Are Gun shows going down hill?
After I posted about the Indy 1500 Show http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=228934 I thought I would start this as a separate topic.
The Fort Wayne show last weekend was crap. [V] If I could have gotten my $10 ($4 parking & $6 for the show) back the moment I walked 2 feet in the door after seeing how few tables they had I would have. Midwest Gun Exchange from Mishawaka, they have had the green tables, was not there. They didn't have anyone with any kind of quantity of reloading stuff. I was wanting to get primers and when I buy them I like to buy 5000 or so at a time. I was looking for a RRA's AR-15. I only found 5 or 6 AR's and only 1 was a RRA and it was used and old.
I wanted some ammo cans and all they had where 4 old beat-up ones.
I don't think I'll be going back again. [:(!] [V]
I think that the Internet may be the reason that the shows have been going down hill over the past years. It used to be that if you wanted to find stuff you had to go a Gun Show if your local shop didn't have it. Now you can find stuff at auctions and on-line stores.
The Fort Wayne show last weekend was crap. [V] If I could have gotten my $10 ($4 parking & $6 for the show) back the moment I walked 2 feet in the door after seeing how few tables they had I would have. Midwest Gun Exchange from Mishawaka, they have had the green tables, was not there. They didn't have anyone with any kind of quantity of reloading stuff. I was wanting to get primers and when I buy them I like to buy 5000 or so at a time. I was looking for a RRA's AR-15. I only found 5 or 6 AR's and only 1 was a RRA and it was used and old.
I wanted some ammo cans and all they had where 4 old beat-up ones.
I don't think I'll be going back again. [:(!] [V]
I think that the Internet may be the reason that the shows have been going down hill over the past years. It used to be that if you wanted to find stuff you had to go a Gun Show if your local shop didn't have it. Now you can find stuff at auctions and on-line stores.
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Gun Shows have turned into a dealers week end gun shop. The inflated prices, the jerky, t-shirt, and jewelry vendors, have turned them into a joke around here. No one wants to trade (fairly) [:(]anymore, all after the almighty dollar. [:0] 0 -
Classic095, + 1. Also I've noticed a big decline in pre-owned firearms over the years. I think auctions like GB have a lot to do with that. The guns are still out there, the market place has changed. Still it's better to be able to see and handle a piece if you're spending a lot for a used firearm. 0 -
Same thing here. Almost no handguns, really since Brady.
They're more of a flea market now, like Classic said.
I haven't been to one in over a year though.0 -
I forgot, South Bend Chocolate Company was not even there. I love their Chocolate cover peanuts. [:D] [8D] [^] 0 -
I limit my trips to gun shows down to once a year or so. They've gone way, way downhill. What used to be stocked with tables and tables of guns, gun parts, as well as some greatly discounted ammo has now been replaced with higher-than-store priced guns, few decent used guns, t-shirts, beef jerky, Native American art, political campaigns, etc. They're a pain in the butt to get to, and I don't like spending $6.00 at the door just so I can get annoyed at what I see.
These days, the only reason I head to the gun show is to sell something that I don't want to have to deal with on the 'Net. I offer fair prices and I normally am cleaned out by the time I'm ready to leave.
This is for the Denver area, but it seems to be a trend around the country.0 -
FWIW, check our your local army surplus store if you want ammo cans. The one I deal with is VERY fair on their pricing and has stacks and stacks of them in stock. 0 -
I can't help but wonder if the instant check system is contributing to the decline.
It used to be that the waiting period was waived for a permit holder. I get delayed every time even when making a purchase just 2 weeks after a previous check.
I might be able to make it to the 1500 on Sunday morning, not sure yet.0 -
The Law, particularly ATF, have had a negative effect on the quality of the shows. These dealers are paranoid in the extreme, and for good reason. I know several smaller dealers that were straight up guys that have quit the shows over the last few years because of their fear of the law. I was at a show in Belleville Ill. last year and I have a little memo book to take notes with and while doing so was asked by a dealer if I was a "Fed"! 0 -
They have definitely declined. There is guys there that have the same junk charging the same high price. Ive seen specific items that havent sold for years. Its really not worth going to fight the dirty crowd, pay 10-15 bucks (entry fee, gas, parking). Then they want to charge you the same if not more than a new gun for a used gun. Some deals can be had, and if your looking to browse its a good place to go. But the best these guys can do a purchase, is to not charge tax. I have found one guy who circuits MI gun shows, His store is RANDYS. And this guy is usually 30-70 dollars cheaper then any new gun you can find in any store. I asked him why are you cheaper then most of these guys, he said they try to tell volume. I think thats what more dealers need to do. But your going to get some dealers on here whining about what it cost them etc. But I dont think they will find the sympathy here. Just dont deal then. 0 -
Yup, they are going down hill. 0 -
I went to the show in Birminham,AL this week end. There were plenty of used guns for sale. Also reloading material. It cost $7 to get in. I did find a used 80 series stainless 1911 frame that I bought from a gunsmith that I deal with frequently at a reasonable price. I have been looking for a deal on a frame to build another 1911 on. I have had all the other parts for awhile. 0 -
to add that to that to prove they are over priced, is I dont see the buying like i used to. I remember every table had to or three people waiting to get there papers filled out 0 -
Thinking nothing is as good as it used to be is just an indication you are getting older. Nothing was ever as good as it used to be, you were just new to it then, and dazzled by the bright lights. 0 -
If I need socks, jerky or a beanine baby I head to the gun shows in the area....[;)] If I really need something, I head to one of three shops I normally do business with. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by He Dog
Thinking nothing is as good as it used to be is just an indication you are getting older. Nothing was ever as good as it used to be, you were just new to it then, and dazzled by the bright lights.
LOL He Dog,
In this case, I gotta disagree. There was a time when a gun show was special and deals could be had, you could haggle with the sellers, you could find items that you needed, etc.
There are less gun dealers and more schlock dealers now at these shows. Nobody is interested in haggling, and it is difficult if not impossible to find parts and (for why I used to go), great prices on bulk ammo.0 -
Ditto on the Beanie Babbies!!
Yep the past 10 yrs, the shows appear to be losing, I would say 5% of the gun vendors a year.
At least thats what it looks like in OKC.
Some of the shows are total jokes, last one had about 30 tables.
A waste of gas, much less the $6 entry fee.0 -
Well, I don't know guys, last gun show I was at, Wundudnee added three nice old rifles to his collection, and we now have over 200 beanie babies. Sounds like success at a good show to me. I did have to drive over 500 miles to get there. I do still find fair buys (not super bargains, not stealing anything) at shows on things like Savage 99s. Then again, being a young guy, I don't remember going to gunshows in the '70s, only been about 17 years for me. 0 -
I too have noticed a big decline in the numbers of vendors and sellers/buyers at our gun shows. I do think the high cost of entrance and parking is driving folks away. I don't go nearly as often anymore.
The parking used to be free now it is jacked up to 6 bucks or more, they don't stamp your hand and let you come back for the other days you have to pay for each day. Cost of entrance is up there pretty high. It angers people to pay for sellers to market their products.
One of our larger dealers gives a good price on his new guns but the rest of the stuff appears to be very high priced. Reloaded ammo is priced so high its silly!
I have noticed a strong police presence and I think there is a lot of subtle pressure to put the shows out of business. The number of FFL's are dropping each year and thats not an accident.0 -
Well it is a little different here. Private sales make up at least 1/2 of the tables. I have picked up fine firearms for good low prices. 0 -
Geez ! , did we have a bad week-end or what ...and Yes the Gun Shows are not what they where years ago ...I can remember when I was in school and my Dad had a shop , we went to several 'shows' , both as walk-ins and as dealers (set-up w-tables),and later when I first had my shop (ffl) we (I) went to shows on a rel regular basis , and there are some differences then and now ... But I still go when I can (if only to walk around and LOOK)...Why whine about this , do someting to make changes (positive) in the shows ...
Thanks !!!
d.a.stearns
Gunsmith / LEO
Niota , Tn0 -
quote:Originally posted by abcguns2
Why whine about this , do someting to make changes (positive) in the shows ...
Thanks !!!
d.a.stearns
Gunsmith / LEO
Niota , Tn
Ok, what can we do?0 -
What can we do? Stop going. I would suggest talking to dealers and voicing your concerns, but, that would be like trying to have a civil discussion in the Politics forum. 0 -
What i don't like is me being young (early 20's), cause people wont deal with you, they think cause where young we'll pay what the price says. It's stupid, and they think we don't know what we are talking about.
Also, its higher prices for used guns. i mean i was looking for a shotgun at a show or two ago, and the guy wanted about 30$ above the new price of the shotgun i could get in the area, and this is a used gun keep in mind. i told the guy he's crazy and said he was about 30$ over what a new gun would cost me. he just kept going with his sales pitch.
But i did almost buy a used Semi Auto-Browning shotgun. it was just a tad over what i wanted to pay for a gun that day, but at a reasonable price, not only that the guy was willing to deal. Guess you have to walk around, and just talk to find a good dealer there but it seems more work nowadays. People don't want to trade, deal, makes me wounder why they are there.0 -
They are there to sell guns. Nothing says they have to sell at your price, and nothing says they have to be willing to dicker their prices.
These days also it seems that if gunshow goers can't buy it below wholesale, they think it is a rip off.0 -
Buying at a decent price is a lot different than buying at 100 bucks over normal retail.[:(] Dealers here put Phoenix .22s out for 225.00, and Davis derringers out at 189.00 Both wholesale at under 100 bucks.Same used Glocks I can get at CDNN for 350.00 the show dealers want 500 or more. 0 -
I haven't been to a gun show in at least 6 years, so I don't know what they've been like lately; all I have to add is the perception that there was usually enough stuff so that even with higher prices, it was worth it if you wanted to do your one-stop-shopping and save gas and time from running all over town. and it was a good social event. but now with online auctions, any day of the week you feel like it you can get on the computer and instantly have 100x the selecion to choose form that you can at any gun show, search for stuff and browse 10x faster, buy something and have it delivered to your mailbox, and you didn't have to even leave your house. furthermore, people must be more interested in saving a buck and less interested in socializing.
so I'd concur that it's due to the internet.0 -
last show I attended, there were still plenty of $300 AK's. Is that a good sign? Not too many SKS's though... plenty of AR's there was a guy walking around with a used complete AR-15 for $500 and it took him a few hours to sell it! I would have bought it but had less than half that and was holding out for one of those rare rhodesian FAL folding stocks. 0 -
The internet has changed most of it. I have bought the majority of my best deals while sitting at home. I do keep going to the gun shows but seems I find no buys like I used to. I usually can find everything that I want and more here on the net and the selection is unbeatable. Sportsman Warehouse is where I go for new weapons. Biggest problem I have here is not having enough money to get everything I find and want. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by He Dog
Thinking nothing is as good as it used to be is just an indication you are getting older. Nothing was ever as good as it used to be, you were just new to it then, and dazzled by the bright lights.
Nope, Smokeeater is right about the Ft. Wayne show. The aisles were crowded enough at one time that you had to wait to get up to some of the tables and you bumped into the people going the other way on the other side of the aisle. Now the aisles are very wide, there are three crossover breaks, one probably 35 feet wide (there used to be none), the tables don't go all the way to the end of a shortened room (folding wall), and one end was only about half covered with tables, and they were 20 feet from the end wall.
There was not a single dealer selling reloading bullets, two with a few types of brass, one with a VERY limited powder and primer selection, and only two that had any volume of loaded ammunition, and one of those was military only. The "military only" one only had the standard stuff, not even including .303 Enfield, which was one of the things I was looking for. I found one box of Remington factory .303 at another table - no military stuff at all.
There was not a single table that was selling reloading equipment other than a few odd dies at one table or another, but those were just two or three on those tables.
I was there Sunday for about two hours, and could have left 30 minutes earlier having seen everything worth looking at. Smokeeater is right about the ones he listed who weren't there, and I have bought several guns from them in the past, including a new S&W 642 and a very good SIG 239 with four mags. It was a bad show, but the last four straight there have been almost as bad, but not quite. Probably time to move on.0 -
Yes, indeed...the shows are infested with dealers, marking the guns up 10% from their shop prices.
The individuals have been driven out of the shows by fear...fear of their goverment agents' entrapping them.
As far as 'fair prices'..that is a function of the individual. Damn funny that 10-15 years ago, the gun shows were a thriving trading grounds for people...maybe there were many less people back them willing to give retail plus 10-30% profits to dealers..and were willing to trade amoung themselves.
There ain't no 'fixing it'..until the goverment gets out of the business of killing people for 'illegal guns'.
Allow the free trade of guns again...and watch the people once again enjoy a day at the gun show.
The choking down of the shows is working well for tyranny......0
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