Fairness of Tacking on Shipping Ins?
Need some feedback on the practice of offering a $25.00 shipping fee, up in the main part of a GB.com listing where it is clearly visible and then in the "fine print" at the very bottom of the listing (OK it was in red) add the fact that the seller "offers" insurance on the firearm for $1.00 per $100.00 of value.
When browsing several similar firearm listings, most people (I believe, I do anyway) don't take the time to read each and every single thing offered in fine print at the bottom of the listing. I purchased a handgun and the shipping was listed at a plain $25.00. But when I get that automated email from the seller in reaction to my winning bid, it mentions to add $3.00 for the insurance becausse the seller is not responsible for lost or damaged goods. And I go back to the listing and sure enough, in red small print at the bottom of the listing that fact is stated.
So,. here are my questions:
#1, I have always felt that whether I buy in a store, from a friend or over the internet, until that item is safely delivered, undamaged, into my hands, then that item is 100% the responsibility of the seller in case it gets lost or damaged. I don't think I should have to calculate any extra to give that seller for insurance. I know it is a tiny amount, but it is the principal involved.
#2. If people here say it IS fair for the seller to tack on insurance, then why can't I tack on insurance (reduced his payment by $3.00 to pay for it) for the money order I am sending out to him?
#3. For people who say I should have to pay the seller insurance, what about this scenerio? Say I drive to the seller's store, after having sent in the moey order to pay for the gun , to physically pickup the gun. Say after I arrive and a store clerk, (or the seller) is coming from the storeroom with my already paid for gun, the clerk accidently drops the gun and the hammer spur breaks off. What if the seller said, "well, you don't have any insurance on the gun, so you wil have to pay to repair it." Wouldn't everyone agree that would be unfair to me, the buyer? But isn't that very similar to the situation I am already facing? I mean, the seller choses the shipping company, is the one who packs the firearm yet I have to pay the insurance on top of the already listed $25.00 fee? It is a small amount but it doesn't seem fair to me.
Would like to hear some opinions, especially from dealers. Thanks.
When browsing several similar firearm listings, most people (I believe, I do anyway) don't take the time to read each and every single thing offered in fine print at the bottom of the listing. I purchased a handgun and the shipping was listed at a plain $25.00. But when I get that automated email from the seller in reaction to my winning bid, it mentions to add $3.00 for the insurance becausse the seller is not responsible for lost or damaged goods. And I go back to the listing and sure enough, in red small print at the bottom of the listing that fact is stated.
So,. here are my questions:
#1, I have always felt that whether I buy in a store, from a friend or over the internet, until that item is safely delivered, undamaged, into my hands, then that item is 100% the responsibility of the seller in case it gets lost or damaged. I don't think I should have to calculate any extra to give that seller for insurance. I know it is a tiny amount, but it is the principal involved.
#2. If people here say it IS fair for the seller to tack on insurance, then why can't I tack on insurance (reduced his payment by $3.00 to pay for it) for the money order I am sending out to him?
#3. For people who say I should have to pay the seller insurance, what about this scenerio? Say I drive to the seller's store, after having sent in the moey order to pay for the gun , to physically pickup the gun. Say after I arrive and a store clerk, (or the seller) is coming from the storeroom with my already paid for gun, the clerk accidently drops the gun and the hammer spur breaks off. What if the seller said, "well, you don't have any insurance on the gun, so you wil have to pay to repair it." Wouldn't everyone agree that would be unfair to me, the buyer? But isn't that very similar to the situation I am already facing? I mean, the seller choses the shipping company, is the one who packs the firearm yet I have to pay the insurance on top of the already listed $25.00 fee? It is a small amount but it doesn't seem fair to me.
Would like to hear some opinions, especially from dealers. Thanks.
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IMO shipping insurance is a reasonable must that I have no problem paying an extra couple bucks for. And when I'm selling, I usually add it free of charge for my own protection.
As IMO it is the seller/shippers responibility to DELIVER the paid for item to the hands of the buyer in as paid for condition. Or refund his money in event of ANY problem.0 -
Buy a gun from me and it will always be shipped insured no charge to the buyer. 0 -
I do not ship anything without insurance, I do not give a buyer the option of not insuring a package.
Don0 -
I agree it is the seller's responsibility to get the item to you or your ffl dealer. Give the guy a B on the feedback and say why. 0 -
"I do not ship anything without insurance, I do not give a buyer the option of not insuring a package.
Don"
Same here.0 -
It's the seller's merchandise, so in my opinion it really matters naught what anyone but the seller believes. It takes both a seller and a willing buyer to successfully end an auction, so if there is an auction that someone actually wants to bid on, they need to read and accept "ALL" of the information the seller has included in the auction page and make an informed "bid or no bid" decision. Always ask questions if there are concerns and always wait for an answer before you bid; don't leave anything to chance unless you are prepared to accept the consequences. Then if the seller tries to add charges not included in the information provided or tries to change the rules, then you have a legitimate complaint! 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Old-Colts
It's the seller's merchandise, so in my opinion it really matters naught what anyone but the seller believes. It takes both a seller and a willing buyer to successfully end an auction, so if there is an auction that someone actually wants to bid on, they need to read and accept "ALL" of the information the seller has included in the auction page and make an informed "bid or no bid" decision. Always ask questions if there are concerns and always wait for an answer before you bid; don't leave anything to chance unless you are prepared to accept the consequences. Then if the seller tries to add charges not included in the information provided or tries to change the rules, then you have a legitimate complaint!
Well said!0 -
I charge a specified rate for shipping, based on a semi-educated guess. I figure insurance into that figure, unless it is an item of low value for which I am prepared to take the loss. 0 -
Read the item description. Insurance is expensive...especially when shipping USPS. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by nunn
I charge a specified rate for shipping, based on a semi-educated guess. I figure insurance into that figure, unless it is an item of low value for which I am prepared to take the loss.
I do the same...and generally I am covered. I do have a clause in my auctions about insurance though...to cover me in those instances where I might be selling something that's a couple thousand dollars. Insurance costs can really raise the shipping rate quite a bit.0 -
The guy is just letting you know what your SHI cost is paying for. Would you rather he not mention it, and ship uninsured, and have the item disappear or arrive damaged? That's when the hassles really begin. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
And I go back to the listing and sure enough, in red small print at the bottom of the listing that fact is stated.
He clearly listed his terms, even in RED you say.
You accepted them, when you bid.
YOU didn't READ HIS TERMS,
NOW you complain about them???
The seller is free to include "most" any terms he wants.
He is free to say he gets a date with your daughter, if you win his auction.
You are free to PASS on his auction, if you do not agree with HIS PLAINLY LISTED TERMS.0 -
Our guns are always shipped with insurance INCLUDED in the price the buyer has paid for shipping and handling. We use USPS for everything so yes it does get a bit pricey. I charge $35.00 to ship just about everything. 0 -
TR,
I will start off saying this. If a seller has a paragraph of description and 10 of rules (or tiny PRINT for the rules) I will pass that auction like a hot potatoe. I belive that seller to be less than honest and up front. GB and other sites have rules, and are easy enough to follow. We don't need a pile of "rules" to make a transaction.
1. If they want you to pay for the insurance, that is THEIR sale. Just like signing up for cheap phone service that lasts for 12 month of a 24 month contract. Know the rules before bidding.
2.Your MO comes with safe guarentee from the issuing bank. You paid for that insurance in the price of the MO. Besides these costs should be thought about as part of doing business with someone. Don't like the terms, I am sure someone will sell you what you are wanting that meet your terms.
3.If the seller breaks your property, it is his responsibility to replace said property. You both are involving a third party (shipping company) to deliver your goods. The seller (in the event of damage) will make the situation right and be the one waiting on a payment from the shipping company.
If you did a FTF transfer, you wouldn't expect the seller to pay for damages to your property if you got in a wreck on the way home would you? There is no difference in that respect from a FTF and shipping something. Once out of the sellers hands, you can't expect him to know or control what someone else does with your property. Best to purchase the insurance and have a gaurentee.0 -
quote:Originally posted by ECC
Read the item description. Insurance is expensive...especially when shipping USPS.
We are not talking "expensive". We are talking $3.00. And if anyone thinks that $3.00 is not worthing worrying abouts, then why shouldn't I then claim that the seller shouldn't have "worried" about it and made it a seperate part of the sale?0 -
quote:Originally posted by pickenup
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
And I go back to the listing and sure enough, in red small print at the bottom of the listing that fact is stated.
He clearly listed his terms, even in RED you say.
You accepted them, when you bid.
YOU didn't READ HIS TERMS,
NOW you complain about them???
The seller is free to include "most" any terms he wants.
He is free to say he gets a date with your daughter, if you win his auction.
You are free to PASS on his auction, if you do not agree with HIS PLAINLY LISTED TERMS.
Geez, pickenup, I am not yet complaning. I am asking opinions about this for future reference. On this particular listing, the seller (apparently trying to cover everything) did post a tremendous amount of information. When such a listing comes down to being almost the same as reading a home sale contract, I think many people here (including you) might just miss something like the $3.00 insurance fee.0 -
quote:Originally posted by freemind
TR,
I will start off saying this. If a seller has a paragraph of description and 10 of rules (or tiny PRINT for the rules) I will pass that auction like a hot potatoe. I belive that seller to be less than honest and up front. GB and other sites have rules, and are easy enough to follow. We don't need a pile of "rules" to make a transaction.
1. If they want you to pay for the insurance, that is THEIR sale. Just like signing up for cheap phone service that lasts for 12 month of a 24 month contract. Know the rules before bidding.
2.Your MO comes with safe guarentee from the issuing bank. You paid for that insurance in the price of the MO. Besides these costs should be thought about as part of doing business with someone. Don't like the terms, I am sure someone will sell you what you are wanting that meet your terms.
3.If the seller breaks your property, it is his responsibility to replace said property. You both are involving a third party (shipping company) to deliver your goods. The seller (in the event of damage) will make the situation right and be the one waiting on a payment from the shipping company.
If you did a FTF transfer, you wouldn't expect the seller to pay for damages to your property if you got in a wreck on the way home would you? There is no difference in that respect from a FTF and shipping something. Once out of the sellers hands, you can't expect him to know or control what someone else does with your property. Best to purchase the insurance and have a gaurentee.
Well said and pretty logical above.
But I still think that, to keep things reasonabley simple and avoid GB.com listings getting as complicated as a contract for buying/selling a house, things should be lumped together. Things like ALL THE SHIPPING CHARGES. I mean, does the seller really think that I don't care if the gun gets lost or damaged in transit and that I will not CARE if the package is insured or not? Of course not. So in the standard part of the listing where it mentions shipping costs, he should have said "buyer pays insurance" see details below. That way most EVERYTHING is up front. The selling cost of the firearm and the shipping costs. NOTHING involving money is left out.
It is just not right or fair to slip even a tiny charge in at the very bottom of the listing in the tiny (yes even red) print.
There. Now, Pickenup, I am complaining.0 -
I charge $25.00 to ship any long gun and always insure it for this $25.00 flat fee. I have to drive 40 miles to the UPS terminal to ship at $3.00 per gallon getting only 11.8 miles per gallon on the truck. UPS insurance per 100 is dirt cheap and I would sure want to deal with them on any claim rather than the postal service. The postal service insurance cost is too high. When all is said and done the $25.00 is always spent and then a little sometimes depending upon the location. You can track the shipment easily too. 0 -
Shipping and insurance costs are are easy to calculate. A seller can calculate the cost of shipping and insurance, include both in the shipping cost, and require ALL buyers to pay for the insurance. Some buyers will like this others won't. A seller can also calculate the shipping costs and insurance costs separately. Some buyers will choose insurance others won't. All buyers would get to choose what services they want. The only problems arise when either the seller is not clear on the terms in the listing or the buyer dosn't read the auction terms. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
Well said and pretty logical above.
But I still think that, to keep things reasonabley simple and avoid GB.com listings getting as complicated as a contract for buying/selling a house, things should be lumped together. Things like ALL THE SHIPPING CHARGES. I mean, does the seller really think that I don't care if the gun gets lost or damaged in transit and that I will not CARE if the package is insured or not? Of course not. So in the standard part of the listing where it mentions shipping costs, he should have said "buyer pays insurance" see details below. That way most EVERYTHING is up front. The selling cost of the firearm and the shipping costs. NOTHING involving money is left out.
It is just not right or fair to slip even a tiny charge in at the very bottom of the listing in the tiny (yes even red) print.
There. Now, Pickenup, I am complaining.
I agree. Really, insurance should be a part allready figured in like some sellers here do. Why would a dollar or two be worth quibbling over? Sellers should just add the cost of insurance to shipping charges and stop the silly dollar this, dollar that game.0 -
quote:Originally posted by freemind
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
Well said and pretty logical above.
But I still think that, to keep things reasonabley simple and avoid GB.com listings getting as complicated as a contract for buying/selling a house, things should be lumped together. Things like ALL THE SHIPPING CHARGES. I mean, does the seller really think that I don't care if the gun gets lost or damaged in transit and that I will not CARE if the package is insured or not? Of course not. So in the standard part of the listing where it mentions shipping costs, he should have said "buyer pays insurance" see details below. That way most EVERYTHING is up front. The selling cost of the firearm and the shipping costs. NOTHING involving money is left out.
It is just not right or fair to slip even a tiny charge in at the very bottom of the listing in the tiny (yes even red) print.
There. Now, Pickenup, I am complaining.
I agree. Really, insurance should be a part allready figured in like some sellers here do. Why would a dollar or two be worth quibbling over? Sellers should just add the cost of insurance to shipping charges and stop the silly dollar this, dollar that game.
Figured in? Sometimes you can't, especially on an auction... so you post a shipping price and once the auction is over you as a seller can offer the buyer insurance... insurance isn't free, why shouldn't the buyer pay for it if he/she wants it? I just had a piece here sell for about $1k over what I listed it at to start... that's an EXTRA $12 insurance using USPS.0 -
quote:Originally posted by vicg1
quote:Originally posted by freemind
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
Well said and pretty logical above.
But I still think that, to keep things reasonabley simple and avoid GB.com listings getting as complicated as a contract for buying/selling a house, things should be lumped together. Things like ALL THE SHIPPING CHARGES. I mean, does the seller really think that I don't care if the gun gets lost or damaged in transit and that I will not CARE if the package is insured or not? Of course not. So in the standard part of the listing where it mentions shipping costs, he should have said "buyer pays insurance" see details below. That way most EVERYTHING is up front. The selling cost of the firearm and the shipping costs. NOTHING involving money is left out.
It is just not right or fair to slip even a tiny charge in at the very bottom of the listing in the tiny (yes even red) print.
There. Now, Pickenup, I am complaining.
I agree. Really, insurance should be a part allready figured in like some sellers here do. Why would a dollar or two be worth quibbling over? Sellers should just add the cost of insurance to shipping charges and stop the silly dollar this, dollar that game.
Figured in? Sometimes you can't, especially on an auction... so you post a shipping price and once the auction is over you as a seller can offer the buyer insurance... insurance isn't free, why shouldn't the buyer pay for it if he/she wants it? I just had a piece here sell for about $1k over what I listed it at to start... that's an EXTRA $12 insurance using USPS.
And you had no idea it might go that high?0 -
quote:Originally posted by dongizmo
quote:Originally posted by vicg1
quote:Originally posted by freemind
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
Well said and pretty logical above.
But I still think that, to keep things reasonabley simple and avoid GB.com listings getting as complicated as a contract for buying/selling a house, things should be lumped together. Things like ALL THE SHIPPING CHARGES. I mean, does the seller really think that I don't care if the gun gets lost or damaged in transit and that I will not CARE if the package is insured or not? Of course not. So in the standard part of the listing where it mentions shipping costs, he should have said "buyer pays insurance" see details below. That way most EVERYTHING is up front. The selling cost of the firearm and the shipping costs. NOTHING involving money is left out.
It is just not right or fair to slip even a tiny charge in at the very bottom of the listing in the tiny (yes even red) print.
There. Now, Pickenup, I am complaining.
I agree. Really, insurance should be a part allready figured in like some sellers here do. Why would a dollar or two be worth quibbling over? Sellers should just add the cost of insurance to shipping charges and stop the silly dollar this, dollar that game.
Figured in? Sometimes you can't, especially on an auction... so you post a shipping price and once the auction is over you as a seller can offer the buyer insurance... insurance isn't free, why shouldn't the buyer pay for it if he/she wants it? I just had a piece here sell for about $1k over what I listed it at to start... that's an EXTRA $12 insurance using USPS.
And you had no idea it might go that high?
Idea or not, if it didn't go that high would it have been fair of me to assume I would have to spend an additional $12 and then boost my posted shipping by $12?
The buyer decides. It can't be any simpler than that.0 -
quote:Originally posted by vicg1
quote:Originally posted by dongizmo
quote:Originally posted by vicg1
quote:Originally posted by freemind
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
Well said and pretty logical above.
But I still think that, to keep things reasonabley simple and avoid GB.com listings getting as complicated as a contract for buying/selling a house, things should be lumped together. Things like ALL THE SHIPPING CHARGES. I mean, does the seller really think that I don't care if the gun gets lost or damaged in transit and that I will not CARE if the package is insured or not? Of course not. So in the standard part of the listing where it mentions shipping costs, he should have said "buyer pays insurance" see details below. That way most EVERYTHING is up front. The selling cost of the firearm and the shipping costs. NOTHING involving money is left out.
It is just not right or fair to slip even a tiny charge in at the very bottom of the listing in the tiny (yes even red) print.
There. Now, Pickenup, I am complaining.
I agree. Really, insurance should be a part allready figured in like some sellers here do. Why would a dollar or two be worth quibbling over? Sellers should just add the cost of insurance to shipping charges and stop the silly dollar this, dollar that game.
Figured in? Sometimes you can't, especially on an auction... so you post a shipping price and once the auction is over you as a seller can offer the buyer insurance... insurance isn't free, why shouldn't the buyer pay for it if he/she wants it? I just had a piece here sell for about $1k over what I listed it at to start... that's an EXTRA $12 insurance using USPS.
And you had no idea it might go that high?
Idea or not, if it didn't go that high would it have been fair of me to assume I would have to spend an additional $12 and then boost my posted shipping by $12?
The buyer decides. It can't be any simpler than that.
Heh heh heh,
If you can't make a better guess at what your shipping costs will be, perhaps you are in the wrong business......0 -
quote:Originally posted by dongizmo
quote:Originally posted by vicg1
quote:Originally posted by dongizmo
quote:Originally posted by vicg1
quote:Originally posted by freemind
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
Well said and pretty logical above.
But I still think that, to keep things reasonabley simple and avoid GB.com listings getting as complicated as a contract for buying/selling a house, things should be lumped together. Things like ALL THE SHIPPING CHARGES. I mean, does the seller really think that I don't care if the gun gets lost or damaged in transit and that I will not CARE if the package is insured or not? Of course not. So in the standard part of the listing where it mentions shipping costs, he should have said "buyer pays insurance" see details below. That way most EVERYTHING is up front. The selling cost of the firearm and the shipping costs. NOTHING involving money is left out.
It is just not right or fair to slip even a tiny charge in at the very bottom of the listing in the tiny (yes even red) print.
There. Now, Pickenup, I am complaining.
I agree. Really, insurance should be a part allready figured in like some sellers here do. Why would a dollar or two be worth quibbling over? Sellers should just add the cost of insurance to shipping charges and stop the silly dollar this, dollar that game.
Figured in? Sometimes you can't, especially on an auction... so you post a shipping price and once the auction is over you as a seller can offer the buyer insurance... insurance isn't free, why shouldn't the buyer pay for it if he/she wants it? I just had a piece here sell for about $1k over what I listed it at to start... that's an EXTRA $12 insurance using USPS.
And you had no idea it might go that high?
Idea or not, if it didn't go that high would it have been fair of me to assume I would have to spend an additional $12 and then boost my posted shipping by $12?
The buyer decides. It can't be any simpler than that.
Heh heh heh,
If you can't make a better guess at what your shipping costs will be, perhaps you are in the wrong business......
Well you just proved yourself to be a moron...
Before an auction starts I should guess where the buyer will be and how high the bidding will go... yeah, sure.
The only thing you can do is estimate what it will cost and offer the buyer the option of paying more for additional insurance.
Or, you could list it as "actual ship costs" and then have buyers bug out when they find out the $100 pistol they bought will cost $40 to ship...
In short, you obviously haven't a clue.0 -
Heh heh heh,
Ya I don't have a clue, How many sales did you say you have?0 -
quote:Originally posted by dongizmo
Heh heh heh,
Ya I don't have a clue, How many sales did you say you have?
Oh my god... typical internet respone... "I sell more guns than you" "I have more posts than you"... get over it. The fact is the original post state the seller clearly indicated insurance would be additional if desired and the buyer is wondering what we all thought of it.
(And, if your GB seller name is the same a this forum name, I have many times more sales here than you. And I do many more locally...)0 -
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
#2. If people here say it IS fair for the seller to tack on insurance, then why can't I tack on insurance (reduced his payment by $3.00 to pay for it) for the money order I am sending out to him?
No, he is not delivering your mail, the post office is... and they will not let you insure a mailed money order.
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
#3. For people who say I should have to pay the seller insurance, what about this scenerio? Say I drive to the seller's store, after having sent in the moey order to pay for the gun , to physically pickup the gun. Say after I arrive and a store clerk, (or the seller) is coming from the storeroom with my already paid for gun, the clerk accidently drops the gun and the hammer spur breaks off. What if the seller said, "well, you don't have any insurance on the gun, so you wil have to pay to repair it." Wouldn't everyone agree that would be unfair to me, the buyer? But isn't that very similar to the situation I am already facing? I mean, the seller choses the shipping company, is the one who packs the firearm yet I have to pay the insurance on top of the already listed $25.00 fee? It is a small amount but it doesn't seem fair to me.
The employee that drops the gun is his employee. He is responsible for the damages caused by the negligent employee. That is why transfers cost money... it's part of business. You charge $25 for many transfers then someone goofs up and you end up paying out some $$$... The seller picks the shipping company but he is not the one transporting the package to you. The shipping company doesn't even guarantee their performance and the only protection from loss/theft is to pay them even MORE money to transport a package. You might as well ask why UPS, FEDEX, USPS, etc don't automatically include insurance in all of their rates.0 -
quote:Originally posted by vicg1
quote:Originally posted by dongizmo
Heh heh heh,
Ya I don't have a clue, How many sales did you say you have?
Oh my god... typical internet respone... "I sell more guns than you" "I have more posts than you"... get over it. The fact is the original post state the seller clearly indicated insurance would be additional if desired and the buyer is wondering what we all thought of it.
(And, if your GB seller name is the same a this forum name, I have many times more sales here than you. And I do many more locally...)
Really, why do you use a diffrent name here on the forum then?0 -
quote:Originally posted by dongizmo
quote:Originally posted by vicg1
quote:Originally posted by dongizmo
Heh heh heh,
Ya I don't have a clue, How many sales did you say you have?
Oh my god... typical internet respone... "I sell more guns than you" "I have more posts than you"... get over it. The fact is the original post state the seller clearly indicated insurance would be additional if desired and the buyer is wondering what we all thought of it.
(And, if your GB seller name is the same a this forum name, I have many times more sales here than you. And I do many more locally...)
Really, why do you use a diffrent name here on the forum then?
Because there is a seperate sign up for both sides of this thing and when I initially started auctions with GB they used an email address as your ID... then they changed that. And WTH does that matter?0
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