Entry AR15
ATF states that you need a Class III for a rifle with a bbl length of less than 16" correct?
So the 11.5" AR entry rifle needs a Class III. Am I wrong in assuming that it costs $200 for the stamp and a mound of paperwork?
I've been communicating quite a bit with the gentleman that wants me to join his Fugitive recovery team, and he has the 11.5" with a suppressor and an H&K Mk23 suppressed as well.
I really like the Bushmaster 14.5" M4A3. With the Izzy suppressor, it reaches 16". Is that legal for me or do I need to go with a full 16"?
Also, for those that use them. Do you find a 16" to slow you down in tight spaces or is it ok?
So the 11.5" AR entry rifle needs a Class III. Am I wrong in assuming that it costs $200 for the stamp and a mound of paperwork?
I've been communicating quite a bit with the gentleman that wants me to join his Fugitive recovery team, and he has the 11.5" with a suppressor and an H&K Mk23 suppressed as well.
I really like the Bushmaster 14.5" M4A3. With the Izzy suppressor, it reaches 16". Is that legal for me or do I need to go with a full 16"?
Also, for those that use them. Do you find a 16" to slow you down in tight spaces or is it ok?
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14.5 w/ a flash suppressor that makes it a total of 16" is ok, as long as the flash suppressor is permanantly mounted, not threaded.
the 11.5 will is/will be a short barreled rifle requiring a $200 tax stamp and the whole nfa paperwork process.0 -
You are correct you need a tax stamp from the BATF. that tax stamp is 200 dollars. There is two ways going about for the paper work. 1)go through you local LEO for a signoff saying its legal for you to own one in your state, and a photo and fingerprints 2) get yourself a revokable living trust, and follow the same paperwork but minus the LEO signiture, photo and fingerprints.
As far as the suppressor (silencer) that will be an additional tax stamp and form. If you get a flash suppressor (the IZZY) it has to be welded on for it to count as 16"
check this place for some info ar15.com
quote:Originally posted by cubslover
ATF states that you need a Class III for a rifle with a bbl length of less than 16" correct?
So the 11.5" AR entry rifle needs a Class III. Am I wrong in assuming that it costs $200 for the stamp and a mound of paperwork?
I've been communicating quite a bit with the gentleman that wants me to join his Fugitive recovery team, and he has the 11.5" with a suppressor and an H&K Mk23 suppressed as well.
I really like the Bushmaster 14.5" M4A3. With the Izzy suppressor, it reaches 16". Is that legal for me or do I need to go with a full 16"?
Also, for those that use them. Do you find a 16" to slow you down in tight spaces or is it ok?0 -
All of the above is correct.
Cubs,
If your catching the Class III fever...check out this thread I posted....lots of good info on the living trusts...including a link to ar15.com site with even more info...like member 13to posted.
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=266260&SearchTerms=trust,for,nfa0 -
Ha. Not necessarily catching the fever. Just trying to decide on which rifle I can order without needing a Stamp. I really like the Carbon 15....
http://www.bushmaster.com/catalog_carbon15_AZ-C15BMP21S.asp
But, I'm not paying an extra $200 for it.
I guess I'll order this...(this one is legal correct?)
http://www.bushmaster.com/catalog_xm15_BCWA3F14M4IZ.asp0 -
Yup. The key words are in red.
M4 Profile 14.5" Barrel (designed to accept M203 Grenade Launcher) with permanently attached "Izzy" Flash Suppressor for a total barrel length of 16". Barrels are Hard Chrome lined in both Bore and Chamber for long life and ease of cleaning.
EDIT: If you want something "small", take a look at this:
http://atlanticfirearms.com/programming/expand.asp?Prodid=374
For something really, really small...take a look at my latest buy, will be picking up tomorrow. My transfer dealer rec'd it today.[:D]
(Hurry...before the link gets poofed!!!)
http://www.gunrunnerauctions.com/listings/details/index.cfm?itemnum=8835423470 -
In your opinion, would that make an adequate entry rifle? 0 -
Cubs,
see the above "edited" post...click on the links!
BTW, I'd go Bushie for a 16" AR.0 -
Nice, I get mine NIB for $600. 0 -
I own a few rifles some SBR's but if i could this would be my CQB weapon, http://www.knightarmco.com/images/pdw1.html KAC makes the real deal and with a 6mm bullet you are talking ballistic power from a small weapon. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by cubslover
In your opinion, would that make an adequate entry rifle?
Adequate, yes, good, no. The best entry weapons are subgun sized. If you don't want to deal with the NFA rules, than that one will work.
Also if you are getting a 16" I'd go with a heavy barrel and mid length handguard. You'll get better accuracy, higher velocity, and better reliabilty. Total legnth is the same and you'll be at 7.5lbs instead of 7.0 -
quote:Originally posted by cubslover
Nice, I get mine NIB for $600. Damn! Lucky dog![}:)]0 -
The M4A3 with the Izzy is not considered a SBR in Indiana.
I've had one of the carbon AR's awhile back it was a great shooting rifle. Really light. It was really loud though. Mine had a compensator and not a flash hider. I don't know if that made the differance in noise.
Me and my grandpa was chasing a wild dog though his woods. It was really tight with trees and brush really close to each other. I never could get a shot due to it being so tight. I don't see how people do it indoors. I would think a submachine gun or pistol would be the way to go.
What does Tori think about this new job venture your considering? I know I wouldn't like it. Just be careful, sweetie.
Traci0 -
quote:Originally posted by Cutiegirlracing
The M4A3 with the Izzy is not considered a SBR in Indiana.
I've had one of the carbon AR's awhile back it was a great shooting rifle. Really light. It was really loud though. Mine had a compensator and not a flash hider. I don't know if that made the differance in noise.
Me and my grandpa was chasing a wild dog though his woods. It was really tight with trees and brush really close to each other. I never could get a shot due to it being so tight. I don't see how people do it indoors. I would think a submachine gun or pistol would be the way to go.
What does Tori think about this new job venture your considering? I know I wouldn't like it. Just be careful, sweetie.
Traci
She's not too thrilled by any means. I've been looking at AR's, possibly another Sidearm and Level III Vests. This guy really means buisness. He's talking full dress, ready to roll.
I've been trying to lose a little weight, and brushing up on my spanish.
I think if it gets really rolling, he's mentioned sending us to CQB and Tactical Rifle/Pistol training. A friend of mine was a Marine and went through Sniper school. I'll mention his name at our meeting this weekend. Also, my brother is getting ready to graduate with a degree in Law Enforcement. It'd be nice to have him on the team.
I'm really excited. It sounds like it would be a lot of fun. If he will front the extra $200, I may go with the 11.5" or Carbon 15 with the 7.5".
We'll see what the future holds. He wants to work into it slow and has a filing cabinet full of warrants at the moment. He's just too busy with his other buisness to carry them out.
He was in a CT unit from 76-96 and has been doing this since. He's an adrenaline Junkie he says. I've ran a few 4473's on him, he must have done quite a bit because I talk to a couple big wigs at the FBI NICS.0 -
Hey sweetie,[:p] The carbon fifteen maybe too light, especially if you have to breech a door or cold cock your assailant. I would go with the 11.5" barrel w/ 5" flash suppressor and one of these entry stocks.
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=24960&title=M4 SOCOM STOCK0 -
quote:Originally posted by sarge_3ad
Hey sweetie,[:p] The carbon fifteen maybe too light, especially if you have to breech a door or cold cock your assailant. I would go with the 11.5" barrel w/ 5" flash suppressor and one of these entry stocks.
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=24960&title=M4 SOCOM STOCK
This would be too light?
http://www.bushmaster.com/catalog_carbon15_AZ-C15BMP21S.asp0 -
quote:Originally posted by sarge_3ad
Hey sweetie,[:p]
Go find your own sweetie BEEEEOTCH.[:(!][:(!] J/K0 -
quote:Originally posted by Cutiegirlracing
quote:Originally posted by sarge_3ad
Hey sweetie,[:p]
Go find your own sweetie BEEEEOTCH.[:(!][:(!] J/K
Yeah!
What do you think of this?
http://www.bushmaster.com/catalog_carbon15_AZ-C15M4PRE.asp
Has iron sights, but easy to slap a holo sight on.0 -
quote:Originally posted by cubslover
quote:Originally posted by sarge_3ad
Hey sweetie,[:p] The carbon fifteen maybe too light, especially if you have to breech a door or cold cock your assailant. I would go with the 11.5" barrel w/ 5" flash suppressor and one of these entry stocks.
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=24960&title=M4 SOCOM STOCK
This would be too light?
http://www.bushmaster.com/catalog_carbon15_AZ-C15BMP21S.asp
That one might not be to bad, but when you said carbon I thought maybe you were refering to one of these.
http://www.bushmaster.com/catalog_carbon15_AZ-C15R97S.asp
I got one of those for a friend. Thought I was going to send it through the ceiling when I first lifted it, because it was so light.0 -
i was under the impression that an ar 15 with a short barrel (less then 16")was to be listed as a pistol and ok to own as long as you had and listed it on a pistol permit . 0 -
quote:Originally posted by hdwrench
i was under the impression that an ar 15 with a short barrel (less then 16")was to be listed as a pistol and ok to own as long as you had and listed it on a pistol permit .
As long as the "Barrel extension" or "flash suppressor" is weld on and creates a total length of 16 inchs you are OK, and kinder lovers works for a gunshop?
IMHO barrel length should not be a consideration under the law, nor should there be legal distinctions like "pistol" and "rifle"[B)]0 -
quote:Originally posted by hdwrench
i was under the impression that an ar 15 with a short barrel (less then 16")was to be listed as a pistol and ok to own as long as you had and listed it on a pistol permit .
not exactly barrel length has to be under a certain amount, i believe 10" there can not be a forward verticle gip, and it can not have a stock to be considered a pistol. AR does come in a pistol form bu IMHO its pretty dumb, spend the extra 200 dollars and get a SBR permit. you want the stock.
Club,
If you go with a shorter barrel don't get the 5.5 flash suppressor it looks cool but helps nothing. you lose velocity because it is still a short barrel and you don't gain mobility because with the flash hider your still totalling 16".
If my life depended on it I would(and I do) have a short barrel 11" 6.8SPC ar with the magpul UBR colapsable stock. its short to get around rooms, the stock is heavy if you ever have to skull stroke someone or breech a door(although a door breech would be tough with any SBR) and the 6.8SPC was made for short barrels so velocity and BC is still high. down side? ammo is costly, but whats your life worth?
just my .020 -
Rocker river arms makes some killer AR-15 pistols. www.rockriverarms.com I love mine. A year from now they will be illegal. Get anything you are going to get now. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by sarge_3ad
Hey sweetie,[:p] The carbon fifteen maybe too light, especially if you have to breech a door or cold cock your assailant. I would go with the 11.5" barrel w/ 5" flash suppressor and one of these entry stocks.
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=24960&title=M4 SOCOM STOCK
Hitting someone with a loaded, safety off AR is just pure genius [:o)]0 -
For giggles, have you considered a Tromix converted Saiga in 12 or 20 gauge? 0
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