house sale went bad--update
After waiting 3 weeks for all of the contingincy's to be ment and yesterday at 5:00 pm was the dead line, our realtor called and said that the buyers sent a e-mail to them and wanted to cancel the contract that they had signed, or lower the selling price by 30,000.00 .
** Update--Sale of house is done, buyer is getting escrow back. We are so upset over this that we are just dropping everthing and not suing anybody. The realtor admitted listing the property wrong as having 1 - 2 acres and it only has alittle less than 1 acre. The buyer thinks that they were being cheated or lyed to. When we listed the house we told the realtor that it had 1+- acre but we furnished her with the survay that didn't stated the acrage but was told that she would figure out the acrage and list it correctly. I guess she didn't and just listed it as 1-2 acres. The home inspection brought to light the difference and the buyer went nuts and dropped the sale.
There is over 900 feet of water front and there is something called riparin rights that was not figured into the acreage that would have brought the total acreage to over 1 acre. The buyers are so mad at their realtor that they are not talking to them anymore so we can't explain the total acreage to them, they just want out. So its over and we start again. We started listing the house at 480,000 and had dropped the price to 375,000 just to sell it so we could go to Tenn.. so that my wife could take care of her parents that are in there 80's and we were not going any lower on the price, we just wanted a quick sale. The house should sell for 600,000 to 700,000 if we wanted to wait.
** Update--Sale of house is done, buyer is getting escrow back. We are so upset over this that we are just dropping everthing and not suing anybody. The realtor admitted listing the property wrong as having 1 - 2 acres and it only has alittle less than 1 acre. The buyer thinks that they were being cheated or lyed to. When we listed the house we told the realtor that it had 1+- acre but we furnished her with the survay that didn't stated the acrage but was told that she would figure out the acrage and list it correctly. I guess she didn't and just listed it as 1-2 acres. The home inspection brought to light the difference and the buyer went nuts and dropped the sale.
There is over 900 feet of water front and there is something called riparin rights that was not figured into the acreage that would have brought the total acreage to over 1 acre. The buyers are so mad at their realtor that they are not talking to them anymore so we can't explain the total acreage to them, they just want out. So its over and we start again. We started listing the house at 480,000 and had dropped the price to 375,000 just to sell it so we could go to Tenn.. so that my wife could take care of her parents that are in there 80's and we were not going any lower on the price, we just wanted a quick sale. The house should sell for 600,000 to 700,000 if we wanted to wait.
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I hate to say it but Harry is right. Your agent contracted by you misrepresented the house and property so the buyer has every right to back out!. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by select-fire
Who buys a 375,000 piece of property without having it surveyed. Survey would say how much property it is. Something stinks on this sale. Buyers were looking for an out on the agreement. Any chance the Realtor showed them another property? or they found something that fit them better?
In my experience, the mortgage company/bank will order a survey to be done BUT (big but) it isn't ordered and completed until after almost all the financial checks on the buyer are completed.
At that point, when the survey came in, I believe the bank said, "Oops, we have an overvalued property and won't loan the money. We will loan only $x, y&z."
FWIT, suing the Realtor is wasting your time and money. The Agent's defense is "You told me you had more than 1 acre and I took your word for it."
The buyer is out some money as well--loan approval costs, home inspection costs, survey costs, additional rental costs (or worse, if the buyer had been planning to sell his house and buy yours!)
Again, my suggestion is to call your agent's broker and talk to him/her. Suggest the financial split and it might work for you.
Good luck.0 -
if anything it sounds like a realtors fault. I mean if the buyer thought they were getting an acre more than they really were, i would want to drop the price or not buy at all. 0 -
UPDATE......
Sue the living crap out of your Realtor....go after his errors and omission policy.... He is FULLY liabe for the error.
This is BUSINESS....He screwed up....he pays.0 -
Actually i wouldn't sue but i would make them pay for the paper work and if anyone wants to get even let the buyers make there realtor pay the fee's, after all it isn't the buyers fault. let them go but have them pay any paper fees, usually in this kind of stuff there is a fee that you can pay to get out of the buy. there realtor should take care of it but that will be the buyers choice. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by gjshaw
After waiting 3 weeks for all of the contingincy's to be ment and yesterday at 5:00 pm was the dead line, our realtor called and said that the buyers sent a e-mail to them and wanted to cancel the contract that they had signed, or lower the selling price by 30,000.00 .
** Update--Sale of house is done, buyer is getting escrow back. We are so upset over this that we are just dropping everthing and not suing anybody. The realtor admitted listing the property wrong as having 1 - 2 acres and it only has alittle less than 1 acre. The buyer thinks that they were being cheated or lyed to. When we listed the house we told the realtor that it had 1+- acre but we furnished her with the survay that didn't stated the acrage but was told that she would figure out the acrage and list it correctly. I guess she didn't and just listed it as 1-2 acres. The home inspection brought to light the difference and the buyer went nuts and dropped the sale.
There is over 900 feet of water front and there is something called riparin rights that was not figured into the acreage that would have brought the total acreage to over 1 acre. The buyers are so mad at their realtor that they are not talking to them anymore so we can't explain the total acreage to them, they just want out. So its over and we start again. We started listing the house at 480,000 and had dropped the price to 375,000 just to sell it so we could go to Tenn.. so that my wife could take care of her parents that are in there 80's and we were not going any lower on the price, we just wanted a quick sale. The house should sell for 600,000 to 700,000 if we wanted to wait.
These people must not have wanted the house for some reason. If they qualified and would have almost 40% equity (based on the sales price vs. what you say the house is actually worth at typical marketing time) and still walked away something is off. They would have had over 200k in equity according to your numbers. Sounds like they cant afford the price.0 -
$700K tops and you settled for $375K and had fees. Hummm.. I think I would get an appraisal on the property and list it just a tad lower. Gives plenty of room to make the buyer feel good on an offer. 0 -
Keep in mind that whenever you think about suing somebody, it's going to cost one heck of a lot of money and there's no guarantee that you'll win. Somebody will win: your lawyer and the other guy's lawyer. They'll have lots of steady work and they will get paid and you'll be amazed that you have to pay $1.50 per photocopied page.
Think about what your ultimate goal is: you want to sell your house. These people now no longer want to buy it. Perhaps if you came to them with your hat in your hand and offered them $10,000 off the price, they might. Perhaps you might want to try to sue them. I imagine you could roll up $10,000 in legal fees no problem at all, and you might get $15,000 from them, and so you've gained $5,000 and it has only taken you two years and God only knows how many phone calls and letters and so forth.
In short, it's a buyer's market and this kind of BS happens. It happened to me. Guy walked out on a contract, and I wanted to SUE! My realtor told me I was being stupid, that I needed to move on and find another buyer, and once he laid it all out to me I realized he was right.0 -
quote:Originally posted by mlincoln
Keep in mind that whenever you think about suing somebody, it's going to cost one heck of a lot of money and there's no guarantee that you'll win. Somebody will win: your lawyer and the other guy's lawyer. They'll have lots of steady work and they will get paid and you'll be amazed that you have to pay $1.50 per photocopied page.
Think about what your ultimate goal is: you want to sell your house. These people now no longer want to buy it. Perhaps if you came to them with your hat in your hand and offered them $10,000 off the price, they might. Perhaps you might want to try to sue them. I imagine you could roll up $10,000 in legal fees no problem at all, and you might get $15,000 from them, and so you've gained $5,000 and it has only taken you two years and God only knows how many phone calls and letters and so forth.
In short, it's a buyer's market and this kind of BS happens. It happened to me. Guy walked out on a contract, and I wanted to SUE! My realtor told me I was being stupid, that I needed to move on and find another buyer, and once he laid it all out to me I realized he was right.
Pretty realistic. However, if the part in red had a good clean and tight purchase agreement and your buyer walked in violation of that agreement, then the buyer should have lost a sizeable earnest deposit to you. The earnest deposit should either now be in your possession or the buyer should have had been the one to launch the long, expensive, drawn out legal battle in an effort to recover his earnest deposit.
Once an earnest deposit is deposited in the trust fund, in all cases I know of, it stays there until certain conditions are met by all parties. This usually has the effect of generally causing the buyer to remain fairly cooperative rather than lose their earnest deposit or to have to spend $5,000.00 in legal bills to recover a $1,000-$5,000 earnest deposit.0 -
if you try to sue the govt or a big corportaion they have unlimited funds, so when you do sue, look for a settlement 0 -
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
However, if the part in red had a good clean and tight purchase agreement and your buyer walked in violation of that agreement, then the buyer should have lost a sizeable earnest deposit to you. The earnest deposit should either now be in your possession or the buyer should have had been the one to launch the long, expensive, drawn out legal battle in an effort to recover his earnest deposit. The buyer didn't walk; the SELLER failed to describe the property correctly at best or misrepresented the property at worst.
quote: Once an earnest deposit is deposited in the trust fund, in all cases I know of, it stays there until certain conditions are met by all parties. This usually has the effect of generally causing the buyer to remain fairly cooperative rather than lose their earnest deposit or to have to spend $5,000.00 in legal bills to recover a $1,000-$5,000 earnest deposit.[/size=2]And most sales contracts include a provision that if there is a misrepresentation of the property, the Buyer gets his escrow deposit back without further demand to the Title Company.0 -
quote:Originally posted by HAIRY
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
However, if the part in red had a good clean and tight purchase agreement and your buyer walked in violation of that agreement, then the buyer should have lost a sizeable earnest deposit to you. The earnest deposit should either now be in your possession or the buyer should have had been the one to launch the long, expensive, drawn out legal battle in an effort to recover his earnest deposit. The buyer didn't walk; the SELLER failed to describe the property correctly at best or misrepresented the property at worst.
quote: Once an earnest deposit is deposited in the trust fund, in all cases I know of, it stays there until certain conditions are met by all parties. This usually has the effect of generally causing the buyer to remain fairly cooperative rather than lose their earnest deposit or to have to spend $5,000.00 in legal bills to recover a $1,000-$5,000 earnest deposit.[/size=2]And most sales contracts include a provision that if there is a misrepresentation of the property, the Buyer gets his escrow deposit back without further demand to the Title Company.[red]and if there is a "claimed" misrepresentation, in many cases buyer and seller will disagree on that "claim". In such a case are you telling everyone that some party to the transaction (REALTOR, title company, etc) is willing to risk the legal liability of making a legal decision as to whether or not there was indeed a "misrepresentation" and then either deciding to award all or part of the earnest deposit to either the buyer or to the seller? Or is it more likely, in the case of a dispute between buyer and seller NO MONEY is moved, paid, or refunded until the case is either agreed upon by buyer and seller or the case is decided in court?
Hairy, I was responding to the post of mlincoln whom, I believe, has not revealed the full details of his transaction.
He merely briefly mentioned without providing details. If true, then your opinion is based upon a situation you and I know little about. However, youe opinion is specific and mine was general. If true, my posting fits the few facts revealed by mlincoln whereas your opinion goes way beyond any revealed facts.
Of course I realize you know all and see all, so perhaps you know the full details of the transaction mentioned by mlincoln whereas no one else knows. If so, please reveal those specific facts.
Thank you very much.0 -
You're welcome.
I was responding to the original thrust of the post.
And, FWIT, misrepresentation is easy to identify and one does not need be a lawyer to state what it is.
For example: acreage is stated to be 1 or more acres and the survey says it isn't, well, tr fox, that's misrepresentation.
Seller says the roof doesn't leak but home inspectors and roofing company says it does; well, tr fox, that's misrepresentation.
Seller says home was treated by seller for termites and it wasn't, well, tr fox, that's misrepresentation.
All are grounds for the buyer to get the escrow deposit back without further demand upon the title company.0 -
quote:Originally posted by HAIRY
You're welcome.
I was responding to the original thrust of the post.
And, FWIT, misrepresentation is easy to identify and one does not need be a lawyer to state what it is.
For example: acreage is stated to be 1 or more acres and the survey says it isn't, well, tr fox, that's misrepresentation. you over simplify. In this example, say seller makes counter claim that survey is wrong. This introduces uncertainty into situation. Until that uncertainty is cleared up, no one in their right mind (broker, escrow company, etc) is going to take any action such as giving the earnest money deposit back to the buyer, or to the seller, until agreement among both buyer and seller or until directed to do so by a legal entity.
Seller says the roof doesn't leak but home inspectors and roofing company says it does; well, tr fox, that's misrepresentation. seller says yeah, it leaked as of yesterday, but I fixed it this morning. More uncertainty introduced into situation. Broker, escrow company, etc. unable to move on this either way.
Seller says home was treated by seller for termites and it wasn't, well, tr fox, that's misrepresentation. seller says he forgot and will now treat house for termites. broker, escrow company, etc. now unsure what action to take on earnest deposit. So the sit tight and let buyer and seller battle it out.
All are grounds for the buyer to get the escrow deposit back without further demand upon the title company. when a sales goes bad, many times the earnest money stays put for a long time.0 -
Hope you have lots of money for attorneys.
For seller to claim survey is wrong, he must produce a recent certified survey that says so. Title company would have a third survey done (cost split between the two) to determine accuracy. Saying ain't making it so, tr fox, despite your wish.
Repairs on roof can be verified quickly by a licensed roofer and roof repairs MUST be done by a licensed roofer.
FYI, tr fox, all repairs done on plumbing, electrical, roof, termite, concrete foundation settling, etc., must be completed by a licensed professional. Owner's work is unacceptable. That's why a licensed INSPECTOR is used and copies of repair invoices are furnished to the buyer by the seller.
Re: termite. Buyer can deny seller's willingness to treat "now" and move forward to claim escrow.
quote: .... when a sales goes bad, many times the earnest money stays put for a long time. I don't know how you define "many" but as the Transaction Coordinator for my company, out of the 290 canceled sales our company had from January 1, 2000 to yesterday. ONLY ONE remained in dispute for more than 2 months. I don't consider this "many" at all but will defer to your unique definition.
To repeat, tr fox, hope you have lots of money for attorneys. Have a great day.[:D][:D]0 -
About three years ago, I was the purchaser of three acres that was supposed to have sewage access and water access. Turns out it did not have either, but that was discovered after i plunked down the earnest money. After some heated discussion and talk of lawsuits, it was decided that I should get back my cash and walk from the deal. It was a classic case of misrepresentation of a property. The sellers knew that the h20 and sewer lines were over half mile away and not really accessable, they just forgot to tell the agent about that little point when it was listed.
So, sometimes it is best to just move on and find another piece of property or buyer.0 -
[:0]For the difference in value that you state, $600,000-$700,000, over the price you tried to sell it for you could hire someone to come sit in the house for a year or two. Damn $200,000-$300,000 premium will buy you a hell of a housesitter. I will come down and sit on your house and sell the place for you for half of the prem over your $375,000 price.[:0]
If you need cash for the move and a new place, take out a mortgage on the equity to get going in Tenn![:0][:0]
There has to be a solution there.0 -
I had a situation once where my realtor had my house sold to a young couple that worked for a city government 30 miles away.They were about to close on the house, and found out that city regulations required them to live in the city where they worked. They had $5,000.00 up in earnest money, and we gave them their money back. After a few months, I raised the price on the house $5,000.00 and had a few nibbles - one day an older couple looked at the house, and signed a contract at the asking price if we could close on the house in 2 weeks. We did, they paid in full with a cashier's check. After we were all done, the young couple that backed out of the sale showed up at my Realtors office; seems the city they worked for had agreed to give them a variance so they could buy my house --- and the older couple that bought my house were the young ladies parents ... they bought the house for them and never mentioned the $5,000.00 higher price.
Karma is a strange thing, you never know what will happen.
I hope something good like this happens for you.0 -
And you didn't need a lawyer either. Congrats on a good sale. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by HAIRY
Hope you have lots of money for attorneys.
For seller to claim survey is wrong, he must produce a recent certified survey that says so. Title company would have a third survey done (cost split between the two) to determine accuracy. Saying ain't making it so, tr fox, despite your wish.
Repairs on roof can be verified quickly by a licensed roofer and roof repairs MUST be done by a licensed roofer.
FYI, tr fox, all repairs done on plumbing, electrical, roof, termite, concrete foundation settling, etc., must be completed by a licensed professional. Owner's work is unacceptable. That's why a licensed INSPECTOR is used and copies of repair invoices are furnished to the buyer by the seller.
Re: termite. Buyer can deny seller's willingness to treat "now" and move forward to claim escrow.
quote: .... when a sales goes bad, many times the earnest money stays put for a long time. I don't know how you define "many" but as the Transaction Coordinator for my company, out of the 290 canceled sales our company had from January 1, 2000 to yesterday. ONLY ONE remained in dispute for more than 2 months. I don't consider this "many" at all but will defer to your unique definition.
To repeat, tr fox, hope you have lots of money for attorneys. Have a great day.[:D][:D]
This only proves you haven't had enough experience with "Transaction Coordinator" duties. Don't let your boss know about this.0 -
No, tr fox, it just proves you don't know what you are talking about nor do you understand the usual meaning of the word "many".
Try finding a subject you have some knowledge about. Do let us know if you have one.0 -
quote:Originally posted by HAIRY
No, tr fox, it just proves you don't know what you are talking about nor do you understand the usual meaning of the word "many".
Try finding a subject you have some knowledge about. Do let us know if you have one.
OK, I'll do some research and get right back to you. Please hold your breath in the meantime.0 -
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
OK, I'll do some research and get right back to you. Please hold your breath in the meantime.
LMAO. You "have" to research to determine if you have any knowledge about a subject? Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha0 -
quote:Originally posted by HAIRY
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
OK, I'll do some research and get right back to you. Please hold your breath in the meantime.
LMAO. You "have" to research to determine if you have any knowledge about a subject? Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha
What? Your're still alive? I thought I told you to hold your breath until I got back to you.
In truth I have such a vast store of knowledge that even I don't know all the things I know. Therefore the need for my previously mentioned "research".
Now please follow my instructions until I get back to you. Thank you.0 -
Yep, tr fox, I have no doubt you have half-vast knowledge.
Keep searching. LMAO0 -
quote:Originally posted by HAIRY
Yep, tr fox, I have no doubt you have half-vast knowledge.
Keep searching. LMAO
What part of "hold your breath until I get back to you" do you not understand? I thought you were smart.0 -
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
quote:Originally posted by HAIRY
Yep, tr fox, I have no doubt you have half-vast knowledge.
Keep searching. LMAO
What part of "hold your breath until I get back to you" do you not understand? I thought you were smart.
Well, don't know if I'm smart or not, but I do know not to pay attention to someone who doesn't know what he's saying or doing.
What part of your being half-vast do you need explaining?0 -
quote:Originally posted by HAIRY
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
quote:Originally posted by HAIRY
Yep, tr fox, I have no doubt you have half-vast knowledge.
Keep searching. LMAO
What part of "hold your breath until I get back to you" do you not understand? I thought you were smart.
Well, don't know if I'm smart or not, but I do know not to pay attention to someone who doesn't know what he's saying or doing.
What part of your being half-vast do you need explaining?
Hairy, upon behalf of most of the GB.com members, I am requesting that you hold your breath until I return with the information you requested.
And in answer to your "..don't know if I'm smart or not.." most of us have to vote for the "not".0 -
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
Hairy, upon behalf of most of the GB.com members, I am requesting that you hold your breath until I return with the information you requested. And your "most" is along the same lines of accuracy as your use of "many". quote:
And in answer to your "..don't know if I'm smart or not.." most of us have to vote for the "not".You must be a Republican--falsifying the votes. Now you keep searching while I continue to hold my breath.0 -
quote:Originally posted by HAIRY
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
Hairy, upon behalf of most of the GB.com members, I am requesting that you hold your breath until I return with the information you requested. And your "most" is along the same lines of accuracy as your use of "many". quote:
And in answer to your "..don't know if I'm smart or not.." most of us have to vote for the "not".You must be a Republican--falsifying the votes. Now you keep searching while I continue to hold my breath.
Now you have resorted to lying. If you respond to this post you obviously have not been holding your breath long enough.
Try not lying about holding your breath and hold it until my next post to you.
Thank you.0
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