Gun/load for backcountry protection - Utah
Should be doing some backcountry fishing this year in the High Unita mountains with my boys. Obviously, my 9mm, .38, and .22 will only piss a bear off so I need some suggestions. .44 is probably the way to go but what load to you suggest?
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Dr
I grew up on a ranch in the Uintas and have fished, hunted and worked cattle in them thar hills all my life.
First, I have seen two bear in all those years and both were going away from me as fast as they could go.
The other is that quite simply we don't have problems with the bear in that area that others seem to have.
They are smaller in size and not nearly as agressive as other black or brown bear are over the years.
Now having said that, the best advice is to carry what you practice with the most and are again, the most familiar.
Where are you going to carry and how so you have easy, fast access to it.
You will have little or no time to fumble for a gun and the best thing is to make as much noise as you can possibly make.
Carrying "larger" caliber guns is not the answer for several reasons.
One being that you are NOT familiar or as accurate with it and it appears you will have little or no time to get that way.
The other is very simple, when people buy big calibers it means more money for ammo and more recoil every time you pull the trigger and that means you will NOT practice with it enough to get really, really good with it.
So if you have or currently own a good 45 acp or 357 mag and are familiar and accurate with them, go out and practice with either of them as much as you can between now and the beginning of fishing season.
Then when you have a chance to get to the good fishing and weather, go out and enjoy yourself, forget about the bear and worry about MOOSE. They are far more prevelent and much more dangerous or unpredictable than the bear in our area will or have ever been.
Enjoy and good luck on your fishing. People who have never been in that country are not aware of how beautiful and how good the fishing is and because of that, there are not many up there to compete with.
UncleFudd0 -
I carry either a .357 or a .45LC, but have yet to have need of either. 0 -
Cop a gauge bro.
D.0 -
Go for a .44 Mag, look here for the best loads:
http://www.garrettcartridges.com/
http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm0 -
Your chances of needing any kind of a gun in the back country is virtually nil. If you want to carry, then carry, but don't kid yourself into thinking you will need it. 0 -
A short 12 gauge slug gun with a shoulder sling like the Alaska guides and wildlife professionals do. extra capacity tube extension would be nice. Stopping power for amything. 0 -
quote:Your chances of needing any kind of a gun in the back country is virtually nil. If you want to carry, then carry, but don't kid yourself into thinking you will need it.
He "probably" won't, but there is an old saying for that....
Jon0 -
I know that many people will disagree, having not done the research, but a can of bear spray is far more effective than any handgun you can carry. When I am hiking in grizz areas, I have a revolver and two cans of bear spray. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by glabray
Your chances of needing any kind of a gun in the back country is virtually nil. If you want to carry, then carry, but don't kid yourself into thinking you will need it.Its better to have a gun and not need it. I hope you dont kid yourself into thinking that fooey doesnt happen.0 -
Smith and Wesson 500 0 -
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The best way to avoid these bear problems is to stay out of those places.
I've watched on the Discovery or TLC channel where these groups of look-alike tree-hugger types (younger, 30ish types, coke-bottle glasses, bald, bearded, hiking shorts, walking staffs, etc.) are all gathered around Ranger Rick getting the lecture on how to survive a bear attack while hiking in "their" neighborhood. What nonsense! Why the hell are these naive, delusional idiots, with their plain-jane earth-mother women with braided hair under their arms chumming for bear with their bodies? To repay humankind's past transgressions against all bears? What is their major malfunction???
BS! If you go there, be prepared for anything, including any bears you see "running away from you". All, the better, but if they are running at you, I like the idea of the short-barreled shotgun, but for me it would be too heavy. Chris' advice of, "When I am hiking in grizz areas, I have a revolver and two cans of bear spray." is very good advice. A 6-inch barreled .44magnum in a shoulder holster would be best. Use the heaviest load, heaviest bullet. FMJ's would probably be best. Make your own shoulder holster out of soft, sueded leather or buy one of those cheap nylon or canvas ones. The expensive ones don't feel very good to me. Have a tie-string on the holster so you can tie off the holster to your belt. A big knife such as the inexpensive, $50 Ka-Bar US Marine knife (carbon steel, high quality) is also a good idea. Carry a smaller knife for camp chores and skinning. And, remember, what's good for the bear is good for the moose, too.0 -
Having spent a fair amount of time in the Uintas myself. I would be more worried about the moose. Ive taken scouts up there a few times, I did carry a .45 1911, and hang the weeks worth of food in a net in the tree only because I didnt want the trip cut short for having bear take the food while we were out of camp hiking. Sad thing is we have had a couple black bear attacks here closer to town, in the last few years one death of a young lad and one girl drug off . make sure camp is clean and any food is cleaned up, no dirty dishes. and all people in camp have cleaned hands and face before going to bed to eliminate food smell on them, clothes and in the tent. Keep food away from camp a short distance to be sure. More than likely a rock would scare a black bear off . its the food they want , if the smell is attached to a sleeping kid... its bad news
p.s. edit
I had the 1911 .45 to protect myself from the scouts0 -
quote:Originally posted by glabray
Your chances of needing any kind of a gun in the back country is virtually nil. If you want to carry, then carry, but don't kid yourself into thinking you will need it.
Do you have guns in your house for "protection"? Most likely you do since you are part of this forum. I think your kidding yourself you will need it in your house. (insert scarcasm) I believe the Boy Scout motto is "Be Prepared" - all I'm doing, my friend. If I don't need it, great! If I do and I don't have it, well then I'm royally screwed.0 -
i would suggest the largest,most powerful firearm you are comfortable with. Better to be overgunned than undergunned. 0 -
i would suggest the largest,most powerful firearm you are comfortable with. Better to be overgunned than undergunned. 0 -
You are way more likely to have problems with 2 legged varmets than anything with 4. A properly loaded and equiped combat Rem 870 owns about 100 yards if you are game. 0 -
Hey drstroud and sawz;
If you guys are familiar with the area, then you know there are no Grzz there since Grzz Adams left in the late 1800s.
The only bear we have now are the small black bear and they are historically, not agressive.
It is entirely different than fishing or hiking around Yellowstone or South down to Pinedale etc where they have an abundance of Grizz.
My suggestion would remain the same for handgun choice even there. And I put my money where my mouth is. I fish and hike there a lot also and have for most of my life. I carry the same gun that I normally do for two legged wads.
I carry wherever I go in town or out, every day, every place I go. But common sense tells you to use the gun you are most familiar with and a caliber that will have some affect IF you ever have to use it. IF it comes to that, you better be able to hit what you shoot at IF you get it out in time to use it at all. But making noise will probably do more good for those small black bear than anything you need to do.
As I said, the real danger in that area is and has been the large population of moose. They are very unpredictable, extremely strong and very, very dangerous. Add to that, they are nearly blind but have a sense of smell superior to nearly every other animal in the forest, they can be and have a history of being difficult to get along with. I had my own personal experience with one in that area south of Evanston Wy when I was in high school and will never forget it and I still thank God for helping me and my friend that day.
Bear spray is as mentioned a very good choice from all I have read about it. But remember guys, we are not "hunting" bear we are trying to avoid them. I said running away as in you can't shoot at it even if you want too. The other was to help make the point that they are for the most part very cowardly. Not to say you may find a nasty tempered boar or even worse a pregnant or sow with cubs that could change the equasion. Then the best tool is to use "shanks ponies" and get the hell out of her territory.
I don't argue with carrying, but I do wonder at people who buy huge caliber pistols, never shoot them enough to get to be good with them and then expect to be able to use them in emergency and even come close to hitting your intended target. It will not happen.
Good luck on your fishing anyway as it is a wonderful place to go and good fishing for having done so.
UF0 -
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I remember back in the early '70s going camping in a remote campground in the Mogollon (mug'-ee-'yohn) mountains in New Mexico. We found a ford in the creek, drove across and found a single, isolated camp spot under some very large trees near the creek.
We cleared a space, disposed of anything remotely resembling something of interest to bears or predators and removed the garbage can about 100 yards south of us to an area behind some scrub oaks. We pitched our very tiny nylon tent (smaller than a WWII GI pup tent), cooked our dinner, burned our trash and cans and carried the burned-out cans out to the garbage can. Remaining food we burned and then carried the remnants of the campfire out about 100 yards and buried it about 12" down. Our food was stored in tight containers in the vehicle. So, we thought we did everything right.
After turning in and going to sleep, I was awakened by a huge bear prowling around. He tripped over the guy rope on the tent. He huffed and puffed and swatted at the tent. I sat up, grabbed my .357 Blackhawk and resisting the urge to blast the bear, I picked up a metal bucket and rattled the gun around inside of the bucket, frightening the bear about 30 feet from the tent. By that time my girlfriend woke up and was hysterical. The bear tried to hide behind a tree, but he was so big it was almost funny.
We went to the vehicle, got inside and started it up. Turning on the headlights, we saw no fewer than six very large black bears in, I guess, every shade possible. I don't think these were grizzly bears, but they were very large. There was a dark brown one, one almost blond one, a chestnut one, and other variations. None of them were the same exact color. There was not one that was actually black.
I landed on the vehicle horn horn and they hauled ass to the east of us, jumping in the creek. The next morning we took a short hike across the creek and up the dirt road about a half mile to a camp area with about ten sites in close proximity to one another. It looked like a hurricane had passed through there. The bears had torn up three campers on trucks, virtually destroyed a camp trailer carried off someone's dog and generally raised hell. The rangers brought in their drain-pipe bear trap and wanted us to move so they could place the trap in our camp spot. We told them no, we could deal with any problems. They put the trap across the creek and up the road, but didn't catch any bears.
The Blackhawk retained the little nicks all over the barrel from my using it to bang on the inside of the bucket. I'm glad I didn't shoot the bear.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Classic095
Smith and Wesson 500
Yeah get the orange emergency kit gimmick with the "bear survival" stories.0 -
Being new to the forum, I still have a lot to learn.
Is it possible to send a private message relative to a post/ If so how does one go about doing it?
I am fairly novice at computers and don't know much about making them work so your help will be very much appr3eciated.
UF0 -
get the biggest thing you can stand to carry. 0 -
Hi UncleFudd
To send a message to someone, you can click on their name in your case 'UncleFudd' it takes you to a page where, if the other member has entered the information you can send them an e-mail.0 -
When I lived in Alaska I always had my 12 gauge with slugs. Bears where I lived were all over the place. Mostly black bears though and they are typicall weenies. 0 -
Thanks for the help with the email.
I must still be doing something wrong.
So out in the open
drstroud and sawz if you have a minute send ME an email. Sounds like we may have some interesting places to visit in th eUintas or more perhaps in that great area.
UncleFudd[:D]0
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