I don?t think this is Politics per se, but might b
I don't think this is Politics per se, but might be related.
How come Ebenezer Baptist Church in Atlanta, Georgia can preach politics from the pulpit and have political guest speakers (Bill Clinton this week, Barack Obama next week), while the IRS has promised that if anyone says anything from the pulpit at my poor little Baptist Church in Halifax County, Virginia which can be interpreted as political, they will bankrupt us?
I'm usually the first to say "Life isn't fair", but when we have two different sets of law for two Baptist Churches, that appears to be a genuine problem.
How come Ebenezer Baptist Church in Atlanta, Georgia can preach politics from the pulpit and have political guest speakers (Bill Clinton this week, Barack Obama next week), while the IRS has promised that if anyone says anything from the pulpit at my poor little Baptist Church in Halifax County, Virginia which can be interpreted as political, they will bankrupt us?
I'm usually the first to say "Life isn't fair", but when we have two different sets of law for two Baptist Churches, that appears to be a genuine problem.
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Well, will the folks let 'em get away with it? I bet they will. They usually don't lift a finger to stop anything. Even something as bad as the un-patriot akt. 0 -
Because politics IS a religion at black churches. You haven't figured that out yet? 0 -
Politics can be discussed from the pulpit. In fact a candidate can come in and speak to your church. But the Pastor, from the pulpit, cannot attempt to influence or guide the voters in the congregation towards any particular candidate or party. That is the part that would put a church in violation of their 501 c3 status. 0 -
Let's just taxes churches and be done with it. They want to play in the political arena? Fine. Pay the price of admission. 0 -
There will be double standards in America as long as there are people like Dick Morris:
MORRIS: I totally disagree with him about that Confederate Flag. I'm Jewish, and to me the Confederate Flag is to blacks what the Swastika is for me. It stands for slavery and oppression.
HANNITY: Do you think he made a mistake or does he help himself in South Carolina?
MORRIS: I don't know if he helps himself, but it was a morally wrong position, and I condemn it.
HANNITY: But he's saying the state should decide and we he shouldn't come in as an outsider and tell the state. That's not a viable position for you?
MORRIS: I think it's wrong. If the Germans put a Swastika in their flag, you bet I'd be talking about it.
HANNITY: You think it is the moral equivalent of Swastika? Everybody that supports that flag is then racist?
MORRIS: No, but everybody who supported it in 1861 was racist.
HANNITY: But the ones supporting it now are not. Maybe some.
MORRIS: I think that it is not what the flag represents now, it's what it represented then.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/01/huckabee_strategists_on_hannit.html0 -
quote:Originally posted by Aspen79se
Let's just taxes churches and be done with it. They want to play in the political arena? Fine. Pay the price of admission.
Either that or just get the government out of all the churches altogether.0 -
"Separation of church and state" so to speak. 0 -
We have a few radio stations that allow the publicans three hours a day to spout off about who they want elected, but they do give a few lines from the Bible every once in a while. Yup the Bates father and son team.Its the father Bates and son Bates , and .... thought i was going to get this thread poofed,didn't you, huh. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by kimi
There will be double standards in America as long as there are people like Dick Morris:
MORRIS: I totally disagree with him about that Confederate Flag. I'm Jewish, and to me the Confederate Flag is to blacks what the Swastika is for me. It stands for slavery and oppression.
HANNITY: Do you think he made a mistake or does he help himself in South Carolina?
MORRIS: I don't know if he helps himself, but it was a morally wrong position, and I condemn it.
HANNITY: But he's saying the state should decide and we he shouldn't come in as an outsider and tell the state. That's not a viable position for you?
MORRIS: I think it's wrong. If the Germans put a Swastika in their flag, you bet I'd be talking about it.
HANNITY: You think it is the moral equivalent of Swastika? Everybody that supports that flag is then racist?
MORRIS: No, but everybody who supported it in 1861 was racist.
HANNITY: But the ones supporting it now are not. Maybe some.
MORRIS: I think that it is not what the flag represents now, it's what it represented then.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/01/huckabee_strategists_on_hannit.html
Someone should tell Morris that his knowledge of American History is somewhat lacking.
Slavery didn't become a major issue in the Civil War until after it had already begun.
The principle issues of "states rights" were economic. The unfairness of the south being FORCED to sell cotton to the northern mills at cut rate prices that were below the prices they could sell it (shipping included) to Europe. And then having to pay FULL PRICE for goods MFG out of the cotton.
Countries in Europe such as England and France, were very happy to see the emerging world power (U.S.) split into 2 smaller less powerfull nations. And were leaning toward backing the south.
So the issue of slavery was brought forth as a "moral issue" to turn public opinion in Euroe against the south. Thus preventing European Govts. from openly backing the south.
Added to this is the fact that the vast majority of the southern soldiers who fought and died under the Confederate flag, were not slave owners and nothing whatsoever to gain by fighing FOR slavery. Only the "upper crust" of the south could afford slaves.0 -
quote:Originally posted by sav99
Politics can be discussed from the pulpit. In fact a candidate can come in and speak to your church. But the Pastor, from the pulpit, cannot attempt to influence or guide the voters in the congregation towards any particular candidate or party. That is the part that would put a church in violation of their 501 c3 status.
Once again, a double standard. Pastors and preachers at black churches regularly, almost compulsively, preach politics and endorse candidates from the pulpit on a non-stop basis.0 -
A couple of "white" churches have gotten into trouble around here for excessive politicking. It's not just "black" churches as you suggest.
They do have to walk a fine line. I'm sure many step over the line sometimes but I doubt that any particular race or denomination has a monopoly on getting too political.0 -
quote:Originally posted by SaxonPig
I'm sure many step over the line sometimes but I doubt that any particular race or denomination has a monopoly on getting too political.I would tend to agree with you regarding both black and white churches getting political. However, the Ebenezer Baptist Church and a few others are very overt about it and nothing seems to happen!0 -
"...the IRS has promised that if anyone says anything from the pulpit at my poor little Baptist Church in Halifax County, Virginia which can be interpreted as political, they will bankrupt us?"
Sounds a little extreme. Exactly how, and to whom, did they convey this threat??0 -
90% of federal prosecutors in America are liberals who want to be politicians. They need to make a name for themselves in order to gain publicity for their election. No liberal wants to prosecute other liberals. They would rather sue gun makers or big "evil" corporations. 0 -
James,
We all know the reason, we just don't want to believe it's true.
Danny0 -
quote:Originally posted by SaxonPig
A couple of "white" churches have gotten into trouble around here for excessive politicking. It's not just "black" churches as you suggest.
They do have to walk a fine line. I'm sure many step over the line sometimes but I doubt that any particular race or denomination has a monopoly on getting too political.
Saxon, I'm not suggesting just "black" churches get into excessive politicking. I am suggesting there is selective enforcement by the IRS. Ebenezer Baptist Church happens to be a majority black church and it is also the church which is in the news most often for being involved in politics.
I don't think the IRS should come down on Ebenezer Baptist Church. I don't think the IRS should have the authority to come down on any church. The power to regulate and tax is hardly "Separation of Church and State". According to the IRS, separation of church and state is a one way street. Churches can't get involved in politics, but the government can get involved in church business.
In my opinion churches shouldn't be very interested in politics, but it's not the government's place to tell a church what they may or may not do about anything. Regulating the behavior of a church should not be a government function.
quote:Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
IRS 501(c)(3) is the best argument I've heard yet for the "Fair Tax". I don't believe for an instant the "Fair Tax" will work as advertised, but if there is any possibility it will rid us of the IRS, it's worth a shot.0 -
quote:Originally posted by SaxonPig
A couple of "white" churches have gotten into trouble around here for excessive politicking. It's not just "black" churches as you suggest.
They do have to walk a fine line. I'm sure many step over the line sometimes but I doubt that any particular race or denomination has a monopoly on getting too political.
you've just confirmed our argument: all else being equal, a black church will not be punished or even investigated for doing the exact same things, and indeed, much more egregious or blatant things, as a white church.0 -
On the other hand, every time I turn on the news, they are talking about how important the "evangelical" vote is to determining the Republican nominee. No doubt, nobody in a white church in South Carolina has discussed politics recently. Surely, no white men in SC are talking politics on church property, right? Y'all must know. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by woodshermit
On the other hand, every time I turn on the news, they are talking about how important the "evangelical" vote is to determining the Republican nominee. No doubt, nobody in a white church in South Carolina has discussed politics recently. Surely, no white men in SC are talking politics on church property, right? Y'all must know.
the prime difference being that it's not spouted from the pulpit as an explicity and blatantly "vote for candidate X because he's promised to give black folks more money."0 -
quote:Originally posted by woodshermit
On the other hand, every time I turn on the news, they are talking about how important the "evangelical" vote is to determining the Republican nominee. No doubt, nobody in a white church in South Carolina has discussed politics recently. Surely, no white men in SC are talking politics on church property, right? Y'all must know.
As a matter of fact, now that you mention it, I've never heard anybody discussing politics at my church, but I can't speak for South Carolina. I expect most of them know which politician is closest to what they want without the preacher having to tell them.
That's not my point though. We live in a country which claims to have "Separation of Church and State", but the state (U. S. IRS) has the authority to regulate churches. If churches don't abide by the regulation, the state has the authority to tax churches.
I think we should either have separation of church and state and continue to make that claim, or we should continue with regulation and taxes on churches and stop claiming separation of church and state. Just asking for a little consistency.0
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