On the subject of eligibility to be President
The Constitution says:
quote:ARTICLE II. SECTION 1.
No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.
The term "natural born Citizen" has never been clearly defined. Most people think it means anyone born on United States soil or born to parents who are U. S. Citizens, but there is also the opinion that it means born on United States soil ONLY.
John McCain was born in the Panama Cannel Zone when it was leased by the United States. I don't think McCain has much of a chance of being elected, but if he is I will be surprised if this isn't tested in court. I'm pretty sure the Supreme Court would find he is a "natural born Citizen", but maybe that's our last chance loophole. If he were elected and then disqualified, his vice-President would take office.
quote:ARTICLE II. SECTION 1.
No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.
The term "natural born Citizen" has never been clearly defined. Most people think it means anyone born on United States soil or born to parents who are U. S. Citizens, but there is also the opinion that it means born on United States soil ONLY.
John McCain was born in the Panama Cannel Zone when it was leased by the United States. I don't think McCain has much of a chance of being elected, but if he is I will be surprised if this isn't tested in court. I'm pretty sure the Supreme Court would find he is a "natural born Citizen", but maybe that's our last chance loophole. If he were elected and then disqualified, his vice-President would take office.
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Didn't know that... I suggest an IQ test with a minimum score to become President.
Where was obama born?
Where was hillary hatched ?0 -
speaking of that, who's going to be his VEEP. This could turn out to be very important. 0 -
jamesRK, i guess we can't hold them to that law, all others don't matter, specially if the constitution says so[V] 0 -
US soil would include territories such as Alaska and Hawaii before they became States, the Mariana Islands, the then Panama Canal Zone and any of several other US possessions. These types of citizenship issues have been well sorted out in courts over the past 100 years and since McCain's parents were both US citizens he has nothing to worry about...Except of course finding people to vote for him [;)]. 0 -
on the same type of subject, can hillary legally be president. the constitution only refers to the president as "he" or "him". 0 -
I have had doubts about her gender...what lies beneath the pant suit[:0] 0 -
It also says:or a Citizen of the United States, so that would cover McCain.
But it says: at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution. There are some scholars that take this to mean that this Article was only meant to affect persons running for President at THAT time when it was written, because it also says: and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.
If it is read that way, than Governor Arnold could indeed run for President. Since he is now a citizen and has lived here for more than 14 years.0 -
quote:Originally posted by jeffery.boyd
...what lies beneath the pant suit[:0]
Please, don't even put that thought in my mind [xx(].0 -
we are in need of someone with common sense
we better wake up or we wont be able to own
a gun.0 -
It may get to the point that you won't be allowed to own anything. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by P228
It also says:or a Citizen of the United States, so that would cover McCain.
But it says: at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution. There are some scholars that take this to mean that this Article was only meant to affect persons running for President at THAT time when it was written, because it also says: and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.
If it is read that way, than Governor Arnold could indeed run for President. Since he is now a citizen and has lived here for more than 14 years.
The reason it says "or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution" is because at the time the Constitution was adopted nobody was a natural born Citizen of the United States because there was no United States when they were born.0 -
quote:Originally posted by kristov
It may get to the point that you won't be allowed to own anything.
It looks like that's the long range plan.0 -
Recent history has shown us that anyone, coming from anywhere, that somehow makes to the shores of the continental United States has all the rights and privileges of it's citizens. Except for Eli?n Gonz?lez, a special case. Therefore John McCain qualifies.
Furthermore, anyone making the claim Ole John isn't really an American, should first spend five years in a butt-hole filthy, degredation filled sewer of a prison being tortured before leaping to the conclusion that J.M. doesn't make the grade. Perhaps their perspective on citizenship would change a tad bit around year three or four.[;)]0 -
quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
The Constitution says:
quote:ARTICLE II. SECTION 1.
No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.
The term "natural born Citizen" has never been clearly defined. Most people think it means anyone born on United States soil or born to parents who are U. S. Citizens, but there is also the opinion that it means born on United States soil ONLY.
John McCain was born in the Panama Cannel Zone when it was leased by the United States. I don't think McCain has much of a chance of being elected, but if he is I will be surprised if this isn't tested in court. I'm pretty sure the Supreme Court would find he is a "natural born Citizen", but maybe that's our last chance loophole. If he were elected and then disqualified, his vice-President would take office.
I think you'd be very hard pressed to make the argument that the Panama Canal Zone at the time of McCain's birth was not US soil by means of a lease.
How different is this from being born on a military base overseas? What about in an embassy?
What you are proposing is a very slippery slope. You want to disqualify two things at the same time.
1. You want to negate the birthright citizenship of people born on US soil and have that declared not to be US soil; and
2. You want to negate the birthright citizenship of people born whose parents are/were U.S. citizens.
Is this something you really want to see happen? You understand, of course, that by having SCOTUS rule on this, you'd not only affect John McCain, but you'd also affect tens of thousands, if not more, of other people all at the same time.
Look. You may not like McCain's politics and positions. Lord knows I don't. But, in the zeal to prevent him from becoming POTUS you are risking the citizenships of Joe Sixpack.
Moreover, like him or not, McCain put his life on the line for this country, was a POW, and served bravely. I, for one, have zero desire to strip someone of their citizenship who has been through a hell I can only imagine.
Take him down on his politics. Don't try to strip him of his citizenship.
That's so far below the belt I don't even know how to describe it.0 -
quote:Originally posted by daveald
speaking of that, who's going to be his VEEP. This could turn out to be very important.
That's easy to figure out. Old Guliani has had his nose up his ass since he ended his race. There's his VP, because they are 2 of a kind.0 -
quote:Originally posted by sarge_3ad
quote:Originally posted by daveald
speaking of that, who's going to be his VEEP. This could turn out to be very important.
That's easy to figure out. Old Guliani has had his nose up his ass since he ended his race. There's his VP, because they are 2 of a kind.
Not a chance. If he did, it would be the most boneheaded move he's made so far.
You choose a VP because you hope it will garner votes.
Rudy didn't win a single primary. In fact, he was battered terribly.
The smart VP choice for anyone in this race is Duncan Hunter.0 -
quote:Originally posted by sarge_3ad
[br
That's easy to figure out. Old Guliani has had his nose up his ass since he ended his race. There's his VP, because they are 2 of a kind.
Ya got that right.
quote:jeffery.boyd Posted
I have had doubts about her gender...what lies beneath the pant suit
Dude, lets don't even go there.[:0]0 -
Natural Born may bring different conotations in the future when the first Cloned human tries to run for office[:)]
Why don't we simplify things and make all the other countries into "our" states, than anyone could be president?0 -
spanielsells, I think what we have here is a failure to communicate. That's the second time I got to say that. [;)][:D]
First things first. John McCain is a hero of the first order. I hope nobody has questioned that. I have mentioned on this forum several times that I think he would have been an outstanding Admiral. I would have been proud to serve with him or under his command. I don't like his politics and don't think I could vote for him, but I like and respect John McCain.
Secondly, you can count me among "Most people think it means anyone born on United States soil or born to parents who are U. S. Citizens." It's not my idea to challenge John McCain's eligibility to hold the office of President. By the way, his citizenship would not be questioned, just his eligibility to be President by reason of "natural born Citizen".
This isn't the first time this question has come up. Barry Goldwater (I voted for him in 1964) was born in Arizona while Arizona was a U. S. Territory. He wasn't elected, but if he had been there were people prepared to challenge his qualification in court based on Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution.
George Romney was born in Mexico and ran for President in 1968. He wasn't a serious contender so there were no serious preparations to challenge him, but the question did come up.
To answer your question "How different is this from being born on a military base overseas? What about in an embassy?" None.
quote:John McCain was born in the Panama Cannel Zone when it was leased by the United States. I don't think McCain has much of a chance of being elected, but if he is I will be surprised if this isn't tested in court. I'm pretty sure the Supreme Court would find he is a "natural born Citizen", but maybe that's our last chance loophole. If he were elected and then disqualified, his vice-President would take office.
Where is anything in this quote that says I want to strip John McCain of his citizenship. You also give me credit for a few other things I have never said or implied.
This entire thread was intended to poke a little fun at all the speculation about Moscow Bill Clinton being the vice-President under some ambiguous wording in the Twenty-Second amendment. My comment about McCain's being disqualified under Article II, and being our "last chance loophole" was totally tong-in-cheek. We are screwed no matter which member of this bunch wins.
However, I was serious when I said if McCain wins the general election I will be surprised if this doesn't wind up in court.0 -
I think as long as he was not deliverd by C-section, he is OK. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by He Dog
I think as long as he was not deliverd by C-section, he is OK.
That begs the question, was anyone delivered by C-section actually born? [:D]0 -
It is clearly NOT a natural birth.[}:)][:p] 0 -
Wow...that is interesting James... 0 -
quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
spanielsells, I think what we have here is a failure to communicate. That's the second time I got to say that. [;)][:D]
First things first. John McCain is a hero of the first order. I hope nobody has questioned that. I have mentioned on this forum several times that I think he would have been an outstanding Admiral. I would have been proud to serve with him or under his command. I don't like his politics and don't think I could vote for him, but I like and respect John McCain.
Secondly, you can count me among "Most people think it means anyone born on United States soil or born to parents who are U. S. Citizens." It's not my idea to challenge John McCain's eligibility to hold the office of President. By the way, his citizenship would not be questioned, just his eligibility to be President by reason of "natural born Citizen".
This isn't the first time this question has come up. Barry Goldwater (I voted for him in 1964) was born in Arizona while Arizona was a U. S. Territory. He wasn't elected, but if he had been there were people prepared to challenge his qualification in court based on Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution.
George Romney was born in Mexico and ran for President in 1968. He wasn't a serious contender so there were no serious preparations to challenge him, but the question did come up.
To answer your question "How different is this from being born on a military base overseas? What about in an embassy?" None.
quote:John McCain was born in the Panama Cannel Zone when it was leased by the United States. I don't think McCain has much of a chance of being elected, but if he is I will be surprised if this isn't tested in court. I'm pretty sure the Supreme Court would find he is a "natural born Citizen", but maybe that's our last chance loophole. If he were elected and then disqualified, his vice-President would take office.
Where is anything in this quote that says I want to strip John McCain of his citizenship. You also give me credit for a few other things I have never said or implied.
This entire thread was intended to poke a little fun at all the speculation about Moscow Bill Clinton being the vice-President under some ambiguous wording in the Twenty-Second amendment. My comment about McCain's being disqualified under Article II, and being our "last chance loophole" was totally tong-in-cheek. We are screwed no matter which member of this bunch wins.
However, I was serious when I said if McCain wins the general election I will be surprised if this doesn't wind up in court.
James,
Sorry for the confusion. I'm just a little tired of people who attack politicians (on both sides) for stupid reasons. It isn't that it bothers me personally, but it shows a lack of maturity and makes me question whether they're too stupid to think up real reasons to not like someone based upon their positions and actions. I have no problem attacking McCain, Obama, Clinton, Romney et al on the ISSUES. There's enough real things to debate without debating the idiotic.
I, like you, don't like the guy. However, I respect the hell out of him. I might have to vote for him if there's a close race in Colorado and it means not having the Hildebeast or Obama taking my state. Otherwise, I'll not vote for him (I'll vote because there are other issues and candidates that are important to me).
I believe the only course of action now is to vote for true conservatives who are running for Congress, the Senate and my state legislature. Yes, there are some.
Unfortunately, Tom Tancredo has given up his seat. I have no clue yet about the people trying to fill it. The good news is that this is a VERY conservative district where liberals have little chance of getting elected (although they do run). But, you can bet I'll be doing my research before I vote.0 -
I knew this question would come up. Sometimes I scare myself. They were talking about this on FOX News this afternoon. Evidently some Democrats are making preparations to challenge McCain's eligibility and he hasn't even nailed down the nomination yet.
Judge Andrew Napolitano said in his opinion if the question comes up, McCain doesn't have a problem because even being born outside to contiguous United States, both parents were U. S. Citizens. He did add that the question has never been settled though.0 -
quote:Originally posted by jeffery.boyd
I have had doubts about her gender...what lies beneath the pant suit[:0]
speaking of her--Howard Stern had Gennifer Flowers on today and she said that Bill told her that Hillary had been with more women than he had-i just cracked up.0 -
Wasn't Obama born in Hawaii? Was Hawaii a state when he was born? Is Hawaii in the Continental U.S.? These questions must be answered![}:)] 0 -
Hi Rip- Hawaii became state in 59, Obama born in 61. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by select-fire
Didn't know that... I suggest an IQ test with a minimum score to become President.
Where was obama born?
Where was hillary hatched ?
By your measurement, Jimmy Carter would have been SUPREMELY qualified.0 -
quote:Originally posted by 11b6r
Hi Rip- Hawaii became state in 59, Obama born in 61.
Yes, OK, but that's too close for comfort. His father wasn't an American, so Obama is only half citizen. Shouldn't the newspapers be reporting on this. There must be a controversy here somewhere. Oh...I forgot...Obama's a Democrat.0
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