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LEO's pistol jammed, so widow sues Beretta

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70 comments

  • 1911a1-fan
    quote:Originally posted by CA sucks
    quote:I've seen trigger return springs, extractors, and other parts just flat-out break during operation.
    If this were the case, there might be some merit to the case, but something breaking is different from a jam.

    quote:Tap...Rack...Bang...
    exactly, care to explain how this short sequence lead to his death-
    Its in the middle of a gunfight, so there was some distance between them. And the guy is drunk.

    *Gunshots fired* -the drunk is not wearing hearing protection, so his ears are ringing.
    *Tap* - his ears are ringing, and hes drunk, he doesn't immediatley realize the cop pulled the trigger but the gun didn't fire.

    *rack* - the drunk realizes the cops gun had jammed, but will now be ready to fire again in 0.1 seconds

    - Drunk moves like the flash from the comic books- alcohol gives him super powers, he closes the distance, and places his gun up to the officers head without the officer even reacting or trying to grab the drunk's hands/gun.

    *Bang* *Bang*

    This sequence just doesn't make sense.

    His gun jammed and caused his death -> BS, sounds to me more like the drunk got the drop on the cop and that was that.

    Sue the drunk, jail the drunk, execute the drunk- of course he was probably an illegal with no money anyway.



    tap rack bang is what you do when you get a jam, has nothing to do with your analogy, it works wonders and can clear a common jam in under a second
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  • Txs
    quote:Originally posted by Jgreen
    I will say that I have sued a gun manufacturer before over an AD. I won't tell you the brand name, but suffice it to say that it is a well known and respected manufacturer, and I had an expert drop the very same gun, and it fired, and I have it on videotape.Sounds familiar.

    I understand you can't identify the manufacturer, but by chance was this a German design?
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  • 511pe
    Alcohol does give people super powers. Ever see a drunk be the sole survivor of a mass fatality vehicle crash? And if you're ugly it gives you a chance to procreate. But what ever powers it gives speed and ballance aren't included. I can clear a jam fast. Beretta had some bad runs like most manuractures they improved so much the popular clones can't compair to the high quality they are now, just ask an army armorer. Police pistols go through alot of abuse, cuz they have to. At what point does a bartender say if you want another beer you'll have to take a breathalizer test to see if you're legally drunk? Cuz if you are than I can't serve you. I've yet to see that. Some people I've met in bars are afraid to get pissed off and leave cuz someone may call in a drunk driver to the cops. Some regulars always tip the bartender well just so they can try to get home without police intervention. It's funny when a drunk cop thinks you're too loaded to drive and trys to grab your keys only to fall off his bar stool. I've got a hard time feeling sorry for people in dangerous jobs and getting hert or killed in the line of duty when they were well awair of the risk involved. Any cops wife & kids know when that door closes going to work dad might not make it back. You have to be a strong person to look in the eyes of hell and know what you must do to bring order, you must be a soldier
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  • Txs
    quote:Originally posted by 511pe
    I've got a hard time feeling sorry for people in dangerous jobs and getting hert or killed in the line of duty when they were well awair of the risk involved.I hate to see any decent human being get hurt or killed, no matter what they do for a living. Guess I'm just funny that way.
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  • Jgreen
    TXS- I can't say the manufacturer. Part of the settlement. I will say that it is a gun that is still being made, supposedly with some safety changes, and it is one that no one would be embarrased to admit to owning or carrying.
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  • CA sucks
    quote:tap rack bang is what you do when you get a jam, has nothing to do with your analogy, it works wonders and can clear a common jam in under a second

    I know- what I am saying, is that given the short time it takes to clear a jam, it just doesn't make sense that the drunk was able to put his gun to the officers face.

    I am assuming there was distance between the two, as they said a gunfight started and shots were fired.

    I'm also assuming the drunk probably didn't even hear/notice the officer pulling the trigger and not having a round go off.

    It doesn't make sense to me that in the time it takes the officer to rack his slide, that the drunk was able to close the distance and go "bang" at point blank before the officer could go "bang" himself

    Jgreen- I know I don't have all the details, but based on the details given, it doesn't seem to add up.
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  • minitruck83
    quote:Originally posted by Txs


    Notice the incident occurred 8-29-05 but this lawsuit wasn't filed until 8-26-2007? I don't know the time limit after the fact for filing such a lawsuit in Alabama, but I suspect it's two years.



    Think about what kind of shape that gun is going to be in after 2 years sealed up uncleaned in an evidence bag!

    Allen
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  • Nighthawk
    IMHO the way people are sueing today and not accepting the fact that nothing is guranteed is ruining our Country. They need to put a cap on these junk lawsuits. Myself I see at as blood money and could not enjoy spending one cent of the money.
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  • sig232
    quote:Originally posted by nemesisenforcer
    quote:Originally posted by v35
    I hope she wins.
    I remember when one could expect guns to function out of the box, gun parts to fit, magazines to feed, ammunition to feed and sights to be on target.
    Suitability for purpose is a part of contract law.


    Yes, but only REASONABLE suitability. The product need not function PERFECTLY. If that were the requirement, no one would make anything because they would be driven out of business in about 3 seconds by plaintiffs suing because a given item didn't work absolutely flawlessly.

    We live in the real world. We cannot sanitize, control, predict, child-proof, and micromanage everything. We can't even do it with ANYTHING. Accidents happen, tragedies occur, and we used to accept that as part of the human condition and the instability and unpredictability of life. Now, when something happens, we look for someone to sue to "make it right" and "make sure it doesn't happen to someone else."



    Well said![:0]
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  • Jgreen
    The law doesn't require perfection.

    I agree that there will be accidents. The problem is that some accidents don't have to occur.

    Perfect example. The CZ 52 was designed 55 years ago, and it had a firing pin block. AD's from dropped guns were known way back then. Any gun designed since then MUST have, in my opinion, some system to make sure that there won't be any ADs if the gun is dropped. Sig has a great one. The Springfield XD and the Para Ordinance both have (if memory serves) a grip safety that when sqeezed, releases a firing pin block.

    Non-mechanical changes can ensure that this doesn't happen. For example, a combination of a light firing pin and a heavy firing pin spring, together with a firing pin that is short enought that it actually has to travel to reach the firing pin hole is a HUGE safety advantage.
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  • Txs
    quote:Originally posted by Jgreen
    Non-mechanical changes can ensure that this doesn't happen. For example, a combination of a light firing pin and a heavy firing pin spring, together with a firing pin that is short enought that it actually has to travel to reach the firing pin hole is a HUGE safety advantage.Yep.

    Walther has managed to keep this one quiet for years. [;)]
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  • Jgreen
    Actually, there's a well known expert on Walther handguns, whose name escapes me, who posted that he dropped a PP and it fired.
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  • Henry0Reilly
    quote:Golden's family sued the Albarran family and the restaurant in a wrongful death lawsuit in Madison County and in 2011 a jury awarded the family $25 million from Albarran and $12.5 million from the restaurant.

    I can't find any info on how this turned out for Beretta.
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  • evileye fleagal
    right or wrong, deep pocket pays....and you can take that to the bank.

    sorry for the LEO an family.
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  • bambambam
    quote:Originally posted by spanielsells
    quote:Originally posted by v35
    I hope she wins.
    I remember when one could expect guns to function out of the box, gun parts to fit, magazines to feed, ammunition to feed and sights to be on target.
    Suitability for purpose is a part of contract law.
    Or, you could start remembering the time when guns were manufactured to be sold to the public, but are no longer, because they could not guarantee that the gun would never jam or malfunction ever, no matter what sort of care the owner took or failed to take.


    +1

    Who's knows how well the gun was kept? It could have had all kinds of crud from being kept in a holster 24/7, who knows?

    I guess she could just sue everyone and see which one sticks? I feel sorry for the family, but she needs to direct her anger/hurt towards the criminal, not the store owner & gun manufacture.
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  • KEVD18
    quote:Originally posted by v35
    I hope she wins.
    I remember when one could expect guns to function out of the box, gun parts to fit, magazines to feed, ammunition to feed and sights to be on target.
    Suitability for purpose is a part of contract law.



    wow. talk about setting up a slippery slope......
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  • Mr. Perfect
    quote:Originally posted by Henry0Reilly
    quote:Golden's family sued the Albarran family and the restaurant in a wrongful death lawsuit in Madison County and in 2011 a jury awarded the family $25 million from Albarran and $12.5 million from the restaurant.

    I can't find any info on how this turned out for Beretta.
    It was getting rather moldy.
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  • bambambam
    quote:Originally posted by Jgreen
    None of you know enough to comment on this.

    I will say that I have sued a gun manufacturer before over an AD. I won't tell you the brand name, but suffice it to say that it is a well known and respected manufacturer, and I had an expert drop the very same gun, and it fired, and I have it on videotape.

    The gun was owned by a cop, and it fell from his locker, and it ended up shooting him up the leg and out his upper back.

    I spent over $20,000.00 of my own money on this case. Do you think I did this for shi-s and giggles?

    Any attorney with 1/2 a brain isn't going to sue Beretta lightly. They'll flatten him in a second. There's no reason for Beretta to pay a "quick settlement". And if the case is truly crap, the court can sanction the parties and the attorneys for filing a crap lawsuit.

    We don't know what happened. I can think of a dozen different reasons why the gun may have jammed, related to the magazine alone. Did a lip break off of the mag? Did it become unseated? Did it double feed? Did the extractor not pull out the spent cartridge? Did the ejector break off?

    Should ANY of that have happened?

    As far as I am concerned, guns are a sacred thing. You don't design a gun in a half-a$$ way. You are relying on this thing to save your life. It damn well better fire when you pull the trigger. Likewise, there is no reason that ANY gun should fire until the trigger is pulled. Period.


    Let me guess....Remington Model 700.
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  • Txs
    quote:Originally posted by Henry0Reilly
    I can't find any info on how this turned out for Beretta.
    The other lawsuits apparently stood, but the one against Beretta was quickly dismissed.

    Beats me why.
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  • Sam06
    This is a thread from the past. I thought I was crazy when I saw Colt Supers response and then I looked at the date.

    Wow.


    Looks like she made bank on the suit. I would never have thunk it.
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  • KEVD18
    quote:Originally posted by Txs
    quote:Originally posted by Henry0Reilly
    I can't find any info on how this turned out for Beretta.
    The other lawsuits apparently stood, but the one against Beretta was quickly dismissed.

    Beats me why.


    the lawsuit against beretta was ridiculous and frivolous. how can they possibly be responsible for a weapon they arent maintaining? im sure they can document that it functioned when it left the factory. their responsibility ends there, unless there was a documented history of this particular weapon having reliability issues that were improperly addressed by beretta.

    for many years mcdonalds et al didnt advertise the health information for their food. does that make them responsible for people getting fat, i dont think so; but perhaps theres something to be said for them not being upfront about it.

    for many years, tobacco companies did the same thing and took it even further by advertising "safe", "healthy", and "doctor approved" cigarettes. does that make them responsible, i dont think so but maybe theres something to be said...

    the famous coffee case at mcdonalds is kind of a different matter. they kept their coffee very, very hot, well above average temp. i still dont think that makes them responsible for a woman who burns her baby maker while trying to fix her coffee and drive at the same time, but again it opens the door to the question "if the coffee wasnt so hot, would be she have been so grievously injured by it"...
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  • 46270
    No its a bad sign, was his weapon maintained properly?
    To say his wive should win, there are things about the weapon we don't know.
    Can you imagine a better way to close a gun manufacturer? Besides taxing them to death, force them to defend themselves in court, sounds like Obamas playbook.
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  • Mr. Perfect
    quote:Originally posted by KEVD18
    quote:Originally posted by Txs
    quote:Originally posted by Henry0Reilly
    I can't find any info on how this turned out for Beretta.
    The other lawsuits apparently stood, but the one against Beretta was quickly dismissed.

    Beats me why.


    the lawsuit against beretta was ridiculous and frivolous. how can they possibly be responsible for a weapon they arent maintaining? im sure they can document that it functioned when it left the factory. their responsibility ends there, unless there was a documented history of this particular weapon having reliability issues that were improperly addressed by beretta.

    for many years mcdonalds et al didnt advertise the health information for their food. does that make them responsible for people getting fat, i dont think so; but perhaps theres something to be said for them not being upfront about it.

    for many years, tobacco companies did the same thing and took it even further by advertising "safe", "healthy", and "doctor approved" cigarettes. does that make them responsible, i dont think so but maybe theres something to be said...

    the famous coffee case at mcdonalds is kind of a different matter. they kept their coffee very, very hot, well above average temp. i still dont think that makes them responsible for a woman who burns her baby maker while trying to fix her coffee and drive at the same time, but again it opens the door to the question "if the coffee wasnt so hot, would be she have been so grievously injured by it"...
    The coffee case was more complex that that. The customer had gotten coffee from that store a few times previously and they regularly did not affix the lid properly, even after she had addressed it with their management.
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  • legear
    Just did a quick search. Looks like some LEAs got rids of berettas for lots of failures. The px4 mainly.

    There looks to be a record of failures if one looks on the web.
    The wife might have a winner in the case after all
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  • Txs
    An obvious out for any firearms manufacturer in this situation is whether the end user followed their recommended armorer maintenance schedules. This would include periodic full assembly, inspection of all parts, spring replacements, etc.
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  • GONESHOOTING
    Beretta will settle, they have insurance for this kind of liability. A

    lot of circumstances in this case. Sorry for her lose[:(]
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  • bigoutside
    Except tha firearms manufactures are specifically exempt as a matter of law from liability claims.
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  • KEVD18
    quote:Originally posted by GONESHOOTING
    Beretta will settle, they have insurance for this kind of liability. A

    lot of circumstances in this case. Sorry for her lose[:(]


    they may have insurance, but that doesnt mean they will/would settle. settling sets a precedent, not just for you but for an entire industry.
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  • Txs
    quote:Originally posted by GONESHOOTING
    Beretta will settle, they have insurance for this kind of liability.quote:Originally posted by KEVD18
    they may have insurance, but that doesnt mean they will/would settle.This OP is from six years ago.

    As has been pointed out, that lawsuit against Beretta was quickly dismissed.
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  • RobOz
    Wouldn't have happened with a Glock.
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