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V-22 Osprey Undergunned?

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21 comments

  • Rack Ops
    Every time I hear the Osprey mentioned, my stomach turns....

    I'm not an aircraft engineer, but as an ex-grunt I think its a death-trap
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  • flyingtorpedo
    Put a 20mm on that thing
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  • ElMuertoMonkey
    The V-22 sounds good on paper, but as is so often the case, paper and reality are two different things. In my opinion it should have been kept as a test platform until the technology matured.
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  • Old Fool
    The V-22 is the replacement for the CH-46 Sea Knight. The Sea Knight is unarmed. Just because ONE General wanted to "John Wayne" it does not make it a good idea. Sanitizing LZs is the job of the Cobra and the Super Hornet.

    OldFool.jpg
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  • ripley16
    quote:Originally posted by Rack Ops
    Every time I hear the Osprey mentioned, my stomach turns....

    I'm not an aircraft engineer, but as an ex-grunt I think its a death-trap


    I see them at Quantico. These things are fast as hell compared to helocopters. You can hear a helocopter a long way off, whereas the Osprey is there and gone quickly. It is very expensive, but it's lightyears ahead of other VSTL troop transports.
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  • Txs
    quote:Originally posted by Old Fool
    The V-22 is the replacement for the CH-46 Sea Knight. The Sea Knight is unarmed. Just because ONE General wanted to "John Wayne" it does not make it a good idea. Sanitizing LZs is the job of the Cobra and the Super Hornet.I've seen M2/M3's mounted on the rear.

    Gunships and fighter/bombers are useful for LZ prep, but you might not always be able to utilize this capability. They're also useless when helicopters are entering/exiting an area that turns out to be (or becomes) "warm". When receiving fire, nothing beats the ability to shoot back.
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  • Old Fool
    The V-22 is a lot faster in and out of an LZ, but I see your point. guns mounted on the ramp would not be a problem, as long as they are small and light (no M-2), But putting a chain gun up front wastes payload, space, etc.

    OldFool.jpg
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  • Sigfan
    quote:Originally posted by Old Fool
    The V-22 is the replacement for the CH-46 Sea Knight. The Sea Knight is unarmed. Just because ONE General wanted to "John Wayne" it does not make it a good idea. Sanitizing LZs is the job of the Cobra and the Super Hornet.

    OldFool.jpg




    +1
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  • p3skyking
    I witnessed the trials of the Osprey while at NAS Moffet (Next to NASA/Ames). It was a far out machine. I never felt it would be outgunned as it always was supposed to carry either a Harrier or a F/A-18.[:p]
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  • mlincoln
    It's also can't auto-rotate if the engine is disabled. If the engine goes even at low altitudes, everybody dies.
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  • givette
    Mixed blessing. Best if you went into a suppressed LZ than a hot one. That means "fast movers" are needed to arrive at the drop area before the osprey. Helo's won't be able to keep up.

    I wouldn't in any way let any osprey into a known hot LZ.

    So, lets let the osprey orbit away from the LZ till the gunships catch up? Have the ospreys depart later than the choppers? Negats!! Defeats the osprey's reason for existing, which is speed to the LZ.

    It's speed/vulnarability, in my opinion really limit tactical operations. They have to be teamed with jet aircraft to utilize their speed potential. Joe

    Only validation? Long distance troop deployment from a rear area into a "cold" drop zone where there's no airfield. Joe
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  • gunnut505
    This thing is an abomination that will eventually kill more Marines than the combined forces of the entire World!
    It's noisy as hell, we hear these things coming miles away, throbbing their way across the sky, it takes way too long to transition to vertical flight, takes another forever to land "like a helo", and has no windows to see/shoot out of! It's also subject to "rotor ring" turbulence, and when one engine revs to take up supposed slack; the whole thing turns over like a flapjack and then crashes and BURNS killing everyone inside.
    There's absolutely NO reason this piece of crap should be in combat!
    I see them ambling across the sky in Albuquerque almost every day, and I keep an eye on 'em, so I know which direction NOT to go.
    There's no crew protection, no "cargo" protection, no way to silence those 18' props, no way to land it speedily without using at least a half-mile of clean, dry road, and NOW they want to put a gun on it?!
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  • Warpig883
    The Blackhawk started flying in the early 70s and killed many. It was still killing crews in the mid 80s after it had been widely deployed through the Army. It was known as the lawn dart.

    The Apache also had hellish gremlins in the 80s.

    My point is after the bugs are worked out of the technology they can be a good machine. I think the idea is a good one they should continue development. As far as eliminating deaths during testing of experimental aircraft I hope they can find a way.

    As for the original post-what in the hell are the Marines thinking? Of course it needs guns!!!
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  • bobski
    its a CARGO craft.[:I]
    show me an armed C-2.[8]
    doesnt need guns.[:I]
    the fact that it has one, is plenty.
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  • gunnut505
    Trouble is, the "cargo" is troops!
    Might as well call ahead to let the bad guys know we're calling, "Time Out!" in order to let this thing land and let our soldiers out BEFORE they start shooting at it!
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  • mrseatle
    I'd take the Osprey over the Chinhooks I used to ride around in. (The main reason: because the engines aren't right above your head, like in a helicopter) When I was in Korea we lost 16 Helicopters in one year and only 1 of those was from Enemy Fire.
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  • ObiWan
    The V-22 should be made an unmanned assault vehicle for the US Marine Corps.

    It could be modified to drop a chain gun from it's belly and hold a position anywhere's on the battlefield to provide fire support. It could then convert to conventional flight to move across the battle field and drop munitions or drop air to surface missiles that would support the warfighter.

    It's current role is stupid. It is not capable to fly from the US to a combat zone due to icing problems. It should be a UAV platform. Got Marines in Afghanistan that are hungry? It'll bring them food and provide it's own fire support for transport operations. Just fill it up when she lands.

    A MC-130 will put Marines wherever they need to be on this globe.
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  • cce1302
    quote:Originally posted by Old Fool
    The V-22 is the replacement for the CH-46 Sea Knight. The Sea Knight is unarmed. Just because ONE General wanted to "John Wayne" it does not make it a good idea. Sanitizing LZs is the job of the Cobra and the Super Hornet.

    OldFool.jpg




    When did they take the guns off the 46s?

    The 53 outruns all the other supporting helos as well (cobras, etc).

    I never had to ride an Osprey, but I probably will if we go back to Afghanistan.

    They're a lot quieter (rotors fwd) than either the 53 or the 46.

    They can carry a lot more cargo than the 46 ever could.

    They can't carry it nearly as fast as they should when it's externally slung (think HMMWV at 200 knots [:0] ).

    Some of my buddies are flying them now.

    Marine ingenuity being what it is, I'd be surprised if the crew chiefs hadn't already figured a way to add some external weapons on those things. I've seen some amazing 7-ton gun trucks that didn't leave Oshkosh that way.
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  • Old Fool
    quote:Originally posted by mlincoln
    It's also can't auto-rotate if the engine is disabled. If the engine goes even at low altitudes, everybody dies.




    It has two engines, and can operate on one.

    OldFool.jpg
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  • Old Fool
    The 46 never had a fixed gun position or turret. I agree that Marine crew chiefs are wonderfully resourceful men who have installed everything on anything [:D]. As I understand it this gen wanted to mount a chain gun under the nose [V]

    OldFool.jpg
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  • mlincoln
    http://www.pbs.org/newshour/forum/military/july-dec07/osprey_07-182.html


    I found this site quite interesting. A pro and con to each question.
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