Parable of the White man & the Indian
I was at a gathering a couple of years back having an interesting conversation with a Psychologist gentleman that I met there. after discussing psychology in depth for a time he was surprised to discover that I was a Christian. I asked him why. He said I struck him as far to intelligent for that sort of thing. He also warned me not to try to convince him that my beliefs were true. That he already knew that I was misinformed. I told him that I wouldn't try to convince him. Surprised, he then asked if I weren't obligated to. I told him that clearly his mind was made up. Then I shared with him this story. I made it up as I went. This story only to answers the question of why I would not try to convince him of anything. It was not an attempt to convince, it only outlined the reason why I wouldn't. After I finished telling it, he said to me with a smile, "I'm that Indian".
Long, long ago when the first Europeans came to the new world, a white man walked up to an Indian. In his hand the white man held a bottle filled with a clear liquid. He asked the Indian if he had ever heard of alcohol? The Indian asked him what it was. The European explained that if you drink it, you will become intoxicated. The Indian said "so according to your belief system, if I drink this I will somehow feel different?" The white man had experienced this alcohol several times. He explained to his new friend that it's not so much a belief, as much as just what happens. The Indian answered him saying "It looks like water to me", "I don't share your religious belief". He went on to explain to the his white friend that what he believes regarding this water, is just something that he read in a book, or perhaps just what he was told as a young child. At best it was speculation.
The man from Europe has experienced first hand, many times what alcohol does. He remembers clearly his first time experiencing it. So again he explains the effects of the contents of his bottle, he tells in detail what it is and what it does. The Indian then asks again "so your religion teaches that this clear liquid somehow has these strange properties, that will somehow effect me as you describe?" The Indian man explains that the fairy tale and myth that the white is talking about is just foolishness. He goes on to enlighten his friend, explaining that these superstitions were only invented by powerful men to control them. He assures him, that what he speaks of having experienced, is only imagined, only make believe. It's just religion and can't be real. The Indian man simply does not believe.
Well the white man is perplexed by this. Why would the other man keep referring to what he is experiencing as a belief or opinion? To convince his friend he simply offers him some of the liquid that is in the bottle. He says "here, try it for yourself." At this, the Indian man says "if this water were really what you say it is, I would already know about it myself. I have never experienced it, so it cannot be true" He tells him that he is not willing to try it. He explained that he knows without trying it, that it is just an ancient made up story the white man has bought into, merely a religion made up by men. With a laugh the Indian suggests that his friend open his mind and leave behind his childish beliefs. The Indian then walks away feeling pretty good that he was able to explain to the white man that he been brainwashed by this religious belief of alcohol having an effect on people.
Now there stands the European man somewhat perplexed. Why didn't his friend believe him? Or at least try it for himself? He then asked, "could it be possible that the Indian was right?" He wondered to himself, have I only imagined that this liquor intoxicates? "what about the experiences that I have had with it?" Obviously no one could just imagine drinking alcohol being intoxicated time and time again. The Indian man had never experienced it. And he was not willing to try it. The white man concluded that the Indian was speaking from lack of experience, where he himself was speaking with experience. He thought for a moment who would be the better witness. One who knows, or one who by his own admission doesn't know.
There are only four possibilities here, one the white man is a liar. Two he is insane. Three, was just imagining being drunk. Or four, he was telling the Indian the truth based on personal experience.
Long, long ago when the first Europeans came to the new world, a white man walked up to an Indian. In his hand the white man held a bottle filled with a clear liquid. He asked the Indian if he had ever heard of alcohol? The Indian asked him what it was. The European explained that if you drink it, you will become intoxicated. The Indian said "so according to your belief system, if I drink this I will somehow feel different?" The white man had experienced this alcohol several times. He explained to his new friend that it's not so much a belief, as much as just what happens. The Indian answered him saying "It looks like water to me", "I don't share your religious belief". He went on to explain to the his white friend that what he believes regarding this water, is just something that he read in a book, or perhaps just what he was told as a young child. At best it was speculation.
The man from Europe has experienced first hand, many times what alcohol does. He remembers clearly his first time experiencing it. So again he explains the effects of the contents of his bottle, he tells in detail what it is and what it does. The Indian then asks again "so your religion teaches that this clear liquid somehow has these strange properties, that will somehow effect me as you describe?" The Indian man explains that the fairy tale and myth that the white is talking about is just foolishness. He goes on to enlighten his friend, explaining that these superstitions were only invented by powerful men to control them. He assures him, that what he speaks of having experienced, is only imagined, only make believe. It's just religion and can't be real. The Indian man simply does not believe.
Well the white man is perplexed by this. Why would the other man keep referring to what he is experiencing as a belief or opinion? To convince his friend he simply offers him some of the liquid that is in the bottle. He says "here, try it for yourself." At this, the Indian man says "if this water were really what you say it is, I would already know about it myself. I have never experienced it, so it cannot be true" He tells him that he is not willing to try it. He explained that he knows without trying it, that it is just an ancient made up story the white man has bought into, merely a religion made up by men. With a laugh the Indian suggests that his friend open his mind and leave behind his childish beliefs. The Indian then walks away feeling pretty good that he was able to explain to the white man that he been brainwashed by this religious belief of alcohol having an effect on people.
Now there stands the European man somewhat perplexed. Why didn't his friend believe him? Or at least try it for himself? He then asked, "could it be possible that the Indian was right?" He wondered to himself, have I only imagined that this liquor intoxicates? "what about the experiences that I have had with it?" Obviously no one could just imagine drinking alcohol being intoxicated time and time again. The Indian man had never experienced it. And he was not willing to try it. The white man concluded that the Indian was speaking from lack of experience, where he himself was speaking with experience. He thought for a moment who would be the better witness. One who knows, or one who by his own admission doesn't know.
There are only four possibilities here, one the white man is a liar. Two he is insane. Three, was just imagining being drunk. Or four, he was telling the Indian the truth based on personal experience.
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He's the indian, huh? Who's the intelligent one again please? Intellectuals sure can be fools. 0 -
Don't be silly, there are more possibilities, the gringo may simply be experiencing what he expects to experience which only requires autohypnotic suggestion and not insanity.
You must also consider how to understand the parable if the Indian drinks the alcohol without becomeing intoxicated. And that is where the metaphor fails. The faith required for belief comes from the man's heart, not his bottle.0 -
The white man should not worry about making the indian believe him. It is the white man's responsibility to present the truth of the clear liquid and the Indians choice to believe or not believe.
It's called an allegory.
So shall My clear liquid be that goes forth from My mouth: It shall not return to Me void.
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quote:Originally posted by jpwolf
He's the indian, huh? Who's the intelligent one again please? Intellectuals sure can be fools.
He was intelligent, and a real nice guy. We both enjoyed our conversation. I was only showing how the conversation sometimes goes.
HeDog, I see your point. But taking into consideration that the Indian gentleman took the alcohol in sufficient dosage to achieve the anticipated affects. And also assuming that an intoxicated individual actually was drunk, not just psycho symptomatically so.
*I edited my parable to include the fourth possibility as it is possible, from a psychological standpoint.0 -
Sav99 and cce1302, you're both right.
Sav99, I do not like limiting the possibilities of the white man's presentation to 3, but with the nature of his claims, that is the ultimate outcome.
cce1302, you are also correct. One cannot be forced to believe something. They must decide it one their own, based on the information provided to them. I Peter 3:15-16 says, "But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander."
All I, and other Christians, can do is present our case, without malice, and let others decide for themselves.0
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