New Source for Enlistments
General Wants Gay Ban Lifted
Military.com | January 03, 2007
In an op-ed published in Tuesday's New York Times, John M. Shalikashvili, retired Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, says Congress should give "serious reconsideration" to "Don't Ask, Don't Tell," the ban on openly lesbian, gay and bisexual military personnel. Shalikashvili, who supported the ban on open service in 1993, writes that "I now believe that if gay men and lesbians served openly in the United States military, they would not undermine the efficacy of the armed forces," and goes on to say that "Our military has been stretched thin by our deployments in the Middle East, and we must welcome the service of any American who is willing and able to do the job."
"'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' is out of step with both the American public and those within our armed forces," said C. Dixon Osburn, executive director of Servicemembers Legal Defense Network (SLDN). "The counsel of military leaders increasingly supports repeal of the law. Congress must, as General Shalikashvili urges, consider the overwhelming evidence of the past fourteen years. If they do, the clear answer is that we must lift the ban."
Shalikashvili, who was Chairman of the Joint Chiefs from 1993 to 1997, joins other senior retired military officers who have called for repeal of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell." In May 2006, Lieutenant General Claudia Kennedy, USA (Ret.), the first female three-star officer in Army history, called the law "a hollow policy that serves no useful purpose." Lieutenant General Daniel W. Christman, former superintendent of West Point, recently told The New York Times that "It is clear that national attitudes toward this issue have evolved considerably in the last decade. This has been led by a new generation of service members who take a more relaxed and tolerant view toward homosexuality." Retired Admiral John Hutson, who currently serves as Dean of Franklin Pierce Law School, also recently wrote that "It would be a great tragedy if we didn't take advantage of (the) chance to correct a flawed policy."
In 2003, two retired generals and an admiral 'came out' in the New York Times, and in November 2006 fourteen senior retired military officers urged the First Circuit Court of Appeals to overturn the ban. They wrote that the law "undermines the military's ability to fulfill its primary mission of providing national security by discouraging the enlistment of gay persons qualified to serve their country and by expelling from the military those who have served with honor."
In today's op-ed, General Shalikashvili writes that "Last year I held a number of meetings with gay soldiers and marines, including some with combat experience in Iraq, and an openly gay senior sailor who was serving effectively as a member of a nuclear submarine crew. These conversations showed me just how much the military has changed, and that gays and lesbians can be accepted by their peers."
A December 18th Zogby poll also found that 73% of military personnel polled were comfortable with lesbians and gays.
"General Shalikashvili's statement is the first by a Joint Chiefs Chairman to call for repeal, and as such is enormously significant," said Osburn. "The Pentagon has dismissed more than 11,000 men and women under this law. It is clear that enforcement of 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' is arbitrary. We continue to lose critical personnel who happen to be gay. As General Shalikashvili points out, continuing to keep this law on the books is detrimental to our national security."
Military.com | January 03, 2007
In an op-ed published in Tuesday's New York Times, John M. Shalikashvili, retired Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, says Congress should give "serious reconsideration" to "Don't Ask, Don't Tell," the ban on openly lesbian, gay and bisexual military personnel. Shalikashvili, who supported the ban on open service in 1993, writes that "I now believe that if gay men and lesbians served openly in the United States military, they would not undermine the efficacy of the armed forces," and goes on to say that "Our military has been stretched thin by our deployments in the Middle East, and we must welcome the service of any American who is willing and able to do the job."
"'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' is out of step with both the American public and those within our armed forces," said C. Dixon Osburn, executive director of Servicemembers Legal Defense Network (SLDN). "The counsel of military leaders increasingly supports repeal of the law. Congress must, as General Shalikashvili urges, consider the overwhelming evidence of the past fourteen years. If they do, the clear answer is that we must lift the ban."
Shalikashvili, who was Chairman of the Joint Chiefs from 1993 to 1997, joins other senior retired military officers who have called for repeal of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell." In May 2006, Lieutenant General Claudia Kennedy, USA (Ret.), the first female three-star officer in Army history, called the law "a hollow policy that serves no useful purpose." Lieutenant General Daniel W. Christman, former superintendent of West Point, recently told The New York Times that "It is clear that national attitudes toward this issue have evolved considerably in the last decade. This has been led by a new generation of service members who take a more relaxed and tolerant view toward homosexuality." Retired Admiral John Hutson, who currently serves as Dean of Franklin Pierce Law School, also recently wrote that "It would be a great tragedy if we didn't take advantage of (the) chance to correct a flawed policy."
In 2003, two retired generals and an admiral 'came out' in the New York Times, and in November 2006 fourteen senior retired military officers urged the First Circuit Court of Appeals to overturn the ban. They wrote that the law "undermines the military's ability to fulfill its primary mission of providing national security by discouraging the enlistment of gay persons qualified to serve their country and by expelling from the military those who have served with honor."
In today's op-ed, General Shalikashvili writes that "Last year I held a number of meetings with gay soldiers and marines, including some with combat experience in Iraq, and an openly gay senior sailor who was serving effectively as a member of a nuclear submarine crew. These conversations showed me just how much the military has changed, and that gays and lesbians can be accepted by their peers."
A December 18th Zogby poll also found that 73% of military personnel polled were comfortable with lesbians and gays.
"General Shalikashvili's statement is the first by a Joint Chiefs Chairman to call for repeal, and as such is enormously significant," said Osburn. "The Pentagon has dismissed more than 11,000 men and women under this law. It is clear that enforcement of 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' is arbitrary. We continue to lose critical personnel who happen to be gay. As General Shalikashvili points out, continuing to keep this law on the books is detrimental to our national security."
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...this country is going to hell in a handbasket... 0 -
Hey if carrying a gun and killing terrorists turns them on. I say why not let them. Now don't go thinking that I'm all pro gay 'cause I aint. But if two men want to get it on in private and don't try to make it everybody elses business then it doesn't really do any harm to society. And they will be judged by the allmighty in the end any way. With that being said. I can't stand "gay rights" activists and their parades. They much like minorities are not so special that they deserve more rights than anybody else.
However I have served several gay or lesbian LEO's and they are every bit as effective as a straight one when they behave as professionals. I can't immagine the military being much different.0 -
how many could that really be? 0 -
If you openly accept gays, you are actually accepting two more sexes, gay men and gay women. I don't really have a problem with it except for the showering/latrine and rooms thing. So you either have to make 2 more kinds of latrines: one for gay men and one for gay women, or just have unisex latrines and have everyone use them all. And you have to make two more sets of rooms, one for gay men and one for gay women. Or, again, just have unisex rooms and have everyone sleep all mixed together. 0 -
they are offering 2000 refferal bonuses. I think its just military personnel but civialians might be able to get into it as well. 0 -
Gays, like women, are destructive to unit moral when introduced to a tight-knit group of soldiers because they introduce a level of sexual tension that until recently wasn't seen in combat troops.
I'm not saying that gays or women are any less capable then their counterparts.....what I'm saying is that their presence makes the vast majority of other soldiers (straight males) far less effective.
Small-unit, team oriented training will take a serious hit if this goes into effect0 -
homosexuals are ALLOWED in the military RIGHT NOW. end of story. 0 -
Very true, they are allowed in right now. They just can't openly talk about being gay or have open relationships. The entire "Don't ask don't tell rule" is a farce. And as for it being a new thing, don't think so. The ancient Greeks actually encouraged gay relationships between their soldiers, thinking that the relationships would encourage troop moral and the "partners" would take care of each other in combat. The UK allows openly gay military members and I don't think anyone would say the SAS, SBS, or Royal Marines are a bunch of wimps. 0 -
the american military has done fine for its entire life. do we really need gays to be "open" for a better military ? or is this just an effort among gays to make their lifestyle "acceptable" ? 0 -
Probably don't NEED them to be open, but the policy we have now is just silly. They are allowed to serve honorably until someone finds out they are gay, then we kick them out. That is just stupid and, I might add, very expensive. As it costs a lot of money to train a military person, just to kick them out again. We have kicked out many Arabic speakers, when it was found out they were gay. We really need Arabic speakers. So, either make it that they can't serve at all, or make it so they can serve openly. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by HighVolumeOfFire
Gays, like women, are destructive to unit moral when introduced to a tight-knit group of soldiers because they introduce a level of sexual tension that until recently wasn't seen in combat troops.
I'm not saying that gays or women are any less capable then their counterparts.....what I'm saying is that their presence makes the vast majority of other soldiers (straight males) far less effective.
Small-unit, team oriented training will take a serious hit if this goes into effect
I don't think you are accurate, particularly in the fact that gays have been a part of the US military since its inception. Gays didn't talk about it then, that's all.0 -
When I joined the Army, you were specifically asked if you were gay...and if anyone said yes, they were not allowed to join...Period. End of story. That is the way it should be. 0 -
They wouldnt be good soldiers anyway...dont they limp wrist the weapons? 0 -
You can bet your bottom dollar there have been gays in the SEALS, the Marines, the Special Forces, the Search & Rescue, et al.
So long as they do their job, who gives a rats azz what they do in a bedroom?0 -
quote:Originally posted by HAIRY
You can bet your bottom dollar there have been gays in the SEALS, the Marines, the Special Forces, the Search & Rescue, et al.
So long as they do their job, who gives a rats azz what they do in a bedroom?
See Hairy, there's plenty we agree on. [:D]
Deng Xiaoping once said it doesn't matter whether the cat is black or white, so long as it catches mice.
Chairman Mao's response was to his pragmatism was to accuse him of having "reluctance to embrace the Party fully and wholly" and have him sent to work in a tractor factory.
Once you start dealing with zealots, you can't expect pragmatism and logic to triumph. Many military folk actually consider it a virtue to refuse to change a personal attitude despite fact, logic, and rationality. They'll quote you "perception is reality", flip you the bird, and continue believing the Earth is flat and Iraq is full of WMDs.0
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