Denied Continued
quote:
Originally posted by hk-91
bullchit. my father inlaw gets a delay every time he buys a gun and has bought a couple from them. they have always called him and told him to come and pick it up with a day or two.
quote:
Originally posted by 1shotcleaner
w.w. has a policy to not sell firearms to any one delayed. they will not tell you that but thats the case.
Quote "EOD Guy"
They don't have much of a choice. When it is called in, delayed, and then later...approved, they had better damn well have record of the serial number being sold. Unless they void every one that is delayed. It also makes no difference to them, if it's approved, it's approved. That's that.
EOD Guy,you are wrong when a transfer is denied the FFL must retain the Denied 4473 Form with his records.[:)]
Originally posted by hk-91
bullchit. my father inlaw gets a delay every time he buys a gun and has bought a couple from them. they have always called him and told him to come and pick it up with a day or two.
quote:
Originally posted by 1shotcleaner
w.w. has a policy to not sell firearms to any one delayed. they will not tell you that but thats the case.
Quote "EOD Guy"
They don't have much of a choice. When it is called in, delayed, and then later...approved, they had better damn well have record of the serial number being sold. Unless they void every one that is delayed. It also makes no difference to them, if it's approved, it's approved. That's that.
EOD Guy,you are wrong when a transfer is denied the FFL must retain the Denied 4473 Form with his records.[:)]
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I have also gotten a delay on a 10/22 purchased at Wallyworld and picked up the rifle 3 days later when it timed out, with no problems. Their policies must be store to store, not system wide. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by 1shotcleaner
w.w. [Walmart] has a policy to not sell firearms to any one delayed. they will not tell you that but thats the case.
I do not believe it would be legal for Walmart to implement such a policy.
Walmart must follow the law on background checks; just as they could not, on their own, decide to sell a firearm to someone who was denied, they cannot decide on their own to not sell a firearm -- if the waiting period expired with no action denying approval -- just because there was a delay in the background check. (I'm sure they could have other reasons to not complete a sale, for example, if a guy trying to buy a firearm was constantly cursing under his breath, but to deny a sale only because the background check was delayed probably wouldn't be legal.)
Most delays are just the result of confusion in records; they do not result in a denied transfer. It would be bad business practice for Walmart to follow such a policy, if it is actually legal for them to stop a sale just because of a delay.0 -
quote:Originally posted by competentone
quote:Originally posted by 1shotcleaner
w.w. [Walmart] has a policy to not sell firearms to any one delayed. they will not tell you that but thats the case.
I do not believe it would be legal for Walmart to implement such a policy.
Walmart must follow the law on background checks; just as they could not, on their own, decide to sell a firearm to someone who was denied, they cannot decide on their own to not sell a firearm -- if the waiting period expired with no action denying approval -- just because there was a delay in the background check. (I'm sure they could have other reasons to not complete a sale, for example, if a guy trying to buy a firearm was constantly cursing under his breath, but to deny a sale only because the background check was delayed probably wouldn't be legal.)
Most delays are just the result of confusion in records; they do not result in a denied transfer. It would be bad business practice for Walmart to follow such a policy, if it is actually legal for them to stop a sale just because of a delay.
A dealer does not have to sell to anyone...as a matter of fact we are encouraged by the ATF to screen our purchasers...0 -
better idea...don't buy guns at Great Wall Of China Mart..support yor local mom&pop store 0 -
quote:Originally posted by competentone
I do not believe it would be legal for Walmart to implement such a policy.
Every merchant has the right to refuse sales to anyone he chooses not to do business with.0 -
Agreed PBJ !! 0 -
True... but in essence "the contract for sale has been made" once they have reached the point for the background check. If they deny you for a delay it may be cause for a breech of contract. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by ECC
A dealer does not have to sell to anyone...as a matter of fact we are encouraged by the ATF to screen our purchasers...
Agreed, but my point was (which I thought I made clear) I do not believe that they could refuse the sale only based upon the issue of a delay when the background check is made.
The point "dakotashooter2" makes: "...in essence 'the contract for sale has been made' once they have reached the point for the background check. If they deny you for a delay it may be cause for a breech of contract" is an excellent one.
I'm wondering if the policy "1shotcleaner" claims Walmart has is some rumor that started after someone trying to buy a firearm became "irate" after he/she was told the purchase would be delayed because of a background check delay. Perhaps a Walmart manager stepped in and stopped the sale based upon the "irate" reaction of the purchaser and not because of the delay?
I don't know if that is the case; I'm just speculating. Perhaps "1shotcleaner" will comment and explain how he's concluded that Walmart has the policy he claims they have.0 -
The "contract" for the sale of a weapon by an FFL is not consumated untill the delivery of the weapon the dealer can stop the sale at any time up to the point of delivery if they so chose, with out repercussion the sale is at there didcretion. If you like I are delayed time after time you can file for a voluntary appeal file "form 1110-0043 that you can get from the ATF fill out the form get your fingerprints taken, send a letter stating why you believe you should not be delayed and you can get a pin number that will hopfully get you a gun on day of purchase. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by daveald
The "contract" for the sale of a weapon by an FFL is not consumated untill the delivery of the weapon the dealer can stop the sale at any time up to the point of delivery if they so chose, with out repercussion the sale is at there didcretion.
I was curious and was searching ATF's site, I'm not sure that the FFL can "cancel" the "contract" as you claim -- at least not after the buyer has filled out ATF Form 4473.
This is from a March 2006 FFL Newsletter (from the ATF):
The ATF Form 4473 modification includes
the addition of a "Cancelled" option as part
of Questions 21c, 21d, and 21e. Transactions
should not be cancelled by the FFL unless
advised by the NICS Section. Reasons that
the NICS Section may cancel a transaction
include, but are not limited to, the following:
no proof of residency shown, no 90-day
proof of residency shown (aliens),and
purchaser answered "yes" to any questions
from 11b through 11k on the ATF Form
4473.
(bold is my emphasis)
I couldn't find much else in searching (and am out of time right now) indicating how an FFL should act if he decided, after he had a customer fill out the Form 4473, that he did not want to sell the firearm to the customer.
If you are correct and the FFL can stop the transaction at any time prior to handing the firearm to the buyer (which would be quite different than the contract sale of other goods) there must be some reference to it in the law. I may try to look more later. If you, or anyone else has the details on the law in a firearms' sales (and how those laws may be different than the contract law that applies in the sale of other goods), I'd be curious to hear it.0 -
I was closing the ATF PDF documents and notice this (At the top of the March 2006 FFL Newsletter):
Questions #21c., 21d., and 21e. references
NICS entries. The FFL should not check the
"cancelled" block to indicate a cancelled sale
where the buyer has decided not to purchase
the firearm. Only NICS can cancel a transaction.
A transaction can be cancelled by NICS at any
point during the background check. A
"cancelled" transaction occurs when the FFL
does not fulfill their obligation to obtain all
required information such as a "yes" answer to a
prohibiting question or fails to obtain
documentation to establish 90-day State
residency. NICS has advised that if the FFL
notifies NICS that the buyer does not want to
proceed with the sale, NICS will continue to
process the transaction, since the buyer may
change their mind and decide to purchase the
firearm. NICS will not issue a "cancelled"
transaction for those buyers who decide not to
proceed with the sale.
It still doesn't answer the question as to what the FFL should do if he decides he doesn't want to proceed with the transaction after the buyer has filled out the 4473 and the background check is pending.0 -
we dont have any mom and pops anymore
back in the 70's all the hardware store around here
sold guns, since that time the mom & pop hardware stores
are gone, now lowes and home depot
now wallyworld does not sell.
now we have to go to jax0 -
quote:Originally posted by 46270
we dont have any mom and pops anymore
back in the 70's all the hardware store around here
sold guns, since that time the mom & pop hardware stores
are gone, now lowes and home depot
now wallyworld does not sell.
now we have to go to jax
Damn man that stinks. Ive got 2 small shops i almost exclusively throw my business to. Mark Kubes Firearms and Accessories for Milsurp stuff, And Kastle Keep guns for modern stuff. Love em both. Mark has tons of odds and ends i love to search through!0
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