Marine's Gripe About 'War Crimes'
In response to the news blurb about the Marine who put two rounds in a wounded insurgent's head in Fallujah, here's a response from another Marine:
It's a safety issue pure and simple. After assaulting through a target, we put a security round in everybody's head. Sorry al-Reuters, there's no paddy wagon rolling around Fallujah picking up "prisoners" and offering them a hot cup a joe, falafel, and a blanket. There's no time to dick around on the target. You clear the space, dump the chumps, and moveon.org.
Are Corpsman expected to treat wounded terrorists? Negative. Hey libs, worried about the defense budget? Well, it would be waste, fraud, and abuse for a Corpsman to expend one man-minute or a battle dressing on a terrorist.
Its much cheaper to just spend the $.02 on a 5.56mm FMJ. By the way, in our view, terrorists who chop off civilian's heads are not prisoners, they are carcasses. Chopping off a civilian's head is another reason why these idiots are known as "unlawful combatants." It seems that most of the world's journalists have forgotten that fact.
Let me be very clear about this issue. I have looked around the web, and many people get this concept, but there are some stragglers. Here is your situation Marine: You just took fire from unlawful combatants (no uniform - breaking every Geneva Convention rule there is) shooting from a religious building attempting to use the sanctuary status of their position as protection. But you're in Fallujah now, and the Marine Corps has decided that they're not playing that game this time. That was Najaf. So you set the mosque on fire and you hose down the terrorists with small arms, launch some AT-4s (Rockets), some 40MM grenades into the building and things quiet down. So you run over there, and find some tangos (bad guys) wounded and pretending to be dead. You are aware that suicide martyrdom is like really popular with these idiots, and they think taking some Marines with them would be really cool. So you can either risk your life and your fire team's lives by having them cover you while you bend down and search a guy that you think is pretending to be dead for some reason. Most of the time these are the guys with the grenade or vest made of explosives. Also, you don't know who or what is in the next room. You're already speaking English to the rest of your fire team or squad which lets the terrorist know you are there and you are his enemy. You are speaking loud because your hearing is poor from shooting people for several days. So you know that there are many other rooms to enter, and that if anyone is still alive in those rooms, they know that Americans are in the mosque. Meanwhile (3 seconds later), you still have this terrorist (that was just shooting at you from a mosque) playing possum. What do you do? You double tap his head, and you go to the next room, that's what!!!
What about the Geneva Convention and all that Law of Land Warfare stuff? What about it? Without even addressing the issues at hand, your first thought should be, "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6." Bear in mind that this tactic of double tapping a fallen terrorist is a perpetual mindset that is reinforced by experience on a minute by minute basis. Secondly, you are fighting an unlawful combatant in a Sanctuary, which is a double No-No on his part. Third, tactically you are in no position to take "prisoners" because there are more rooms to search and clear, and the behavior of said terrorist indicates that he is up to no good. No good in Fallujah is a very large place and the low end of no
good and the high end of no good are fundamentally the same.Marines end up getting hurt or die. So, there is no compelling reason for you to do anything but double tap this idiot and get on with the mission.
If you are a veteran, then everything I have just written is self evident. If you are not a veteran, then at least try to put yourself in the situation. Remember, in Fallujah there is no yesterday, there is no tomorrow, there is only now. Right NOW. Have you ever lived in NOW for a week? It is really, really not easy. If you have never lived in NOW for longer than it takes to finish the big roller coaster at Six Flags, then shut your hole about putting Marines in jail for "War Crimes".
Froggy OUT.
It's a safety issue pure and simple. After assaulting through a target, we put a security round in everybody's head. Sorry al-Reuters, there's no paddy wagon rolling around Fallujah picking up "prisoners" and offering them a hot cup a joe, falafel, and a blanket. There's no time to dick around on the target. You clear the space, dump the chumps, and moveon.org.
Are Corpsman expected to treat wounded terrorists? Negative. Hey libs, worried about the defense budget? Well, it would be waste, fraud, and abuse for a Corpsman to expend one man-minute or a battle dressing on a terrorist.
Its much cheaper to just spend the $.02 on a 5.56mm FMJ. By the way, in our view, terrorists who chop off civilian's heads are not prisoners, they are carcasses. Chopping off a civilian's head is another reason why these idiots are known as "unlawful combatants." It seems that most of the world's journalists have forgotten that fact.
Let me be very clear about this issue. I have looked around the web, and many people get this concept, but there are some stragglers. Here is your situation Marine: You just took fire from unlawful combatants (no uniform - breaking every Geneva Convention rule there is) shooting from a religious building attempting to use the sanctuary status of their position as protection. But you're in Fallujah now, and the Marine Corps has decided that they're not playing that game this time. That was Najaf. So you set the mosque on fire and you hose down the terrorists with small arms, launch some AT-4s (Rockets), some 40MM grenades into the building and things quiet down. So you run over there, and find some tangos (bad guys) wounded and pretending to be dead. You are aware that suicide martyrdom is like really popular with these idiots, and they think taking some Marines with them would be really cool. So you can either risk your life and your fire team's lives by having them cover you while you bend down and search a guy that you think is pretending to be dead for some reason. Most of the time these are the guys with the grenade or vest made of explosives. Also, you don't know who or what is in the next room. You're already speaking English to the rest of your fire team or squad which lets the terrorist know you are there and you are his enemy. You are speaking loud because your hearing is poor from shooting people for several days. So you know that there are many other rooms to enter, and that if anyone is still alive in those rooms, they know that Americans are in the mosque. Meanwhile (3 seconds later), you still have this terrorist (that was just shooting at you from a mosque) playing possum. What do you do? You double tap his head, and you go to the next room, that's what!!!
What about the Geneva Convention and all that Law of Land Warfare stuff? What about it? Without even addressing the issues at hand, your first thought should be, "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6." Bear in mind that this tactic of double tapping a fallen terrorist is a perpetual mindset that is reinforced by experience on a minute by minute basis. Secondly, you are fighting an unlawful combatant in a Sanctuary, which is a double No-No on his part. Third, tactically you are in no position to take "prisoners" because there are more rooms to search and clear, and the behavior of said terrorist indicates that he is up to no good. No good in Fallujah is a very large place and the low end of no
good and the high end of no good are fundamentally the same.Marines end up getting hurt or die. So, there is no compelling reason for you to do anything but double tap this idiot and get on with the mission.
If you are a veteran, then everything I have just written is self evident. If you are not a veteran, then at least try to put yourself in the situation. Remember, in Fallujah there is no yesterday, there is no tomorrow, there is only now. Right NOW. Have you ever lived in NOW for a week? It is really, really not easy. If you have never lived in NOW for longer than it takes to finish the big roller coaster at Six Flags, then shut your hole about putting Marines in jail for "War Crimes".
Froggy OUT.
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Another great post, Zip. The typical mopping-up process should never change. 0 -
Right on! 0 -
Just too bad we got all that garbage in Washington and the Pentagon that have no clue to the above facts.... 0 -
Well said...and dead on! 0 -
This should be mandatory reading for every liberal bleeding heart in the country.........right on..!!
crims400 -
This was standard operating procedure for Marines in the Pacific in WW2.
In the first few battles, Marines would move in close to a surrendering Jap, motion for him to get his arms up, and a grenade would fall out from his armpit, killing prisoner as well as Marine.
Or, a Jap would be laying on his stomach, moaning. He may not have actually been wounded. When the Marine rolled him over, he pulled the pin on the grenade.
I have seen four or five Marines on tv telling of how they put a stop to it: A shot to the head for every wounded Jap.0 -
SOP 0 -
Why not? I mean, he gets all them ugly virgins when he gets to the other side, right? Seems like doing him a favor. 0 -
i agree with the above. kinda...
NJRETCOP has a DVD where I/we is "featured" on that particular invasion....
for who are interested, goto historychannel.com and find shootout:battle of fallujah. if you've been here long enough, you know my name and unit....im on the video..0 -
Being someone that has never served in the armed forces, that sounds like common sense 0 -
Great Post.
I never thought it out this way.
My thoughts were that our military folks were the good guys, doing a really tough job, and that when in doubt, they should shoot first and we should give them the benefit of the doubt.
I have often said that I really hate taxes but I won't whine if it buys technology to keep our military safer and bring them home, safely to their families sooner or gives them a pay raise.0 -
Think about Vietnam. Suppose you were there, and a little kid came running up to a group of your buddies, pulled the pin on a grenade, and BOOM, no more buddies.
Next time you see a little kid come running, what do you do?0 -
double tap tap away
nice post
stay safe come home soon0 -
It is very hard for social progressives to understand the concept of "FEAR". They live a sheltered life in the big city protected by conservatives that put themselves in harms way even though they are scared. They do the right thing, Cindy Sheean and her commie friends don't have a clue about the price paid for freedom.
Good Post Mr. Zip!0 -
quote:Originally posted by nunn
Think about Vietnam. Suppose you were there, and a little kid came running up to a group of your buddies, pulled the pin on a grenade, and BOOM, no more buddies.
Next time you see a little kid come running, what do you do?
Waste em'..., No second Thought!0 -
It's real easy for those who have never been in combat or a firefight to try to tell a soldier where he is wrong or try to be his moral judge. In these situations, it's kill the enemy as long as they are a danger to you, and if they're still wiggling, they're still a danger. If you don't like it, don't join and keep your uninformed opinion to your self!
This man is right on!0 -
quote:Originally posted by dheffley
It's real easy for those who have never been in combat or a firefight to try to tell a soldier where he is wrong or try to be his moral judge. In these situations, it's kill the enemy as long as they are a danger to you, and if they're still wiggling, they're still a danger. If you don't like it, don't join and keep your uninformed opinion to your self!
This man is right on!
Amen Danny!0 -
Travis was mad as hell the other day. He was out on a convoy, on point, and noticed some "suspicious personnel movement" up ahead. He notified his convoy commander, who then requested permission to investigate. Permission was denied, and they were ordered to continue with the primary mission. Turned out the people they saw were bad guys, and they laid a bomb and hurt some other GIs and got clean away. 0 -
Bad business.[V] 0 -
Remember when CNN made the huge stink about the video that showed Marines in a fire fight with terrorists and the Marine rilfeman shoot a terrorist about 100 yeards away. Then as the terrorist was still trying to move for his gun the Marines shot him.....and then cheered. CNN just thought it was SOOOO barbaric for a person to "cheer" after saving his own life. This is combat folks, you have the RIGHT to be HAPPY after saving your own life from a TERRORIST who is trying to KILL YOU !!!! What do these liberal tree huggers think war is like ? 0 -
Screw CNN. 0 -
personally i think i would overlook just about anything an american service member did in combat as long as it was combat related. i cant believe how our media and military police are treating america soldiers who are facing a war and enemy like we have never seen before. whatever the soldiers have to do to get home alive i'll support them in it. 0 -
I would never expect neither freedom fighters nor aggressive occupying armies to have much mercy on each other. Trying to assign rules to something as chaotic as war is just ridiculous.
By the way, there is evidence the mentioned beheadings were orchestrated by agents of the united states:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/archive_berg.html
Zarqawi is also an agent of the U.S:
http://prisonplanet.com/archives/al-zarqawi/index.html
Wake up folks!0 -
Some of the Marine grunts in the NAM would carry around a sun cured finger or ear of the dead enemy. Usually such body parts would be from a VC or NVA soldier known to have killed one's bud(dies). Sometimes these items were worn on a necklace under the utility jacket, but many of them were carried in the pockets. 0 -
Geneva Convention is poop any way. Countries are going to torture and what not anyway, if they think you have info. And especially the War at hand now its definitely not worth the paper it was written on. 0 -
where's Hairy to set us all straight on this issue and how it's all Bush's fault? 0 -
Mr. Cool,
Where do you get off saying the Military Police are treating america soldiers who are facing a war and enemy like we have never seen before.
The MP's are in the same fight everone else is in. Don't forget it was MP's who got fried for the first round of Enemy Prisnor of War crimes if you recall the frat-house hazing of the prisnor tangos, and the pictures that were taking of them.
Trinity +++0 -
The only addition I would make is to also double tap the CNN reporter that has his nose and camera firmly planted up our Marine Corp.'s butts because they think we need to record all of this. 0 -
You can't trust the typical reporter in the combat zone. The pictures and stories they will send home will show a lop sided view of the truth. 0
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