gotta love those catholics!
Just went you think the Catholic church, those good people who gave Hitler a hand, who rape children, who took until the 1950's to admit that Galileo was right, can't go any lower, along comes this. . .
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Rwanda's Ghosts Haunt the Church
Survivors Still Struggle With Catholic Priests' Involvement in 1994 Genocide
By Jason Kane
Religion News Service
Saturday, January 5, 2008; B09
KIGALI, Rwanda
Gloriosa Uwimpuhwe stopped going to church years ago. Burdened by the memory of the 800,000 victims of the 1994 genocide, she hesitates to step foot in the sacred places where women were raped in pews, where children were slaughtered against brick walls.
They are events too hard to forget, she says, and, apparently, too ghastly for her priest to address. Often when she attended Mass, she would notice his gaze wander almost to the genocide memorial just beyond the church door.
"He's almost looking there when he speaks, but his eyes don't go all the way. His eyes just stop, and he reads us what's in the Bible without establishing any connections to the reality we have lived and to the reality we are living," she said.
He talks, she said, "like nothing happened."
It's a problem that many here say plagues Rwanda's Catholic Church, which once laid claim to six in 10 Rwandans. Nearly 14 years after this tiny nation collapsed into mass murder, the church still struggles to reclaim its moral authority. Many like Uwimpuhwe say reconciliation efforts are undermined as some try to whitewash the church's role in the bloodshed.
So some Sundays, Uwimpuhwe prays alone near the mass grave of genocide victims. She considers herself Catholic, but still cannot trust a church that she says condoned -- or turned a blind eye toward -- mass murder.
"I live in disappointments with the church people," she said.
The snapshots of the horror conducted by men of God hover like mist over Rwanda and the church. The stories, by now, are well known: nuns helping Hutu death squads murder thousands of minority Tutsis inside a convent; priests manning roadblocks to identify people for slaughter; a priest who ordered his church bulldozed while it swelled with 2,000 Tutsis seeking sanctuary.
Other stories circulated about the church itself -- of a hierarchy that condoned ethnic hatred from the pulpit, and of top church leaders who held positions of prominence in the Hutu government that orchestrated the genocide.
"Still now, there are many issues which are not cleared," said Paul Rutayisire, a history professor at the National University of Rwanda. "The church has not completely regained its legitimacy."
Yet, countless Catholics did resist the calls to hatred, often becoming victims themselves. Three bishops, 169 priests and more than 50 nuns died, along with thousands of faithful.
"Of course, Catholics being the majority, you see that most of those committing the genocide have been Catholics," said Jean Claude Ngendandumwe, who manages the church's peace and reconciliation program in Rwanda. "But also most of those being killed were also Catholics."
Early on, Pope John Paul II was among the first to use the word "genocide" for what was unfolding in Rwanda, and within a month, he admitted the participation of some church leaders. Then came silence. Hutu priests charged with involvement either fled or washed the blood from their hands and continued preaching.
Tom Ndahiro, a former member of Rwanda's Human Rights Commission, visited churches in the aftermath and saw Catholics conducting services next to decomposing corpses.
"They would push the bodies away and pray," he said. "And all the while, they kept preaching forgiveness -- blind forgiveness -- to the survivors, because so many of their priests and bishops were implicated."
As years passed, critics say the church closed itself off, refusing to cooperate with the new Tutsi-led government. It declined a top-to-bottom internal investigation, and many took that silence as a de facto confession.
Victims' advocates are particularly angry that most churches have yet to erect memorials to the slaughter. Rome eventually agreed for two churches to be preserved in the state they were found after the genocide. In Nyamata, the stained-glass windows are still shattered. The altar cloth is still soaked red with blood; the rosaries of the dead lie gathered in a bowl.
Church officials say it would be inappropriate -- and impractical -- to shut down every house of worship that saw bloodshed. Memorial plaques in every sanctuary would also detract from national reconciliation. It's a position that Ndahiro, the former human rights commissioner, rejects.
"In my view, accepting to make them memorials would stick into the books of history that the church failed," he said. "Much as they failed to act during the genocide, silence is still there today."
__________________________________________________________________
Rwanda's Ghosts Haunt the Church
Survivors Still Struggle With Catholic Priests' Involvement in 1994 Genocide
By Jason Kane
Religion News Service
Saturday, January 5, 2008; B09
KIGALI, Rwanda
Gloriosa Uwimpuhwe stopped going to church years ago. Burdened by the memory of the 800,000 victims of the 1994 genocide, she hesitates to step foot in the sacred places where women were raped in pews, where children were slaughtered against brick walls.
They are events too hard to forget, she says, and, apparently, too ghastly for her priest to address. Often when she attended Mass, she would notice his gaze wander almost to the genocide memorial just beyond the church door.
"He's almost looking there when he speaks, but his eyes don't go all the way. His eyes just stop, and he reads us what's in the Bible without establishing any connections to the reality we have lived and to the reality we are living," she said.
He talks, she said, "like nothing happened."
It's a problem that many here say plagues Rwanda's Catholic Church, which once laid claim to six in 10 Rwandans. Nearly 14 years after this tiny nation collapsed into mass murder, the church still struggles to reclaim its moral authority. Many like Uwimpuhwe say reconciliation efforts are undermined as some try to whitewash the church's role in the bloodshed.
So some Sundays, Uwimpuhwe prays alone near the mass grave of genocide victims. She considers herself Catholic, but still cannot trust a church that she says condoned -- or turned a blind eye toward -- mass murder.
"I live in disappointments with the church people," she said.
The snapshots of the horror conducted by men of God hover like mist over Rwanda and the church. The stories, by now, are well known: nuns helping Hutu death squads murder thousands of minority Tutsis inside a convent; priests manning roadblocks to identify people for slaughter; a priest who ordered his church bulldozed while it swelled with 2,000 Tutsis seeking sanctuary.
Other stories circulated about the church itself -- of a hierarchy that condoned ethnic hatred from the pulpit, and of top church leaders who held positions of prominence in the Hutu government that orchestrated the genocide.
"Still now, there are many issues which are not cleared," said Paul Rutayisire, a history professor at the National University of Rwanda. "The church has not completely regained its legitimacy."
Yet, countless Catholics did resist the calls to hatred, often becoming victims themselves. Three bishops, 169 priests and more than 50 nuns died, along with thousands of faithful.
"Of course, Catholics being the majority, you see that most of those committing the genocide have been Catholics," said Jean Claude Ngendandumwe, who manages the church's peace and reconciliation program in Rwanda. "But also most of those being killed were also Catholics."
Early on, Pope John Paul II was among the first to use the word "genocide" for what was unfolding in Rwanda, and within a month, he admitted the participation of some church leaders. Then came silence. Hutu priests charged with involvement either fled or washed the blood from their hands and continued preaching.
Tom Ndahiro, a former member of Rwanda's Human Rights Commission, visited churches in the aftermath and saw Catholics conducting services next to decomposing corpses.
"They would push the bodies away and pray," he said. "And all the while, they kept preaching forgiveness -- blind forgiveness -- to the survivors, because so many of their priests and bishops were implicated."
As years passed, critics say the church closed itself off, refusing to cooperate with the new Tutsi-led government. It declined a top-to-bottom internal investigation, and many took that silence as a de facto confession.
Victims' advocates are particularly angry that most churches have yet to erect memorials to the slaughter. Rome eventually agreed for two churches to be preserved in the state they were found after the genocide. In Nyamata, the stained-glass windows are still shattered. The altar cloth is still soaked red with blood; the rosaries of the dead lie gathered in a bowl.
Church officials say it would be inappropriate -- and impractical -- to shut down every house of worship that saw bloodshed. Memorial plaques in every sanctuary would also detract from national reconciliation. It's a position that Ndahiro, the former human rights commissioner, rejects.
"In my view, accepting to make them memorials would stick into the books of history that the church failed," he said. "Much as they failed to act during the genocide, silence is still there today."
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yep, regardless of their religion most black africans will revert to tribalism the first chance they get.
any excuse will do to rape, and age does`nt save a victim.
look whats happening in kenya right now, thousands will die there and the world will do nothing about it.
kenya has been seen as one of the most stable countries anywhere in africa, some joke hey?
like i said, any excuse will do....0 -
man!! i cant believe it!!![:(!][:(!][:(!].i just heard on thew news here that my government is going to give one million dollars to kenya !!!!
why the hell should my money go to them murdering meanies!!!![:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!]0 -
Don't blame the Church. It's the people who havent civilized in the several hundred years they've been exposed to civilizing influences.
Liberia is the foremost example. It was exposed to constitutional government almost as long as the U.S. has but reverted to anarchy, savagery and cannabalism.
Read about Gordon and Khartum in Sudan in the early 1800s.
Africa hasn't changed except spears and machetes have become AK47s.
Interesting, that Korea can go from the most primitive society to the 20th century in one generation while sub Saharan Africa hasn't done it in many.0 -
quote:Originally posted by mlincoln
Just went you think the Catholic church, those good people who gave Hitler a hand, who rape children, who took until the 1950's to admit that Galileo was right, can't go any lower, along comes this. . .
ok the child raping thing i get. however if memory serves me correctly the catholics were among those rounded up and shipped to camps and murdered by hitlers regime. jews, gypsies homosexuals and catholics were in there to i beleive. and the next question is galileo was right about what? do you have facts to support your anti-catholicism rant, or you just running off at the mouth? just because some people in a church do some bad things doesnt make the church bad. im sure there were some baptist and presbyterians present at the mei lai massacre, and even some that helped our government eradicate unruly native americans. that doesnt make the baptist and the presbyterians bad, just what some of their members did.0 -
quote:Originally posted by wlfmn323
and the next question is galileo was right about what? do you have facts to support your anti-catholicism rant,
are you asking for proof that the earth revolves around the sun, and not the other way around?[:D][:D][:D]
anyways catholicism and fascism have allways been close allies
when the church has not been directly responsible it has at least turned a blind eye to fascism,
neutrality during the holocaust, aligning themslves with the fascists in spain and italy, and then if you wanna go way back the inquisition and the burning of people at the stake , c'mon
and now all this with the turning a blind eye to child molesting priests, the track record of this organization called the catholic church is sickening0 -
quote:Originally posted by v35
Liberia is the foremost example. It was exposed to constitutional government almost as long as the U.S. has but reverted to anarchy, savagery and cannabalism.
also, not to hijack the thread but Anarchy is an inapropriate word for the situation, Chaos, and dissarray brought on by bad government giving power and controll to bad greedy men would be more appropriate,0 -
hijack away, this is an open forum, everyone is entitled to their opinion, thats what we are all here for, to tell others OUR opinion...we dont have to agree with each other at all, but its good to get different opinions on things. 0 -
Never heard of the Religion News Service....Is that some whacked out lunatic fundachristo agency dedicated to serving American baptists and their KKK masters? You know not a lot of people here want to talk about the close ties that American southern baptists and the KKK forged over the years. I guess the tribal violence and hatred that I saw daily in Somalia by those uncivilized African savages is also mirrored daily in the hate demonstrated by the many lunatic fundachristos in this nation. The number of white baptists implicated in KKK violence is as staggering as Rwanda's numbers. Beach 0 -
I heard it was the Godless Commies[:I] 0 -
quote:Posted - 01/06/2008 : 12:35:22 AM
Don't blame the Church. It's the people who havent civilized in the several hundred years they've been exposed to civilizing influences.
Liberia is the foremost example. It was exposed to constitutional government almost as long as the U.S. has but reverted to anarchy, savagery and cannabalism.
Read about Gordon and Khartum in Sudan in the early 1800s.
Africa hasn't changed except spears and machetes have become AK47s.
Interesting, that Korea can go from the most primitive society to the 20th century in one generation while sub Saharan Africa hasn't done it in many.
Would the above also apply to MUSLIMS?? Dont blame their religion, blame the extremists, Is that what you mean?0
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