The Result of the NRA Sellout
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071219/ap_on_go_co/congress_guns
remember the secret negotiations that the NRA had with democrats ? well looks like they made a deal and helped to further erode gun rights.
remember the secret negotiations that the NRA had with democrats ? well looks like they made a deal and helped to further erode gun rights.
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Congress OKs Va. Tech-inspired gun bill
WASHINGTON - Congress on Wednesday passed a long-stalled bill inspired by the Virginia Tech shootings that would more easily flag prospective gun buyers who have documented mental health problems. The measure also would help states with the cost.
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Passage by voice votes in the House and Senate came after months of negotiations between Senate Democrats and the lone Republican, Sen. Tom Coburn of Oklahoma, who had objected and delayed passage.
It was not immediately clear whether President Bush intended to sign, veto or ignore the bill. If Congress does not technically go out of session, as Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., has threatened, the bill would become law if Bush does not act within 10 days.
"This bill will make America safer without affecting the rights of a single law-abiding citizen," said the Senate's chief sponsor, New York Democrat Chuck Schumer.
The House sponsor, Rep. Carolyn McCarthy, spoke in the full House about her husband, who was killed by a gunman on the Long Island Railroad in New York. "To me, this is the best Christmas present I could ever receive," said McCarthy, D-N.Y.
Propelling the bill were the Virginia Tech shootings on April 16 and rare agreement between political foes, the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence and the National Rifle Association.
The measure would clarify what mental health records should be reported to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, which help gun dealers determine whether to sell a firearm to a prospective buyer, and give states financial incentives for compliance. The attorney general could penalize states if they fail to meet compliance targets.
Despite the combined superpowers of bill's supporters, Coburn held it up for months because he worried that millions of dollars in new spending would not be paid for by cuts in other programs.
His chief concern, he said, was that it did not pay for successful appeals by veterans or other people who say they are wrongly barred from buying a gun.
Just before midnight Tuesday, Coburn and the Democratic supporters of the bill struck a deal: The government would pay for the cost of appeals by gun owners and prospective buyers who argue successfully in court that they were wrongly deemed unqualified for mental health reasons.
The compromise would require that incorrect records - such as expunged mental health rulings that once disqualified a prospective gun buyer but no longer do - be removed from system within 30 days.
The original bill would require any agency, such as the Veterans Administration or the Defense Department, to notify a person flagged as mentally ill and disqualified from buying or possessing a gun. The new version now also would require the notification when someone has been cleared of that restriction.
The bill would authorize up to $250 million a year over five years for the states and as much as $125 million a year over the same period for state courts to help defray the cost of enacting the policy.
Propelling the long-sought legislation were the April 16 killings at Virginia Tech. Student Seung-Hui Cho killed 32 students and himself using two guns he had bought despite his documented history of mental illness.
Cho had been ruled a danger to himself during a court commitment hearing in 2005. He had been ordered to have outpatient mental health treatment and should have been barred from buying the two guns he used. But Virginia never forwarded the information to the national background check system.0 -
This is the bill that would make one third of our Armed Service Veterans ineligible to own a gun because of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD). 0 -
Now now CR, you know over here in GD, most love the NRA.
Why, they even think the only reason we have gun rights is BECAUSE of the NRA, Bill of Rights be damned.
But you ARE correct, the NRA sells its members and NON members down the river alike.0 -
If those Armed Forces members arn't willing to fight for freedom..REAL FREEDOM...not the garbage pushed by the Elites...they deserve to lose those Rights. 0 -
The NRA selling its members out to the control lobby, it is nothing new. They stuck it to us back in 1986 and I have not sent them a dime since.
Great article, a shame it appeared in the Washington Post, however the information is bang on correct.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...l?tid=informbox0 -
the plan would be common sense not to allow schizophrenics or deranged people to buy firearms, to me this is a no brainer, but our government WILL basterize it, like stated above vets, and then people who join AA, then if a person takes a certain medication, or marriage counseling, and so on they will have it where the sane have to all be certified to own a damn gun 0 -
quote:allow schizophrenics or deranged people to buy firearms
NO POWER ON EARTH CAN STOP SUCH FROM BUYING A FIREARM...not with hundreds of millions of guns in circulation.
The proper response to such is public attention. If someone in your AO is displaying aggressively a firearm..you TAKE IT AWAY...or shoot said perp.
Not the governments job..in any way, shape, or form.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Highball
quote:allow schizophrenics or deranged people to buy firearms
NO POWER ON EARTH CAN STOP SUCH FROM BUYING A FIREARM...not with hundreds of millions of guns in circulation.
The proper response to such is public attention. If someone in your AO is displaying aggressively a firearm..you TAKE IT AWAY...or shoot said perp.
Not the governments job..in any way, shape, or form.
i know some people that are pretty screwed up, and i don't know anyone that would sell them a gun even if you just met them0 -
After tomorrow morning i will no longer be a member of the nra.
people who have never even had a parking ticket are now going to lose their gun rights because they had the Guts or stupidy to fight for the u.s.0 -
quote:i know some people that are pretty screwed up, and i don't know anyone that would sell them a gun even if you just met them
You put your finger on another leg of gun control that is pefectly justified under the Constitution...the freedom of any citizen to NOT sell a firearm to ANYBODY..for any reason.
I guarandamntee you..when I was running gun shows...I refused to sell to MANY tattoed, baggy pants creeps..ANY thing that didn't smell right, and the deal was off. A few bucks aren't worth selling a gun to a crook or psycho.0 -
RSR1950;
Congratulations, Sir..that is the first step.
Now COMPLETELY understand the positions of the Elites and the NRA in reference to you...and MILLIONS of combat vets that the upper class garbage would..and ARE..disarming.
The last, best hope for a free America...millions of combat vets that decide that they will submit no more.0 -
Gun Owners of America's take on this.
http://www.gunowners.org/netb.htm0 -
The gungrabbing congress and the nra can all kiss my AZZ!!!!!!!
Its a good thing i gave away my 410 single barrel shotgun i would hate for it to be seized.0 -
quote:Originally posted by freemind
Now now CR, you know over here in GD, most love the NRA.
Why, they even think the only reason we have gun rights is BECAUSE of the NRA, Bill of Rights be damned.
But you ARE correct, the NRA sells its members and NON members down the river alike.
Why is it when some people want to bash the NRA they attribute tremendous power to the NRA? Power such as the NRA being able to "sell members and non-members and their rights down the river?" Since the NRA does not own those members/non-members nor does it own their gun rights, just how can the NRA "sell them?"
In addition, if such claims of NRA power are truthful, (as opposed to lies) then that would mean the NRA is very, very powerful. If that is the case, wouldn't it make more sense to work towards reforming the NRA from within instead of agitating for it's demise? And then use that power in a manner that might finally make some people here happy?
Also, who here is in favor of citizens who have "documented mental health problems" to be able to purchase a firearm just as quickly and easily as someone without such a handicap?0 -
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
quote:Originally posted by freemind
Now now CR, you know over here in GD, most love the NRA.
Why, they even think the only reason we have gun rights is BECAUSE of the NRA, Bill of Rights be damned.
But you ARE correct, the NRA sells its members and NON members down the river alike.
Why is it when some people want to bash the NRA they attribute tremendous power to the NRA? Power such as the NRA being able to "sell members and non-members and their rights down the river?" Since the NRA does not own those members/non-members nor does it own their gun rights, just how can the NRA "sell them?"
In addition, if such claims of NRA power are truthful, (as opposed to lies) then that would mean the NRA is very, very powerful. If that is the case, wouldn't it make more sense to work towards reforming the NRA from within instead of agitating for it's demise? And then use that power in a manner that might finally make some people here happy?
Also, who here is in favor of citizens who have "documented mental health problems" to be able to purchase a firearm just as quickly and easily as someone with such a handicap?
Your not a vet are you......0 -
quote:Originally posted by dongizmo
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
quote:Originally posted by freemind
Now now CR, you know over here in GD, most love the NRA.
Why, they even think the only reason we have gun rights is BECAUSE of the NRA, Bill of Rights be damned.
But you ARE correct, the NRA sells its members and NON members down the river alike.
Why is it when some people want to bash the NRA they attribute tremendous power to the NRA? Power such as the NRA being able to "sell members and non-members and their rights down the river?" Since the NRA does not own those members/non-members nor does it own their gun rights, just how can the NRA "sell them?"
In addition, if such claims of NRA power are truthful, (as opposed to lies) then that would mean the NRA is very, very powerful. If that is the case, wouldn't it make more sense to work towards reforming the NRA from within instead of agitating for it's demise? And then use that power in a manner that might finally make some people here happy?
Also, who here is in favor of citizens who have "documented mental health problems" to be able to purchase a firearm just as quickly and easily as someone with such a handicap?
Your not a vet are you......
I've got an honorable discharge from the USMC hanging on my hallway wall. How about you?
Besides, what has that got to do with this:
Also, who here is in favor of citizens who have "documented mental health problems" to be able to purchase a firearm just as quickly and easily as someone without such a handicap?0 -
quote:Also, who here is in favor of citizens who have "documented mental health problems" to be able to purchase a firearm just as quickly and easily as someone with such a handicap?
Me.But then..I believe in the Constitution...instead of the NRA and government.
The POWER of the NRA we that support the Constitution speak of is the power to defuse and weaken strong, principled support for the Second Amendment..in effect, proving to the world that the voice for gun freedom is a weak sister.willing to lift her skirts for whomever is powerful at this moment.
Yours and the NRAs' voice are defeating America..turning a strong, free country into a vassal state.0 -
Two months ago I went to a soccer game at a local junior high school. The school has two parking lots, one for upper facutly and one for common faculty. Upper faculty is closest to the main office and its where the principal, vice principal and other upper faculty have their parking spots, the best parking spots. However, this time I noticed something I hadnt seen before. The parking spots are actually labeled on the concrete stopper who they are for. Right next to the "principal" was the "psycologist". I thought to myself WTH ? Not only does the school have a psycologist but they are elevated to a level with the principal ?
As we all know public schools in America are run by liberals/socialists who are only intent on running indoctrination factories for our kids.
I can just see it now that a school "expert shrink" will be diagnosing kids who are religious as "paranoid, believing in super powers that dont exist" and therefore keeping a file that can then be forwarded to government officials as proof of a "medical expert" making a professional diagnosis of mental illness.
I have known a few people in my life that have been treated for various mental illness over. None were violent or dangerous in anyway. However, the most important FACT is that mentally ill people in America still retain their CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS .0 -
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
quote:Originally posted by dongizmo
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
quote:Originally posted by freemind
Now now CR, you know over here in GD, most love the NRA.
Why, they even think the only reason we have gun rights is BECAUSE of the NRA, Bill of Rights be damned.
But you ARE correct, the NRA sells its members and NON members down the river alike.
Why is it when some people want to bash the NRA they attribute tremendous power to the NRA? Power such as the NRA being able to "sell members and non-members and their rights down the river?" Since the NRA does not own those members/non-members nor does it own their gun rights, just how can the NRA "sell them?"
In addition, if such claims of NRA power are truthful, (as opposed to lies) then that would mean the NRA is very, very powerful. If that is the case, wouldn't it make more sense to work towards reforming the NRA from within instead of agitating for it's demise? And then use that power in a manner that might finally make some people here happy?
Also, who here is in favor of citizens who have "documented mental health problems" to be able to purchase a firearm just as quickly and easily as someone with such a handicap?
Your not a vet are you......
I've got an honorable discharge from the USMC hanging on my hallway wall. How about you?
And you trust VA docs?
And I have one from the army.0 -
quote:Originally posted by dongizmo
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
quote:Originally posted by dongizmo
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
quote:Originally posted by freemind
Now now CR, you know over here in GD, most love the NRA.
Why, they even think the only reason we have gun rights is BECAUSE of the NRA, Bill of Rights be damned.
But you ARE correct, the NRA sells its members and NON members down the river alike.
Why is it when some people want to bash the NRA they attribute tremendous power to the NRA? Power such as the NRA being able to "sell members and non-members and their rights down the river?" Since the NRA does not own those members/non-members nor does it own their gun rights, just how can the NRA "sell them?"
In addition, if such claims of NRA power are truthful, (as opposed to lies) then that would mean the NRA is very, very powerful. If that is the case, wouldn't it make more sense to work towards reforming the NRA from within instead of agitating for it's demise? And then use that power in a manner that might finally make some people here happy?
Also, who here is in favor of citizens who have "documented mental health problems" to be able to purchase a firearm just as quickly and easily as someone with such a handicap?
Your not a vet are you......
I've got an honorable discharge from the USMC hanging on my hallway wall. How about you?
And you trust VA docs?
And I have one from the army.
So.........first it was the gun grabbers, then it was the NRA and now even the "VA docs" are working to take away our guns? Man, our list of gun grabbing enemies gets longer and longer.0 -
TR - VA doctors want to give their patients the best and most needed care they can. In some cases that means diagnosing a patient with a certain mental illness and then treating it. When that happens the patient is now at risk of losing their constitutional right.
I dont think anyone is saying the VA doctors WANT that to happen, its just the position they have been put in by the new law.0 -
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
quote:Originally posted by freemind
Now now CR, you know over here in GD, most love the NRA.
Why, they even think the only reason we have gun rights is BECAUSE of the NRA, Bill of Rights be damned.
But you ARE correct, the NRA sells its members and NON members down the river alike.
Why is it when some people want to bash the NRA they attribute tremendous power to the NRA? Power such as the NRA being able to "sell members and non-members and their rights down the river?" Since the NRA does not own those members/non-members nor does it own their gun rights, just how can the NRA "sell them?"
In addition, if such claims of NRA power are truthful, (as opposed to lies) then that would mean the NRA is very, very powerful. If that is the case, wouldn't it make more sense to work towards reforming the NRA from within instead of agitating for it's demise? And then use that power in a manner that might finally make some people here happy?
Also, who here is in favor of citizens who have "documented mental health problems" to be able to purchase a firearm just as quickly and easily as someone with such a handicap?
I don't think so.
As I have posted many times, the NRA has proven to be a wolf in sheep's clothing and is a danger to the future of the RTKBA, period.
I really hate to have those of us who sound the "NRA alarm" be proven correct again, but it is what it is.
If this were an isolated incident, or one case of "bad judgment", i'd understand the forgiveness and continued support from some.
Simply put, it isn't.
This is just another crystal clear example, in a long and sordid history, of NRA complicity, support and facilitation of gun-control in America. Wake the "F" up Mr. and Mrs. America. Pull your head out of your ass and look around. Quit listening to what the NRA and its "support staff" among the gun-owning community are "telling" you and look at what they DO.
I sincerely hope that this example will wake up some more gun-owners who love their freedom and cause them to rethink exactly what the NRA is and what the NRA does in the name of "gun-rights".
Take your money and support, tell NRA to stick it up Wayne's or "Spokesmodel" Chris Cox's ass and go to JPFO, SAF, GOA or another organization who are not selling your RTKBA down the river.0 -
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
quote:Originally posted by dongizmo
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
quote:Originally posted by dongizmo
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
quote:Originally posted by freemind
Now now CR, you know over here in GD, most love the NRA.
Why, they even think the only reason we have gun rights is BECAUSE of the NRA, Bill of Rights be damned.
But you ARE correct, the NRA sells its members and NON members down the river alike.
Why is it when some people want to bash the NRA they attribute tremendous power to the NRA? Power such as the NRA being able to "sell members and non-members and their rights down the river?" Since the NRA does not own those members/non-members nor does it own their gun rights, just how can the NRA "sell them?"
In addition, if such claims of NRA power are truthful, (as opposed to lies) then that would mean the NRA is very, very powerful. If that is the case, wouldn't it make more sense to work towards reforming the NRA from within instead of agitating for it's demise? And then use that power in a manner that might finally make some people here happy?
Also, who here is in favor of citizens who have "documented mental health problems" to be able to purchase a firearm just as quickly and easily as someone with such a handicap?
Your not a vet are you......
I've got an honorable discharge from the USMC hanging on my hallway wall. How about you?
And you trust VA docs?
And I have one from the army.
So.........first it was the gun grabbers, then it was the NRA and now even the "VA docs" are working to take away our guns? Man, our list of gun grabbing enemies gets longer and longer.
No, but I don't put it past a va doc to declare you not fit.
(remember who signs his check)
After all, you have this desire to own deadly weapons, you must be unstable.
Have a talk with a clinical social worker, that is what they will tell you....0 -
Leftist's Garden Of Cant; pretty, pink, homogenous, and SAFE ..
Registration will dispose of the impetuous , and all will proceed in sweet order, much like a well-regulated third-grade reading class exclusively using materials approved by the Children's Television Workshop For Progressive Change. No more will chewing gum besmirch the furniture, and Hillary's lipidinous limbs will go unremarked. HUZZAH!
[:D]0 -
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
quote:Originally posted by freemind
Now now CR, you know over here in GD, most love the NRA.
Why, they even think the only reason we have gun rights is BECAUSE of the NRA, Bill of Rights be damned.
But you ARE correct, the NRA sells its members and NON members down the river alike.
Why is it when some people want to bash the NRA they attribute tremendous power to the NRA? Power such as the NRA being able to "sell members and non-members and their rights down the river?" Since the NRA does not own those members/non-members nor does it own their gun rights, just how can the NRA "sell them?"
In addition, if such claims of NRA power are truthful, (as opposed to lies) then that would mean the NRA is very, very powerful. If that is the case, wouldn't it make more sense to work towards reforming the NRA from within instead of agitating for it's demise? And then use that power in a manner that might finally make some people here happy?
Also, who here is in favor of citizens who have "documented mental health problems" to be able to purchase a firearm just as quickly and easily as someone without such a handicap?
It is simply because of blind, willfully ignorant support of the NRA that they have taken on the mantle of "staunch defender" of "YOUR Second Amendment Rights" as they like to trumpet. Support much like you offer up.
America's gun-owners are by and large morons in the political and constitutional sense.
Most gun-owners have guns because they hunt, because Uncle Skippy left them a couple, because they grew up with a couple in the house and so did Dad and Gramps.
Generally they are clueless of RTKBA issues and like you tr, they rely on someone else to advise them on constitutional issues, such as our esteemed NRA. They don't have a good understanding of the meaning and intent of the US Constitution and its Bill of Rights, or of the proper role of the Federal Government.
As to the last point in your post.....the Federal Government has ZERO Constitutional authority to make ANY determination as to which of America's Citizens can, or can't, purchase, own, carry or use a firearm, period.
You know, that whole "right of the people" keeping and bearing arms and "shall not be infringed" thing.
States may arguable impose certain reglations and set certain sanctions for misuse of a firearm, dependent on their particular State Constitution of course.
The Fed has ZERO authority to do so under the US Constitution.
If someone buys a gun from an individual or retailer who makes the CHOICE to sell them one and then that person misuses that firearm....you punish the act committed, swiftly and surely, without imposing regulations on an inanimate object or the rest of "free" American Citizens. It falls under the umbrella of an overall concept that can be described as "the price we pay to live in a free society".
This is simply a concept called "personal accountability" and it fits into an overall theme of "individual liberty", which meshes with a governing system called a "Constitutional Republic".
Got it?0 -
quote:agreement between political foes, the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence and the National Rifle Association.
Big surprise, NOT!0 -
When you side with the likes of Schumer, McCarthy, Dingell, and the brady bunch, it is going to be hard to hide/defend this blunder. Do you really think the above mentioned have changed their spots???
Historically, ANY gun-control bill they support CAN NOT be good for gunowners. This is just a prelude of what is to come, after the 2008 election. No matter WHICH candidate gets in. NONE of them believe in the constitution, well, except for Ron.
Backing this bill WILL come back to bite the NRA in the backside......BIGTIME.
As it should. [:(!]0 -
Tr, enough is enough. I am sick to death of the supposed ignorance you have of the NRA. After all of the 100's of logical discussions that have taken place here, you have gone from 50/50 not sure to 110% for the NRA. This makes no sense and is illogical. You must have a mental defect and therefore have no right to a firearm!!!!!!!(Hey I based this on your own defense, and I am as qualified as one of those quacks, believe me)
Pay attention cause I'm only going to say this once Tr.
IT IS NOT SCIENCE! It's closer to some sort of whacked out religion! 90% of psychologists have a psychologist. It's NOT real but is given credibility and deserves NONE OF IT! Now they want to base a constitutional right on it!?!? BS, and you, defending it! What is your problem?
As far as NRA, Go back and read some of your thoughts from 4 years ago on this subject.0 -
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
quote:Originally posted by dongizmo
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
quote:Originally posted by freemind
Now now CR, you know over here in GD, most love the NRA.
Why, they even think the only reason we have gun rights is BECAUSE of the NRA, Bill of Rights be damned.
But you ARE correct, the NRA sells its members and NON members down the river alike.
Why is it when some people want to bash the NRA they attribute tremendous power to the NRA? Power such as the NRA being able to "sell members and non-members and their rights down the river?" Since the NRA does not own those members/non-members nor does it own their gun rights, just how can the NRA "sell them?"
In addition, if such claims of NRA power are truthful, (as opposed to lies) then that would mean the NRA is very, very powerful. If that is the case, wouldn't it make more sense to work towards reforming the NRA from within instead of agitating for it's demise? And then use that power in a manner that might finally make some people here happy?
Also, who here is in favor of citizens who have "documented mental health problems" to be able to purchase a firearm just as quickly and easily as someone with such a handicap?
Your not a vet are you......
I've got an honorable discharge from the USMC hanging on my hallway wall. How about you?
Besides, what has that got to do with this:
Also, who here is in favor of citizens who have "documented mental health problems" to be able to purchase a firearm just as quickly and easily as someone without such a handicap?
How about this question...Who here is in favor of the 2nd Amendment??? That is the question we should be asking. There is a price for freedom...and sometimes it is high. I'll take that price any day...as a matter of fact, I've already paid it. Give me my 2nd Amendment!0 -
Its funny when you think the NRA agrees with a anti gun group everybody here goes crazy and thinks the NRA is evil. But by thinking the NRA is evil you are agreeing with the anti gun groups also. (Just an my observation of Hippocrates.} 0
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