Inflated Shipping (& Handling???) Charges
A Sunday morning full-blown but general rant here.
No matter what auction site you visit, the popular "game" among some sellers is to list the item with a really attractive lowball Buy-It-Now price to whet the prospective buyer's appetite, seal the deal, keep the auction fee as low as is possible, and then make up the difference on absurd Shipping charges. The concept of a "handling" charge is an even bigger joke. What? Sticking the item in a padded envelope or a FREE USPS Priority Mail box is arduous? A day's work? The seller had to hire more help to do it?
Case in point:
No mention of what auction site, actual item or seller here so as to protect the rights of the gonif. (Pronounced "gone-iff"; a Yiddish expression for "crook", "thief", "flim-flam man", etc. who in this case is the seller)
A very small hollow plastic gun accessory, much smaller than the average man's pinky finger and about as heavy as a nickel coin comes packaged in a small soft plastic baggie with a very minimal paper header stapled to it. This item sells generally for between $6 and $9 with S&H between $1.50 (USPS First Class) and $4.55 (Priority). This one seller lists his for $3 B-I-N with a $7.95 S&H fee!
So, the auction site apparently condones this practice - perhaps quietly encourages it? - and settles for a lot smaller fee when the sale is made. Why allow it? Why encourage sellers to use S&H as a profit center? Are actual business people running these sites or are they all Northeast liberals? {sarcasm} Suggestion: Modify the rules governing listings and transactions to prevent as much of this as is possible. And, yes, I have repeatedly complained to other auction sites about this as well.
I've noticed in actual gun auction or classified site listings across the internet that some FFL gun sellers can ship a handgun to any other FFL for $12 while a private seller has to charge much more, say as much as $25 or $30. Understandable if a private individual has to use a local packaging and shipping service for UPS or pay for USPS Next Day Delivery. But I've also noticed some very busy FFL's with lots of transactions charging what I feel are exhorbitant S&H charges on guns that are priced below the going retail price. $35 to ship a Kel-Tec P3AT or a 442 S&W via Priority Mail from one FFL to another FFL? Puh-leeze!!!
So, no matter what your position or take on this practice, I systematically avoid any and all sellers - regardless of the item or the auction site - who use S&H as a profit center.
The best line of BS I've heard to-date is when this one historically lowball seller who lives "way out in the sticks" (his own words) told me in no uncertain terms that he charges $5.00 Handling on his items in addition to the Shipping cahrge and only ships out once a week because he has to drive a considerable distance to a local US Post Office. The $5 Handling fee - on every package - goes towards offsetting the cost of fuel and his time. Uh, I may look stupid at times and even sound stupid at other times but the USPS - the same folks who deliver the mail to you - can also pick up from you or another drop-off point if you call ahead and make arrangements, especially if it's only once a week.
Judging by this seller's feedback - which also tells me his sale dates - he ships 25 to 30 packages a week. Nice work if you can get it - no? $125 to $150 for fuel and time?
Sorry, but that's a tidy little side income there. And a loss for the auction site. Plus, it erroneously creates the impression that he's cheaper than the others on the site who list the same items. No secret that bidders are notoriously negligent in reading the full listing and the S&H terms.
BTW, I been buying and selling regularly on another auction site for over six years now and have shipped items as large as entire computers, monitors, etc. to all parts of the U.S.A. including Alaska. And I do buy some boxes locally and also packing peanuts and tape and bubble mailers. I know what shipping supplies cost and how much of it goes into each carton or mailer I've shipped out. Never, ever, ever came close to the $5.00 mark - not even for a 63 lb. item that was securely packed and then overpacked in an oversized carton.
Okay, I'm done ranting. Phew!
Enjoy your Sunday!!!
No matter what auction site you visit, the popular "game" among some sellers is to list the item with a really attractive lowball Buy-It-Now price to whet the prospective buyer's appetite, seal the deal, keep the auction fee as low as is possible, and then make up the difference on absurd Shipping charges. The concept of a "handling" charge is an even bigger joke. What? Sticking the item in a padded envelope or a FREE USPS Priority Mail box is arduous? A day's work? The seller had to hire more help to do it?
Case in point:
No mention of what auction site, actual item or seller here so as to protect the rights of the gonif. (Pronounced "gone-iff"; a Yiddish expression for "crook", "thief", "flim-flam man", etc. who in this case is the seller)
A very small hollow plastic gun accessory, much smaller than the average man's pinky finger and about as heavy as a nickel coin comes packaged in a small soft plastic baggie with a very minimal paper header stapled to it. This item sells generally for between $6 and $9 with S&H between $1.50 (USPS First Class) and $4.55 (Priority). This one seller lists his for $3 B-I-N with a $7.95 S&H fee!
So, the auction site apparently condones this practice - perhaps quietly encourages it? - and settles for a lot smaller fee when the sale is made. Why allow it? Why encourage sellers to use S&H as a profit center? Are actual business people running these sites or are they all Northeast liberals? {sarcasm} Suggestion: Modify the rules governing listings and transactions to prevent as much of this as is possible. And, yes, I have repeatedly complained to other auction sites about this as well.
I've noticed in actual gun auction or classified site listings across the internet that some FFL gun sellers can ship a handgun to any other FFL for $12 while a private seller has to charge much more, say as much as $25 or $30. Understandable if a private individual has to use a local packaging and shipping service for UPS or pay for USPS Next Day Delivery. But I've also noticed some very busy FFL's with lots of transactions charging what I feel are exhorbitant S&H charges on guns that are priced below the going retail price. $35 to ship a Kel-Tec P3AT or a 442 S&W via Priority Mail from one FFL to another FFL? Puh-leeze!!!
So, no matter what your position or take on this practice, I systematically avoid any and all sellers - regardless of the item or the auction site - who use S&H as a profit center.
The best line of BS I've heard to-date is when this one historically lowball seller who lives "way out in the sticks" (his own words) told me in no uncertain terms that he charges $5.00 Handling on his items in addition to the Shipping cahrge and only ships out once a week because he has to drive a considerable distance to a local US Post Office. The $5 Handling fee - on every package - goes towards offsetting the cost of fuel and his time. Uh, I may look stupid at times and even sound stupid at other times but the USPS - the same folks who deliver the mail to you - can also pick up from you or another drop-off point if you call ahead and make arrangements, especially if it's only once a week.
Judging by this seller's feedback - which also tells me his sale dates - he ships 25 to 30 packages a week. Nice work if you can get it - no? $125 to $150 for fuel and time?
Sorry, but that's a tidy little side income there. And a loss for the auction site. Plus, it erroneously creates the impression that he's cheaper than the others on the site who list the same items. No secret that bidders are notoriously negligent in reading the full listing and the S&H terms.
BTW, I been buying and selling regularly on another auction site for over six years now and have shipped items as large as entire computers, monitors, etc. to all parts of the U.S.A. including Alaska. And I do buy some boxes locally and also packing peanuts and tape and bubble mailers. I know what shipping supplies cost and how much of it goes into each carton or mailer I've shipped out. Never, ever, ever came close to the $5.00 mark - not even for a 63 lb. item that was securely packed and then overpacked in an oversized carton.
Okay, I'm done ranting. Phew!
Enjoy your Sunday!!!
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These are unscrupulous and dishonorable people.
Doug0 -
I had to decide what to do when starting to sell on another auction site. If I am selling single (one time) items every once in a while it is easy to do actual shipping quotes to each person that asks. We started selling many similar items several times a week and had to come up with a good way to ship. Depending on where the package is going it has cost between $6 and $13 to ship including packaging so we have gone to a flat rate of $9 for shipping. On some itmes it seems a little high but it works. I feel bad for those that only cost $6 to ship but it is very hard to quote many shipping prices many times that will only save a couple bucks. I am not using it as a way to make money, just a way to come out even.
If there is a better way I would like to know.0 -
If you think they are charging to much then dont bid. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Nwcid
I had to decide what to do when starting to sell on another auction site. If I am selling single (one time) items every once in a while it is easy to do actual shipping quotes to each person that asks. We started selling many similar items several times a week and had to come up with a good way to ship. Depending on where the package is going it has cost between $6 and $13 to ship including packaging so we have gone to a flat rate of $9 for shipping. On some itmes it seems a little high but it works. I feel bad for those that only cost $6 to ship but it is very hard to quote many shipping prices many times that will only save a couple bucks. I am not using it as a way to make money, just a way to come out even.
If there is a better way I would like to know.
I don't have a problem with a seller stating upfront that he or she has only one flat Shipping fee and honoring it. That can work for or against the buyer on a case-by-case basis.
But the bone of contention, for me at least, is when the B-I-N price of the item is deliberately low-balled to where the excess on the shipping - above and beyond the actual - somehow "magically" offsets the difference between his or her B-I-N price and the current going market price.
That practice IMO makes S&H a profit center for that particular seller AND it also defrauds the auction site of the correct fee to which it's entitled and which the seller agreed to pay.0 -
quote:Originally posted by e3mrk
If you think they are charging to much then dont bid.
You'll notice in my long-winded rant where I stated that I don't patronize sellers who play such games.0 -
It depends also on who is doing the shipping.
U.P.S wanted about $75.00 to ship a Hand Gun to another Licensed Collector and the U.S. Post Office only charged $13.00 for the same item.including insurance and a signed receipt from the Buyer.
So just who is ripping off Who?0 -
quote:Originally posted by e3mrk
It depends also on who is doing the shipping.
U.P.S wanted about $75.00 to ship a Hand Gun to another Licensed Collector and the U.S. Post Office only charged $13.00 for the same item.including insurance and a signed receipt from the Buyer.
So just who is ripping off Who?
I thought it was illegal to ship handguns via USPS unless you are an 01 FFL?0 -
With me...I charge a "ball park" of what I think it will cost. I have NO IDEA what it actually will be. So I throw the rest of the charge onto insurance. Only once has there been anyone fuss about my charges...but I really think there are some people who wonder around looking for a "fuss" and he was one of THOSE.
I guess $20 on most auctions....and $35 for a rifle with a scope size item. The "stuff" auctions I ALWAYS loose money on shipping. I never can guess what the charge should be and I tend to go too low. The only person who has been upset by that is my better half....no complaints by others who should have had to pay more!!!!
(hmmmmmm...I wonder why)0 -
When I listed the foil bowler hats I set the shipping at an outrageous price. I didn't intend to sell them, I wanted to be able to link to the auction as a joke.
The first set that sold ($20 shipping) the bidder asked me to mash them flat into an envelope and just charge actual costs. I said it wouldn't bother me a bit to eat the listing/final value fees and just forget about it. He insisted on following through and did send me the $21.25 for the pair of hats. When I mailed them I insured them for $50 as "foil artwork"
Believe it or not I sold another one for one cent + $15 shipping. The guy paid me with cash.0 -
Locust Fork, you are most definitely NOT the type of seller I refer to. I have nothing but respect for you and for many others who conduct business here on GB and other sites.
Shipping handguns and rifles and even ammunition has to be a different and more complex, expensive animal than shipping out accessories, holsters, magazines and such. Understood. Insuring shipments isn't cheap either. But charging a Priority Mail rate for what turns out to be a small brown parts envelope with one 39-cent First Class stamp on it isn't cricket either as they say.0 -
I had a guy do that to me a year ago. I bought a Galil hand guard used off of him and he charged me $8.00 for shipping. When I got the product I noticed he only paid $3.55 to ship it to me. When I asked him about it he said he had to make money somehow because I had gotten the item at such a cheap price. But yes I will pay an extra buck or two if the person says he had to buy a box or something reasonable. But if someone is making an extra $4 or $5 or more than that is theft in my opinion. I have sold things on GB and a couple times I quoted too low and I ate the extra shipping charges instead of asking for more money. 0 -
I know Slow Hand...the shipping mess seems to be a "trend" started over on e-flay. I had a picture arrive that we had paid $7 shipping and it was bent in half when it arrived. It had only cost them a couple of dollars at the most to ship it to us and the paper envelope was a little "thin" to make up for the added charge. I sent a message to them letting them know how it had arrived....without fussing...(which you guys KNOW was hard for me) and they made things right.
We just have to stay on top of these things and let people know when we are not happpy about things. That is the only way things will get better.0 -
It's called "Fee Avoidance" as well as theft.
Most auction companies do not condone it.
I've seen a 22 rifle listed at $1 with a shipping charge of $150.
Rather obvious.
What are the "end of auction" fees for $1 compared to $150?
Hmmmmm....0 -
boo hoo. buy from whoever is cheapest overall, or not at all, or pay extra and get free shipping 0 -
Want cheese?
Move on and buy from someone else.
This topic repeats itself almost monthly.0 -
I don't sell that much but when I do I keep the shipping low. Most times I get higher bids so it works out in the wash. I charged 12.00 insured priorty USPS on a long gun and if it goes to the west coast it costs around 25-30 bucks depending on the cost of insurance. Soooo, that's just the way it tis. [:D] 0 -
That may indicate that there are a bunch of potential buyers who can see through the rip off schemes, and don't want to be taken advantage of.
Perhaps, if treated fairly, those buyers would buy more.
Doug0 -
If you look where the item is located and you are close to them, you can call or wirte them and they may change their shipping charges. Some buyers get scared when they dont see any shipping charges so the buyers try to put some kind of shippng price on their item, but they have to cover their ass if their item sells and it has to be shipped 2000+ miles away. 0 -
...when I buy anything, I check out what the other shippers are charging for the same/similar item; find some BIG differences in ship/handling I tell you!
...I have some buyers I do regular business with because their fair with their shipping. I NEVER buy from these bozo's that are charging 2-3-5 times what the shipping should be.
...I just bought a reduced power main spring...paid a little over $2 bucks shipping, plenty fair; it would mail with one stamp, maybe TWO.
...some jerk wanted $9.95 to ship the same spring..Ha ha ha ha....[^]
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quote:Originally posted by pickenup
It's called "Fee Avoidance" as well as theft.
Most auction companies do not condone it.
I've seen a 22 rifle listed at $1 with a shipping charge of $150.
Rather obvious.
What are the "end of auction" fees for $1 compared to $150?
Hmmmmm....
Exactly!
And, if the deal doesn't work out as originally thought, and if the buyer seeks to ship it back for a refund, how's he or she going to feel when the buyer gets back only $1.00 from the seller, i.e. the usual disclaimer that "S&H fees are not refundable"? So, in theory, it will cost the buyer even MORE money out of pocket to return the item so as to get back the $1.00. It's a clever way to circumvent auction fees, PayPal fees (for whoever accepts it) AND refund amounts! That's IMO a scam. That's IMO fraudulent.
While "to each his own" is still the deciding factor, I think that the buyer has to wonder what the fair market value of the item is versus any perceived savings that are then offset by non-refundable and deliberately inflated S&H charges.
BTW folks - I'm not griping about a couple of extra dollars here or there for S&H on high ticket or large items. I think we all know full well what is a shrewd game versus the cost of doing legitimate business.
Pax vobiscum.0 -
I was looking at some reloading junk in Ebarf, guys price was 30 bucks, with a $50 dollar shipping fee.I can ship most small things for no more than 8 bucks max.. Can you Say GREED... 0 -
On most non firearms sales I charge a flat 5.00 shipping and combine any I can into 1 package So if you buy one item or 10, if I can they all ship together for the one shipping charge. As for handling charges if you do not think a trip to the post office does not cost money you haven't bought gas in a while. A lot of people work and can only get to the PO on lunch break or take time off of their real jobs to do it. Does this not deserve compensation? Now given some sellers do pad the costs a lot but packing and supplies do cost money. So yes some sellers do add to their profit in the shipping charges but not as many or as much as you think. There is always some one who goes overboard on the greed side and all you can do is not use their services. 0 -
If I don't like what someone is charging for shipping, I just pass on the item and move on or figure the shipping price into what I'm willing to bid on the item.
[:(][:(]
Kind of like if you don't like what's on TV... change the channel.
[:)][:)]0
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