court martial for home shooting...
From another forum I frequent...
Retired Green Beret shoots intruder, gets court martial
BREVARD, Jan. 19, 2008 - Retired Army Green Beret James T. (Smokey) Taylor got his court martial this weekend and came away feeling pretty good about it.
Taylor, at age 79, is one of the oldest members of Chapter XXXIII (The Larry Thorne Chapter) of the Special Forces Association. He was placed on trial by fellow Chapter XXXIII members under the charge of "failing to use a weapon of sufficient caliber" in the shooting of an intruder at his home in Knoxville , TN , in November.
The court martial, of course, was very much tongue in cheek. The event itself was deadly serious.
Taylor had been awakened in the early morning hours of November 5, 2007,when an intruder broke into his home. He investigated the noises with one of his many weapons in hand.
"It was just after Halloween, on Monday morning at 4:30," Taylor said. I heard this commotion at the door and grabbed my fishing gun, a little .22 revolver, to see what was going on. I got to the front door and this fellow had ripped my security door out of its frame. He said, 'you're going to have to kill me. I'm coming in.'"
When a warning to leave went unheeded, Taylor brought his .22 caliber pistol to bear and shot him right between the eyes.
"I was about four feet away from him when I shot," Taylor said. "Looking back now, I'm glad he didn't die, but that boy had the hardest head I've ever seen. The bullet bounced right off."
The impact knocked the would-be thief down momentarily. He crawled out of the house then got up and ran down the street. Taylor dialed 911 and Knoxville police apprehended the wounded man about 200 yards away, hiding in a hedgerow.
Complicating the case, as well as the court martial, the offender was released on bail but failed to appear for his court date. Knoxville police said the man was homeless. They did not know his whereabouts or why he had been given bail.
The charges brought against Taylor by his fellow Green Berets were considered to be serious. He is a retired Special Forces Weapons Sergeant with extensive combat experience during the wars in Korea and Vietnam.
"Charges were brought against him under the premise that he should have saved the county and taxpayers the expense of a trial," said Chapter XXXIII President Bill Long of Asheville , NC.
The trial was held at the Hampton Inn in Brevard, part of the group's regularly scheduled quarterly meeting. Long appointed a judge, Bert Bates, a defense counsel, Jim Hash, and a prosecutor, Charlie Ponds. All are retired Special Forces non-commissioned officers with extensive combat and weapons experience.
Ponds outlined the case against Taylor, emphasizing that the citizens of Knox County were going to be burdened with significant costs to again apprehend, and then prosecute and defend the would-be burglar.
"Proper choice of a larger caliber gun would have spared the citizens this financial burden," Ponds said, "while removing one bad guy from the streets for good. He could have used a .45 or .38. The .22 just wasn't big enough to get the job done. Hash disagreed. He said Taylor had done the right thing in choosing to arm himself with a 22.
"If he'd used a .45 or something like that the round would have gone right through the perp, the wall, the neighbor's wall and possibly injured some innocent child asleep in its bed. I believe the evidence shows that Smokey Taylor exercised excellent judgment in his choice of weapons. He clearly remains to this day an excellent weapons man."
Hash then floated a theory as to why the bullet bounced off the perp's forehead. "He was victimized by old ammunition," he said, "just as he was in Korea and again in Vietnam , when his units were issued ammo left over from World War II."
Taylor said nothing in his own defense, choosing instead to allow his peers to debate the matter. The jury, consisting of all the members of the Chapter, discussed the merits of choosing a larger caliber weapon as well as the obvious benefits to society of permanently deleting the intruder so he would never again threaten any private citizen.
The other side of the coin, that of accidentally causing injury to a completely innocent citizen if a more powerful gun had been used, also gained considerable support.
Following testimony from both sides, Judge Bates determined the charges should be dismissed. The decision was met with a round of applause. In fact, there was strong sentiment expressed that Taylor should receive an award for not only choosing wisely in picking up the 22, but for the accuracy of his aim under difficult and dangerous conditions.
After the trial Taylor said the ammunition was indeed old and added the new information that the perp had soiled his pants as he crawled out the door. "I would have had an even worse mess to clean up if it had gone through his forehead," Taylor said. "It was good for both of us that it didn't."
Meanwhile, back in Knox County , the word is out: Don't go messing with Smokey Taylor. He just bought a whole bunch of fresh ammo.
Tribune Editor Bill Fishburne is a member of the Larry Thorne Chapter XXXIII of the Special Forces Association.
Retired Green Beret shoots intruder, gets court martial
BREVARD, Jan. 19, 2008 - Retired Army Green Beret James T. (Smokey) Taylor got his court martial this weekend and came away feeling pretty good about it.
Taylor, at age 79, is one of the oldest members of Chapter XXXIII (The Larry Thorne Chapter) of the Special Forces Association. He was placed on trial by fellow Chapter XXXIII members under the charge of "failing to use a weapon of sufficient caliber" in the shooting of an intruder at his home in Knoxville , TN , in November.
The court martial, of course, was very much tongue in cheek. The event itself was deadly serious.
Taylor had been awakened in the early morning hours of November 5, 2007,when an intruder broke into his home. He investigated the noises with one of his many weapons in hand.
"It was just after Halloween, on Monday morning at 4:30," Taylor said. I heard this commotion at the door and grabbed my fishing gun, a little .22 revolver, to see what was going on. I got to the front door and this fellow had ripped my security door out of its frame. He said, 'you're going to have to kill me. I'm coming in.'"
When a warning to leave went unheeded, Taylor brought his .22 caliber pistol to bear and shot him right between the eyes.
"I was about four feet away from him when I shot," Taylor said. "Looking back now, I'm glad he didn't die, but that boy had the hardest head I've ever seen. The bullet bounced right off."
The impact knocked the would-be thief down momentarily. He crawled out of the house then got up and ran down the street. Taylor dialed 911 and Knoxville police apprehended the wounded man about 200 yards away, hiding in a hedgerow.
Complicating the case, as well as the court martial, the offender was released on bail but failed to appear for his court date. Knoxville police said the man was homeless. They did not know his whereabouts or why he had been given bail.
The charges brought against Taylor by his fellow Green Berets were considered to be serious. He is a retired Special Forces Weapons Sergeant with extensive combat experience during the wars in Korea and Vietnam.
"Charges were brought against him under the premise that he should have saved the county and taxpayers the expense of a trial," said Chapter XXXIII President Bill Long of Asheville , NC.
The trial was held at the Hampton Inn in Brevard, part of the group's regularly scheduled quarterly meeting. Long appointed a judge, Bert Bates, a defense counsel, Jim Hash, and a prosecutor, Charlie Ponds. All are retired Special Forces non-commissioned officers with extensive combat and weapons experience.
Ponds outlined the case against Taylor, emphasizing that the citizens of Knox County were going to be burdened with significant costs to again apprehend, and then prosecute and defend the would-be burglar.
"Proper choice of a larger caliber gun would have spared the citizens this financial burden," Ponds said, "while removing one bad guy from the streets for good. He could have used a .45 or .38. The .22 just wasn't big enough to get the job done. Hash disagreed. He said Taylor had done the right thing in choosing to arm himself with a 22.
"If he'd used a .45 or something like that the round would have gone right through the perp, the wall, the neighbor's wall and possibly injured some innocent child asleep in its bed. I believe the evidence shows that Smokey Taylor exercised excellent judgment in his choice of weapons. He clearly remains to this day an excellent weapons man."
Hash then floated a theory as to why the bullet bounced off the perp's forehead. "He was victimized by old ammunition," he said, "just as he was in Korea and again in Vietnam , when his units were issued ammo left over from World War II."
Taylor said nothing in his own defense, choosing instead to allow his peers to debate the matter. The jury, consisting of all the members of the Chapter, discussed the merits of choosing a larger caliber weapon as well as the obvious benefits to society of permanently deleting the intruder so he would never again threaten any private citizen.
The other side of the coin, that of accidentally causing injury to a completely innocent citizen if a more powerful gun had been used, also gained considerable support.
Following testimony from both sides, Judge Bates determined the charges should be dismissed. The decision was met with a round of applause. In fact, there was strong sentiment expressed that Taylor should receive an award for not only choosing wisely in picking up the 22, but for the accuracy of his aim under difficult and dangerous conditions.
After the trial Taylor said the ammunition was indeed old and added the new information that the perp had soiled his pants as he crawled out the door. "I would have had an even worse mess to clean up if it had gone through his forehead," Taylor said. "It was good for both of us that it didn't."
Meanwhile, back in Knox County , the word is out: Don't go messing with Smokey Taylor. He just bought a whole bunch of fresh ammo.
Tribune Editor Bill Fishburne is a member of the Larry Thorne Chapter XXXIII of the Special Forces Association.
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That is funny !!! 0 -
good read! 0 -
That's funny. The retired Green Berets know how to have some fun.
I wonder if the bullet bounced off, or if it entered at an angle and just ran around the skull, beneath the scalp. I have seen this happen once with a .22 and once with a .38.
Even if the rounds were old and weak if he had given the bad guy a couple in the chest the story would have had a different outcome.0 -
Same thing happened to me, with a raccoon, a while back.
Aimed right between the eyes, pulled the trigger, and PI$$ED him off.
WHAT??? [:0][:0]
When he settled down, I took another shot, same place, same result.
Decided to put the next one in the neck. That worked.
Looked later, and saw that the two previous shots had broken skin, but bounced off.
Smokey and I both know better now.
Use enough gun. [:D][:D]0 -
It's CourtS-Martial with an S, not Court Martial, and he should have known better.[;)]
Trinity +++0 -
quote:Originally posted by TrinityScrimshaw
It's CourtS-Martial with an S, not Court Martial, and he should have known better.[;)]
Trinity +++
actually, either is correct. the ucmj refers to both.
826. ART. 26. MILITARY JUDGE OF A GENERAL OR SPECIAL COURT-MARTIAL0 -
The UCMJ stands for Uniform Code of Military Justice, MCM stands for Mannual for CourtS-Martial.
I a 2000 edition of the MCM on my desk in front of me and I can't find anywhere in it where they spell it with out an S.
Trinity +++0 -
I bet the guy had one hell of a head ache.[xx(] 0 -
quote:Originally posted by TrinityScrimshaw
The UCMJ stands for Uniform Code of Military Justice, MCM stands for Mannual for CourtS-Martial.
I a 2000 edition of the MCM on my desk in front of me and I can't find anywhere in it where they spell it with out an S.
Trinity +++
http://www.army.mil/references/UCMJ/index.html#SUBCHAPTER IV. COURT-MARTIAL JURISDICTION
also, specifically:
826. ART. 26. MILITARY JUDGE OF A GENERAL OR SPECIAL COURT-MARTIAL0 -
no doubt the slime thought he had an easy victim when he saw an old man! [:D][:D]old dont mean you are defensless, [:D]...except here[V] old people are victims of horrendous crimes every week because they cant have anything now to defend themselves legally[:(!] 0 -
Can you have muzzleloaders in Australia? 0 -
hey allen, ...yes...they are classed as catagory "b" weapons...the same as any centre fire rifles..and of course have to be registered!..shotguns and rimfife rifles ans airrifles are catogory "a"..hand guns are "h"...semi aute .22 rifles and semi auto and pump shotguns with a magazine capacity of no more than 5 rounds forshotguns and 10 for rifles are "c"....semi auto rifles and shotguns and pump guns with a magazine capacity of more than 10 for rifles and more than 5 for shotguns are "d"..farmers can sometimes get a "c" licence..."d" is for cops and not many others!there are 8 "excuses for having guns here...
1 is sport or target shooting.
2 is ..recreational hunting or vermin control.
3 is ..primary production = farmers.
4 is..animal population control.
5 is..animal welfare.
6 is buisness or employment as a firearms dealer,securityguard, or security agent.
7 is..firearms collection.
8 is ..show or exhibition.
and thats about it..for the average gun owner catagory "a" and "b"" are the usual ones...and the reasons are "1 or "2"...
it sux big time, but its law...and one day it may come to you as well....never let your guard down!0 -
What does it take to become a security agent or guard ??
Doug0 -
im not sure doug...first you would have to be hired by a security company then do a catogory "h" licence course...i do know that that is the minimum, other than that, im not sure.
another thing i do know about the law here is, you can only use your weapon as a security guard if your life is directly threatened...if you shoot some scum bag whose stolen money etc. then you can and most likely will be charged with unlawful wounding, or manslaughter....maybe get 6 to 12 monthe jail time.
i wouldnt have the mentallity for that line of work...if i saw someone with a gun coming towards me and i had a gun i would get my shot off first if i could!!0 -
quote:Originally posted by Doug Wilson
What does it take to become a security agent or guard ??
Doug
Here in Florida, you need a Class D license for unarmed Security, which also requires a federal background check, and 40 hours of in class training followed by a 100 question test. Then there is an addition of a class G license which allows you to work as an armed Security officer, and for that you have to qualify for 1 day at the range, and then theres classroom instruction on use of deadly force.0
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