we'll be able to do it much longer without a draft and War Bonds.
    Dissent among professional military can't be ignored.
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  • kristov
    I was never a supporter of the draft and I became less so after our own WWII vet Joe told us that when he enlisted it was for a period of the duration PLUS six months. He also said that there were men in his division who had gone overseas and not been home for three years, nor did they have expectation of doing so until the war was over. I know that Joe is made of sterner stuff than most of us, but I'll bet he'd have thought he'd gone to heaven if after 15-18 months in a combat zone he got to go home to the States and stay for a full year before returning to duty overseas.
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  • MosinNagantDisciple
    quote:Originally posted by v35
    Right you are Feenix. I forcast a draft as being a certainty about two years ago. No one here said peep on the subject.
    Having to do only one tour in a hell hole I'm shocked today's poor devils have to have to do multiple tours with just a short break.
    It just aint right.


    A draft is political suicide, especially when the conflict in question is not a declared war. You will never see a draft again unless our country is actually attacked by another sovereign country.

    You can take that statement to the bank.
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  • mcaso
    Draft by 2015 regardless of which party is in.
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  • kristov
    quote:Originally posted by v35

    Dissent among professional military can't be ignored.



    Those are supposed to be hand picked people.
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  • v35
    It is political suicide and that's why we have mercenary armies.
    I saw and heard what just one tour did to families at home. The situation with military families today must be an unpublished disaster having an older Army drawn from NG and reserves.
    I remember one 35yr old WOG we called Pappy Allen, a WW2 retread.
    That's probably the mean age of a sargeant today.
    Unreasonable demands made on our military personnel today, in a desperate effort by the Govt to put off a draft, has caused the dissent.
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  • mongrel1776
    Diverting just a bit from the main topic -- since President Bush considers the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq vital to our interests, and obviously there is a need for more people wearing the uniform.... Why aren't his daughters serving?

    I would only support a draft if it were comprehensive -- none of the deferments we saw in the Vietnam era, after the powers-that-be discovered that failure to keep "the best and the brightest" out of harm's way was detrimental to long-term business and political interests. The only valid reasons I can see for fighting wars is for our national survival and/or the survival of the world as a whole, or, in certain few-and-far-between circumstances, for the sake of our honor. In either case "the best and brightest" should run the same risk of dying in battle that the traditional "cannon fodder" do. After all, who stands to benefit more from our nation's survival, than those who will be entering the worlds of big-scale business and politics? Let them pay their way in blood -- otherwise don't ask or order the rest of us (or, more accurately, our kids) to do so.
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  • tccox
    Mongrel, you asked why the pres daughers were not in the army??? Well maybe because it is an all vol army?? My daughter went airforce because she wanted to do someting for our countrty. What have you done. ?
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  • ElMuertoMonkey
    tccox,

    Mongrel ain't president and he ain't advocating others sacrifice for something he started, now is he?
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  • FEENIX
    quote:Originally posted by tccox
    Mongrel, you asked why the pres daughers were not in the army??? Well maybe because it is an all vol army?? My daughter went airforce because she wanted to do someting for our countrty. What have you done. ?


    +1. My oldest son is also in the USAF - 4th generation of continued military service - and now my youngest son (10th grade) is also contemplating. [^]
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  • HandLoad
    My ONLY child, a Daughter, volunteered, and is in the USAF.

    Volunteer Military means you get the best. Draft the dummies, and you spend more personnel training/supervising/correcting/arresting the idiots. The added bodies do not result in a commensurate increase in fighting ability, and makes movement more ponderous, less agile/responsive.

    The article quoted has a glaring fallacy (outright lie?) within it: neither the percentage nor the sheer numbers of our losses are high.
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  • spanielsells
    quote:Originally posted by mongrel1776
    Diverting just a bit from the main topic -- since President Bush considers the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq vital to our interests, and obviously there is a need for more people wearing the uniform.... Why aren't his daughters serving?

    Why should they? Who the hell are you to demand that they serve? They are their own persons, adults, and only they have the right to determine if they should serve or not.

    Your question is childish at best, ignorant at worst.
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  • mongrel1776
    quote:Originally posted by spanielsells
    quote:Originally posted by mongrel1776
    Diverting just a bit from the main topic -- since President Bush considers the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq vital to our interests, and obviously there is a need for more people wearing the uniform.... Why aren't his daughters serving?

    Why should they? Who the hell are you to demand that they serve? They are their own persons, adults, and only they have the right to determine if they should serve or not.

    Your question is childish at best, ignorant at worst.

    I didn't demand. I asked a question. I understand completely that we have an all-volunteer military. The point made in the original post was the difficulty of continuing this war without a draft or taxes to provide manpower and funds. The point to my question was, if our President's daughters decline to serve, what obligation is any other young person in this country under?

    Notice I didn't say a word, pro or con, about those who serve. I have younger relatives in the service, one of whom has served two tours in Afghanistan. When I question why the President's daughters aren't in uniform, it isn't by way of implying a lack of support for those who are. Rather, it's that I consider their duty an honorable sacrifice made to our nation, and question why the children of the man who has made that sacrifice a matter of life and death are not stepping up to the plate.

    It's neither childish nor ignorant to expect a leader, and the family of that leader, to set an example for the rest of the nation. It's idealistic. I realize it's also unrealistic, in this day and age, but I wouldn't say it constitutes immaturity or ignorance to ask a question based on the hope that it might be otherwise.

    I'm not going to get sucked into a whizzing contest on this one. At last check I had the right to ask questions, as you and others have the right to question and/or disagree with my position. At last check, also, the situation in Iraq, and the related issues in our own country, were slightly too complicated to be solved either by my asking questions or someone else's firing off a post, taking offense to my doing so.

    For the information of those whose response to criticism of the current handling of our international affairs is, What have YOU done? -- in the course of being recruited into the Marines, after having VOLUNTARILY signed the papers, I was determined to be of 3F draft status and honorably discharged. I am presently 44 years old and too busted up, physically, to be much more than a liability if I were to somehow enter military service at this point in my life. You could say I've done nothing to merit the right to speak, but in so doing you would deprive any person not actually in the service, at this moment, of their right to do so, also.

    I'm neither entirely in favor of nor entirely opposed to the war in Iraq, so no one with strong feelings on either side is going to find me in lock-step with them. If that makes me the object of contempt on both sides, well, I'm a unifier. I got you all to agree on at least one thing. Savor the moment. [:D]
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  • woodshermit
    We should stop worrying and go shopping. The People have spoken.
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  • joeaf1911a1
    Even after the bombing of Pearl Harbor only 1 out of 3 enlisted, so 2
    out of three were drafted. However even having been a enlistee, I saw no difference in those drafted or who enlisted either in ground combat
    efficiency or in "brains". Actually didnt know who in my platoon enlisted or was drafted and didnt care as long as they did their jobs
    which most all did, and did it well. My vote is for a draft. With all the hi tech equiptment we still men to take and hold ground and as far as a standing Army we sure are low on the totem pole in comparison to many other non-friendly countries. We stupidly waited too long in WW 2
    to draft. And we paid dearly for it in casualties by sending poorly
    trained soldiers into combat with only a few months of training. Yes, I was one of them but luckily had 20 weeks of training prior to my first combat. Is this what one would want for his son? Or would you rather see him properly and fully trained?
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  • mlincoln
    The moment the government slaps a $2 a gallon tax on gas or abolishes Bush's tax cuts or institutes the draft with no exemptions for school or family, the US will pull out of Iraq. The war has gone on as long as it has because the vast majority of people who vote and play a role in politics--middle and upper class educated folks--have not had their lives disrupted in the least by it. Really, honestly, you go to Lowes or to the mall or the movie theater, and there is absolutely no evidence that a war is going on. People are remodeling bathrooms, planning college trips, shopping for fall wardrobes. Outside of America's military bases there is just no evidence that American soldiers are fighting and dying overseas.

    But the soccer mom with the W sticker on the back of her new SUV who votes for George Bush because he's a strong leader--when her taxes suddenly go way up and her two boys get told to leave school and suit up for Fallujah, she will turn on Bush in a heartbeat. My father-in-law is a defense contractor. When I talk to him, he's all excited about the big paychecks rolling in and new contracts and so forth. I ask him what he thinks about the war, and he tells me that business has never been better and that he'll clear $2,000,000 next year. Really, over 3,000 American servicemen and women dead and he talks about how he'll finally be able to buy a nice boat.

    This country is stratifying into those with incredible wealth and no sense of responsibility, and those with next to nothing who give all.
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