A woman's perspective on "Mens' Range Etiquette"
This is from another forum - it speaks to something I've never seen here before/thought much about ... but now that she mentions it ... what do you think?
She wrote:
I've gotten bitten again by the shooting "bug" lately, and have been going to the range with my women's self-defense group and with my girlfriend. I've got a Colt Python, a S&W 686, and a recently-purchased Browning Buckmark.
Trouble is, occasionally guys at the range, in trying to be helpful, informative, generous, etc. have been a little too attentive. I appreciate their encouragement, and it's very cool to get to shoot a range of firearms.
But:
1. I'd sometimes like to concentrate on getting proficient with my own firearms. It's really cool that you're willing to share your own collection, but I begin to suspect a bit of adolescent "show-n-tell" mindset past a certain point. And, I've likely got limited time out there at the range.
2. I DON'T want to be touched by strangers, even in the course of being helpful. You wouldn't touch another man without asking, so extend me the same courtesy.
3. I'm here to shoot first, and converse second. I'm down with some talk, but primarily I want to shoot, not to pay attention to guys who seem to want to (occasionally persistently) engage my attention. And please--keep it general, not personal. I don't want to tell you what my profession is, nor where I live. I don't know you, remember.
4. Please don't correct my grip, stance, etc. without asking, and don't insist on your way as the only correct one whilst standing over me. That's patronizing. Your grip/stance is likely not the one true way, and I have an elbow injury that prevents full straightening of one elbow. (see don't touch me, above.)
5. In your enthusiasm, please don't slack off on your safety practices. That's not impressive, it's alarming.
Guys, fellow women, any suggestions on gracefully but firmly reducing the occurrence of these phemomena, and maintaining my boundaries? I'd like to interact with my fellow shooters without it being irksome to me, and I sure as hell don't want to be rude to them. Thanks
... she's got some good points.
[:D]
She wrote:
I've gotten bitten again by the shooting "bug" lately, and have been going to the range with my women's self-defense group and with my girlfriend. I've got a Colt Python, a S&W 686, and a recently-purchased Browning Buckmark.
Trouble is, occasionally guys at the range, in trying to be helpful, informative, generous, etc. have been a little too attentive. I appreciate their encouragement, and it's very cool to get to shoot a range of firearms.
But:
1. I'd sometimes like to concentrate on getting proficient with my own firearms. It's really cool that you're willing to share your own collection, but I begin to suspect a bit of adolescent "show-n-tell" mindset past a certain point. And, I've likely got limited time out there at the range.
2. I DON'T want to be touched by strangers, even in the course of being helpful. You wouldn't touch another man without asking, so extend me the same courtesy.
3. I'm here to shoot first, and converse second. I'm down with some talk, but primarily I want to shoot, not to pay attention to guys who seem to want to (occasionally persistently) engage my attention. And please--keep it general, not personal. I don't want to tell you what my profession is, nor where I live. I don't know you, remember.
4. Please don't correct my grip, stance, etc. without asking, and don't insist on your way as the only correct one whilst standing over me. That's patronizing. Your grip/stance is likely not the one true way, and I have an elbow injury that prevents full straightening of one elbow. (see don't touch me, above.)
5. In your enthusiasm, please don't slack off on your safety practices. That's not impressive, it's alarming.
Guys, fellow women, any suggestions on gracefully but firmly reducing the occurrence of these phemomena, and maintaining my boundaries? I'd like to interact with my fellow shooters without it being irksome to me, and I sure as hell don't want to be rude to them. Thanks
... she's got some good points.
[:D]
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I'll bet she's hot. 0 -
As Range Officer at my local Club, I've seen all that. Shooting drops by half when there is a Woman on the firing line. I've had to shoo folks away from the area behind/around the woman shooting. Especially if she is younger, and if she is dressed "up".
We have a few really good Female shooters - when they are there, the men kinda "fade away". Funny!0 -
At the ranges where I go, there are a few women who come alone, besides just saying "hi" to them (like I do to all shooters), I leave them alone (like I do all shooters).
If they ask to see what I'm shooting, that's OK too.
Courtsey and safety go hand in hand, and I try to practice it, even if Paris Hilton showed up alone (OK, I'd grovel at her feet and beg for a quickie[:p])0 -
[:I], even if Paris Hilton showed up alone (OK, I'd grovel at her feet and beg for a quickie[:p])
[/quote]
would not stop shooting for ANY of those current skankateer celeretards
however Tanya Memme[:p] or Karen Minton [meteorologist for wsbtv][:p] I'd..............I don't know what I might do, prolly just say uh, duh uh huh,er, hey[:o)]0 -
Apparently, when it comes to a lot of male shooters, the presence of a woman (particularly an attractive one, unescorted by a boyfriend or husband) turns them into a dynamic combination of Daniel Boone, Wild Bill Hickock, and Prince Charming.
My then-17-year-old niece asked me, "Why do old fat guys think they can stare at my boobs and try to talk to me, when I don't even know them?"
My answer: "Because, one, I'm not there to shoot them. Two, deep down inside, they actually believe they've got a shot and that you want them to go for it."
I never assume that anyone on the range, male or female, needs my help or wants my attention. Only if I'm seeing a very clear safety issue do I politely step in. I might, if there's a break in the shooting, ask how it's going, if I see a person having a problem (my shooting is mostly black powder, where problems are many and varied), but if they say "Fine" I leave it at that. Very few people appreciate having their weaknesses pointed out by a complete stranger offering unsolicited advice.0 -
To a lesser extent, I see this when my shooting buddy goes to range with me. She is one of my grandkids, and 11 yrs old. Some of the other shooters think that it is "cute" that a girl is shooting- and miss the fact that she is getting into a sitting stance, and slinging up, has her glasses and muffs on, and is willing to bet her allowance that she can take you for smallest group at 100 meters.[:)] Found her a shirt that says "Shoot like a Girl- IF you CAN!". With reference to the original posting- Gents- we need ALL the shooters we can get- young, old, male, female, etc. That little girl- the one over there waiting for me to spot for her- will be VOTING in another 7 years. Sure would like to have someone that understands guns and shooters go into that voting booth. Conduct that drives folks- ANY FOLKS- away from shooting hurts us in the long run. If y'all will excuse me, she has her Mossberg 44, and wants to know how long I'll be- gotta run- can't keep a lady waiting. 0 -
quote:"Why do old fat guys think they can stare at my boobs and try to talk to me, when I don't even know them?"
.... could you describe her?
There have been so many!
[:D][}:)][:D]0 -
quote:Originally posted by zipperzap
quote:"Why do old fat guys think they can stare at my boobs and try to talk to me, when I don't even know them?"
.... could you describe her?
There have been so many!
[:D][}:)][:D]
[:D][:D][:D]
I actually can ogle with the best (or worst) of them, but I try to be discreet. The only thing more pathetic than a middle-aged man obviously lusting after something in her teens or very early twenties, is when the object of lust tells him he's pathetic. The niece in question is good at that.
Also, working for a public school district, I have it always in mind that eyes will remain locked forward -- or on the floor if necessary -- while in the middle and high schools. No matter how the young women there might dress, no matter how reasonable it is to assume that they must want to be looked at -- it ain't worth getting fired.0 -
quote:The only thing more pathetic than a middle-aged man obviously lusting after something in her teens or very early twenties, is when the object of lust tells him he's pathetic.
Only ONE thing is MORE PATHETIC ... 'The only thing more pathetic than a middle-aged (1.) an OLD MAN is obviously lusting after something in her teens or very early twenties, is (2.) when she tells him he's pathetic.
Guilty of (1.) ... spared the crushing humiliation of (2.) ... so far!
[}:)]0 -
Now, see, Zip, I wasn't going to say that.... I've gathered from past posts that you're close to old enough to be my dad (I'm 45). And I was taught to respect my elders....
But I don't think you're any more pathetic than me, to be honest. At a certain age we know (or should [:I]) that, one, the lady's young enough to be our daughter (or daughter's daughter), and, two, if she ever consented to what our addled old brains are imagining, it'd kill us. We'd die happy, but it'd still kill us.
A little more back on track -- I agree 100% with 11b6r. Behavior that runs people off hurts us, in the not-so-long run. Being patronizing to "the little ladies" has got to be right at the top of the list of behavior to avoid. Particularly when, as in the case of 11b6r's granddaughter, and my niece, ever-so-gallantly offering to show the poor li'l gals how to shoot (poking and prodding the whole time to "correct their stance") is like offering to help Einstein work a math problem. Made more foolish by the fact the person being patronized is holding a loaded gun....[:D]0 -
When my wife's grandma shoots, people line up behind her to watch her shoot...but it's because she is 70 (ish) and putting a solid tight grouping on center mass with a PT1911[B)] 0 -
I let my wife handle the idiots at the range.
She deals with society's dregs for a living, so she's generally not too mindful of men's delicate egos. I've seen her get downright brutal.
Plus, she's good with a gun, so that shuts most of 'em up before they even get started.0 -
Yep - I actually agree with most fellas with daughters - I have two grown daughters - but it's sure fun to sneak a peek, now and then!
Being a 'beach person' I've gotten pretty good/sly/wiley at it.
I was actually told by a casting director a few months back that I would make a good one.
(With a straight face - laughing hysterically on the inside - I told him that it would probably not be a good idea. ... and that's a huge understatement.
... my heart wouldn't hold out for more than just a couple of casting calls. (If I wouldn't be sued, I'd take some pictures)
... and it'd just be too hard to stay ahead of the wife!
[8D]0
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