Interesting article on the .357 Magnum
I've been doing a lot of reading on this cartridge as it is what I will be starting with in my reloading hobby. Found this interesting article and thought I'd share.
http://www.leverguns.com/articles/taylor/357magnum.htm
http://www.leverguns.com/articles/taylor/357magnum.htm
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That good, thanks! 0 -
A few comments on the article.
The article specified 1510 fps for factory loads from a pistol with an 8-3/4" barrel in 1936. Assuming that number is correct, that would represent an extraordinarily powerful load by today's standards.
Today you'd be lucky to get 1350fps from a 158 grain round from a factory load, and many of them are slower than that. For example, Federal specifies 1250fps muzzle velocity for their 158 grain Hydroshock rounds, presumeably from a 4" barrel.
http://www.federalpremium.com/ballistics/Ammo_Search.aspx?act=choose&firearm=2&s1=1
Since energy is proportionate to the square of velocity, the difference between 1250 and 1500 fps translates into 40% more muzzle energy in the hotter round. Its a difference between 550 ft-lbs in the modern round to nearly 800, putting the older .357 magnum loads nearly into .44 magnum energy levels from a long-barrelled gun.
That alone could explain some of the difference in suitability of the 357 for hunting Elk or Bear in 1938 vs 2008. It was literally a different round then.
Along this vein, because of a combination of factors the .357 magnum is a notoriously inefficient round. When fired, the .357 usually generates a huge fireball/flash because of powder that goes unburned until after the bullet has left the barrel. This unburned powder greatly contributes to the flame cutting that can erode the topstrap of revolvers, and is partially responsible for the reputation of the .357 as a gun-destroying round. Its this latter tendency of the 357 to burn out guns that was responsible for the gradual downloading of the 357 to its more current levels.
The flip side of this inefficiency is a pretty dramatic increase in velocity/energy when chambered in a rifle. You can take a heavy load and get over 1700 fps muzzle velocity from a full barrelled rifle with a full 158 grain bullet!
Very few police depts today are using the .357 mainly because almost all of them have switched away from wheelguns to autos (for higher capacity). That transition was catalyzed by the rapid emergence of crack cocaine in the 80s.
Some of the depts that were still using wheelguns got around the use of the evil "magnum" round by using .38 special "+P+" ("police only") rounds that for practical purposes are .357 magnums.0 -
I have been reading that most revolvers chambered for .357 really aren't suppossed to be fed a steady diet of magnums. Is this correct?
One that most people seem to say is the exception is the Ruger GP100. This this correct as well?0 -
Well beantown it seems they might have "super charged" the 357 cartridge.
Very interesting article.
quote:1936
Elmer Keith
"When the new .357 cartridge and gun came out I gave it a very thorough tryout ... and found it had more actual knockdown killing power on all game that I shot with it than any other factory loaded, real revolver cartridge on the market.... (It) proved to have much more actual shock effect and killing power ...than any factory loaded revolver or auto pistol cartridge including the .44 Special and the .45 Colt..."0 -
i think it is absolutely hilarious when people talk about the .357 magnum as a weak defense round, to me it really shows ignorance in my opinion
quote:Some of the depts that were still using wheelguns got around the use of the evil "magnum" round by using .38 special "+P+" ("police only") rounds that for practical purposes are .357 magnums.
bean where did you get the information that +p+ was ever a police only round?0 -
Very interesting comment on the use of it on NVA 'armor' - I've never heard that, although I'm not surprised, but I am impressed. I'd have thought the .45 would have at least penetrated (one way fer sure)! I wonder how thick the plate was. Anyone know?
[:D]0 -
I would not be interested in defending myself against African Elephants, Cape buffalo, rhino's with a .357, Or a pair of .357's 0 -
The Lapua factory 158gr. SJHP (4319218) has a published 1542 fps at the muzzle. That's current enough for me. I have been reloading this round since the early 70s, and have quite a few VHV(very high velocity) recipes for up to 180 gr. Noslers and Barnes solids. I even have a favorite load that uses a 200gr lead bullet a la the JDJ fodder.
Winchester might still catalog their 105gr JSP, it use dto push about 1650 as I recall.
Most of Hornady's 125gr. XTP stuff goes 1500fps, as do the Black Hills Gold Dots.
I have fired literally hundreds of thousands of rounds through my Security Six ( bought new in 1973), and it doesn't look half as sturdy as the GP100s. Not sure if a Smith or Colt would have taken all those rounds without having to go back to the factory for some sort of repair or tuneup or something.0 -
For the EXPERTS out there. The .357 mag. is not the .357 Maxium, The max is the one that will cut the back strap, I've never seen a mag. ruined that way. As for it being a woosie round do be sure not to get hit by one. Hot loading the round for the rifle makes a great hunting round. Just make sure you mark your rounds as you load them as the hot round will try to break your wrist in a pistol. ( I know ) 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Da-Tank
For the EXPERTS out there. The .357 mag. is not the .357 Maxium, The max is the one that will cut the back strap, I've never seen a mag. ruined that way. As for it being a woosie round do be sure not to get hit by one. Hot loading the round for the rifle makes a great hunting round. Just make sure you mark your rounds as you load them as the hot round will try to break your wrist in a pistol. ( I know )
My M-28 shows evidence of flame-cutting from seriously hot .357 Magnum loads. At this rate, I figure the old gal only has another two or three hundred years left in her.0 -
quote:Originally posted by meunke
I have been reading that most revolvers chambered for .357 really aren't suppossed to be fed a steady diet of magnums. Is this correct?
One that most people seem to say is the exception is the Ruger GP100. This this correct as well?
I shot an N Frame Smith&Wesson mdl 28 .357 mag somewhere in the neighborhood of 35,000 rounds of some hot reloads. I traded it in and it was still shooting fine.0 -
I used to buy Norma .357's. They were very close to the orig. loading. And remember, the orig. registered magnums of the '30's were "N" frames and cylinders. That equates to an awful lot of steel around the chambers. Ever look at the back of a 38/44 HD S&W cylinder? Looks like a bank vault. Best, Joe 0 -
quote:Originally posted by zipperzap
Very interesting comment on the use of it on NVA 'armor' - I've never heard that, although I'm not surprised, but I am impressed. I'd have thought the .45 would have at least penetrated (one way fer sure)! I wonder how thick the plate was. Anyone know?
[:D]The .45 ACP is excellent for straight up anti-personnel use, but is seriously lacking whenever any sort of barrier penetration is required. That was the reason for Colt introducing 1911's in .38 Super.
An example is that, despite it being available at the local hardware store, in the highway bandit era of the early 30's the Thompson wasn't actually the preferred weapon due to the introduction of body armor and the heavy construction of those old cars. Clyde Barrow is often portrayed as blazing away with one, but in reality he nor anyone in his gang ever carried it. By his own statements his preferred weapon was in fact the BAR due to it's greater penetration of car bodies. Notice too that the group of lawmen that hunted down and ambushed them weren't carrying a single Thompson, instead they were all carrying full power rifles. Although he had access to any weapons he wished, Texas Ranger Frank Hamer chose a Remington Model 8 with a special order high capacity magazine and a .38 Super 1911 for hunting them down.
Hamer's rifle:
The guns Barrow was carrying when ambushed. Two of these 1911's were reportedly .38 Supers:0 -
Thanks for the post, Meunke. .357 is my favorite handgun round. I've already got a GP100, but a have a of .357s on my "hope I can afford one day" list. 0 -
Long years ago I subscribed to "Shooting Times" magazine, mostly because Skeeter Skelton wrote for them. I nearly quit them after reading an article disparaging the .357. Whoever wrote the article (not Skelton_ said that the .357 was ok for game up to the size of coyotes"! My thought was to let him stand ant one end of a football field, I would stand at the other and I would shoot at him and see what he thought about using the gun for "coyote sized game". 0
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